BoxRec

I see Liam Smith has posted a letter about Beterbiev and his VADA result (that I don’t understand). What do you make of it?

Edit: Beterbiev had elevated levels" of HGH (Human Growth Hormone) and testosterone but further tests were ok.



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Have you a link to it please?

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 17:57 Have you a link to it please?

https://x.com/liambeefysmith/status/174 ... 0V5TcR99OQ

i have no f@cking clue what that even means tbh

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 18:56 i have no f@cking clue what that even means tbh

Googled it and found below explanation

“On Thursday it emerged that unified light heavyweight champion Beterbiev turned in an atypical test to VADA on December 6. Samples revealed that the Russian star had "elevated levels" of HGH (Human Growth Hormone) and testosterone. This story was first broken by boxing writer Kevin Iole.

HGH and testosterone are natural hormones that are produced by the body. The reason VADA was compelled to bring these findings to the attention of all involved is because of the levels being above what would ordinarily be expected to occur naturally.

The bout is not under threat and Beterbiev has passed additional blood and urine tests that were requested by VADA.“

Oh, I thought the OP meant ‘what do you make of Liams response’.

Nothing to see here.

So because his subsequent tests were ok that’s fine ??

Everyone seems so causal about it ..

Either a tainted sample (unlikely for HGH) or he cycled off ?

Caught him at the end of a cycle I'd say in total speculation... but 99% of fighters are on it ESPECIALLY THE ONES SPEAKING LOUDEST AGAINST IT!!

You'd have to be pretty stupid not to be on it.

I always remember my old trainer when i was a kid , he used to say , champion boxers the real good champion boxers , if you were to cut them open and have a look , you would find something in there different to the rest of us mere mortals ,

Suppose what he really meant is when you test someone like Bert , its not suprising that certain natural hormones that are naturaly created are higher in an athlete , thats , faster , tougher , stronger than the rest of us .

Then again it could be the juice i don't know and would'nt even hazard a guess , what i do know is it was not illigal therfore he's innocent unless like Benn he tests illigal TWICE CASE DISMISSED

knockout wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 19:56 So because his subsequent tests were ok that’s fine ??

Everyone seems so causal about it ..

Either a tainted sample (unlikely for HGH) or he cycled off ?

Atypical does not mean the same thing as adverse and nothing in Beterbievs results were outside of what can be naturally occurring.
Of course it is possible that someone who has never failed a test is dirty but it should be clearer to people that Beterbiev has never failed a test.

In times where using PEDs are ever so advanced with specialist Doctors using their knowledge to cycle the athletes to a clear specimen. Then suggesting having to get caught twice before being seen guilty seems unfair ... but as others have said, I too think all the top guys, and a lot of the ones keen to reach the top are on some sort of illegal PED.

The Russian’s amateur career coincides with the years of allegations of state-sponsored doping. This feels like a bit of a no brainier.

leejonesjnr wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 03:17

knockout wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 19:56 So because his subsequent tests were ok that’s fine ??

Everyone seems so causal about it ..

Either a tainted sample (unlikely for HGH) or he cycled off ?

Atypical does not mean the same thing as adverse and nothing in Beterbievs results were outside of what can be naturally occurring.
Of course it is possible that someone who has never failed a test is dirty but it should be clearer to people that Beterbiev has never failed a test.

I don't know enough about these things but surely for VADA to report a spike in HGH and testosterone means something otherwise why mention it? The guy is 39 this month, I'm not sure how common it is for those things to spike as you get older but I know testosterone gradually lowers the older you get.

from what i can work out, that's why they ordered follow up tests, which found nothing to make them flag it as adverse. but then ppl will say he was managing to cover it up by then i guess...

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 04:10 from what i can work out, that's why they ordered follow up tests, which found nothing to make them flag it as adverse. but then ppl will say he was managing to cover it up by then i guess...

Yeah but I guess it indicates something wasn’t right when they tested it and it was out his system when they retested him

You wouldn’t want to exactly bet your house that he hasn’t carried a sophisticated doping regiment from his amateur years into the pros. An ageing puncher wanting to maintain his power and ability to cash in on being a world name. The odds he’s actually natural must be fairly minuscule.

i dunno anything about the follow ups though. were they just doing the same tests again, looking for the same thing? or were there different follow up tests that could give more info on whether those had been used as peds?

and what evidence would actually make them rule that hgh or test are 'adverse' rather than just atypical, and functioning as peds rather than just being produced naturally?

anyone know more about testing in a situation like this?

I think when we rely on the WBC to ‘explain’ these findings we’re staying firmly in the dark. Based in Mexico City for fecks sake!

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 05:00 i dunno anything about the follow ups though. were they just doing the same tests again? or were there follow up tests that could give more info on whether those had been used as peds?

what evidence would make them rule that hgh or test are 'adverse' rather than just atypical, and functioning as peds rather than just being produced normally?

I guess there is a normal range it should be. I’m not sure how common it is to naturally spike and then lower but guessing it’s pretty unusual. I guess a similar scenario would be someone fails a test on a breathalyser but they pass if retested the next day.

true but is that actually what happens? the tests to get more info mentioned in the vada letter are just the exact same tests, looking for the exact same thing at a different time? or can they run a different process on it to glean more info that would give better context about elevated hgh/test levels they found?

of course if i had to bet i would say bert, smith, and most world level fighters (an probably well below that level) are on various gear. combat sports is rife with peds and all sorts of sh!t for making weight

polecateddy wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 03:38 The Russian’s amateur career coincides with the years of allegations of state-sponsored doping. This feels like a bit of a no brainier.

also Beterbievs fights are never short notice - usually around 6 month minimum presumably to allow for careful planning .

At a guess you’d imagine that the figures he’s producing in vada tests for testosterone at 39 are better than some he produced in his 20’s. You never get the data though.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑18 Jan 2024, 05:10 true but is that actually what happens? the tests to get more info mentioned in the vada letter are just the exact same tests, looking for the exact same thing at a different time? or can they run a different process on it to glean more info that would give better context about elevated hgh/test levels they found?

From what I can see online the atypical result (not a pass or a fail) was in December so he was retested later that month and the start of January and they were normal at that point.

his "S&C coach" obv does his job well

I think another question that needs to be asked is how much knowledge did the Smith camp have PRIOR to the bout taking place.

If they had knowledge of it, but still accepted the fight - then my sympathy for posting after the fight is diminished and I cannot help thinking "sore losers" - if they had no knowledge of it and everything was hushed hushed on the basis of the passed follow up, then it is very very bad practice of the commissions / sanctioning bodies / promoters.