BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Jan 2024, 02:43 If you can't beat Wilder you can't beat Wlad.

Joson wrote: ↑28 Jan 2024, 08:15 Wladimir Klitschko stops Ortiz late or wins a unanimous decision. It would be a boring fight, with Wlad fighting cautiously, not throwing many punches, but still controlling the action with his long, powerful left-jab.

Ortiz - an excellent fighter in his prime - would have his moments. Tall, powerfully built, fast, nimble, and skilled, Ortiz might stun Wlad a few times. But he wouldn't land more than one punch at a time, given Klitschko's tendency to clinch when under attack.

Occasionally, Wlad would follow-up his jabs by landing power shots to Luis's head and body. He'd never score more than one, or (at most) two consecutive power punches. But given Klitschko's extraordinary strength and power, he'd still do damage.

By the 9th or 10th, Ortiz would be weakened, and Wlad might step up his attack, winning by stoppage in the final rounds. If not, he takes a wide UD. Ortiz was pretty durable, so he might survive until the final bell.

My analysis is based strictly on Wlad's abilities when he was trained by Manny Stewart. The pre-Manny Wlad vs Ortiz is another question altogether.

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑28 Jan 2024, 11:06

Joson wrote: ↑28 Jan 2024, 08:15 Wladimir Klitschko stops Ortiz late or wins a unanimous decision. It would be a boring fight, with Wlad fighting cautiously, not throwing many punches, but still controlling the action with his long, powerful left-jab.

Ortiz - an excellent fighter in his prime - would have his moments. Tall, powerfully built, fast, nimble, and skilled, Ortiz might stun Wlad a few times. But he wouldn't land more than one punch at a time, given Klitschko's tendency to clinch when under attack.

Occasionally, Wlad would follow-up his jabs by landing power shots to Luis's head and body. He'd never score more than one, or (at most) two consecutive power punches. But given Klitschko's extraordinary strength and power, he'd still do damage.

By the 9th or 10th, Ortiz would be weakened, and Wlad might step up his attack, winning by stoppage in the final rounds. If not, he takes a wide UD. Ortiz was pretty durable, so he might survive until the final bell.

My analysis is based strictly on Wlad's abilities when he was trained by Manny Stewart. The pre-Manny Wlad vs Ortiz is another question altogether.

That's a great analysis, Jason.

And since you touched on it at the end - how do you think the pre-Steward Wlad would've performed against Ortiz?

Joson wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 08:23

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑28 Jan 2024, 11:06

Joson wrote: ↑28 Jan 2024, 08:15 Wladimir Klitschko stops Ortiz late or wins a unanimous decision. It would be a boring fight, with Wlad fighting cautiously, not throwing many punches, but still controlling the action with his long, powerful left-jab.

Ortiz - an excellent fighter in his prime - would have his moments. Tall, powerfully built, fast, nimble, and skilled, Ortiz might stun Wlad a few times. But he wouldn't land more than one punch at a time, given Klitschko's tendency to clinch when under attack.

Occasionally, Wlad would follow-up his jabs by landing power shots to Luis's head and body. He'd never score more than one, or (at most) two consecutive power punches. But given Klitschko's extraordinary strength and power, he'd still do damage.

By the 9th or 10th, Ortiz would be weakened, and Wlad might step up his attack, winning by stoppage in the final rounds. If not, he takes a wide UD. Ortiz was pretty durable, so he might survive until the final bell.

My analysis is based strictly on Wlad's abilities when he was trained by Manny Stewart. The pre-Manny Wlad vs Ortiz is another question altogether.

That's a great analysis, Jason.

And since you touched on it at the end - how do you think the pre-Steward Wlad would've performed against Ortiz?

The pre-Manny version of Wladimir, almost certainly, would have beaten Ortiz. But Luis would have had a much better shot at springing an upset.

I'd give Klitschko a 75% likelihood of victory against 25% for Ortiz. By contrast, the post-2004 Wlad would have rated a 90%/95% shot at winning versus only 10%/5% for Ortiz. I'll explain why.

The younger Wladimir tended to fire lots of power punches in combination. That's why he was prone to exhausting himself. Also, if and when hurt, Wlad reacted by fighting back, leaving himself open and risking getting clipped again. He hadn't yet been taught to clinch.

Given these factors, a prime Ortiz, on his best night, might have gotten lucky against the pre-2004 Klitschko.

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 09:37

Joson wrote: ↑29 Jan 2024, 08:23

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑28 Jan 2024, 11:06

That's a great analysis, Jason.

And since you touched on it at the end - how do you think the pre-Steward Wlad would've performed against Ortiz?

The pre-Manny version of Wladimir, almost certainly, would have beaten Ortiz. But Luis would have had a much better shot at springing an upset.

I'd give Klitschko a 75% likelihood of victory against 25% for Ortiz. By contrast, the post-2004 Wlad would have rated a 90%/95% shot at winning versus only 10%/5% for Ortiz. I'll explain why.

The younger Wladimir tended to fire lots of power punches in combination. That's why he was prone to exhausting himself. Also, if and when hurt, Wlad reacted by fighting back, leaving himself open and risking getting clipped again. He hadn't yet been taught to clinch.

Given these factors, a prime Ortiz, on his best night, might have gotten lucky against the pre-2004 Klitschko.

Couldn't agree more. Good points. On another note, though, I think the pre-2004 Wlad actually had a wider arsenal. A lot of people remember the version of Wlad whose offense was restricted to jab-straight right-left hook. Pre-Steward Wlad could throw varied combinations. He was also throwing uppercuts and bodyshots (something that post-2004 Wlad doing so rarely).