Page 1 of 1
End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 20 May 2024, 06:53
by TempleSlave
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring? For the first time, since probably Klitchkos’ era (?), we have a smaller but highly skilled fighter making up for his physical shortcomings with typical boxing attributes - footwork, technique, stamina and probably a couple more. I think it’s good for the sport
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 20 May 2024, 08:29
by joshj909
Jalolov, Bakole or Hovhannisyan could be the only guys to bring back the belts to a behemoth but I don't think many of the next generation of heavyweights are particularly big either. The other younger guys in Anderson, Dubois, Kabayel, Parker, Ajagba, Gassiev, Huni, Torrez and Pero are much lighter or shorter than Fury but some are a similar size to AJ.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 20 May 2024, 09:18
by jezzamundo
Makes a mockery of Bridgerweight, which never should have existed.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 20 May 2024, 10:16
by TempleSlave
joshj909 wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 08:29
Jalolov, Bakole or Hovhannisyan could be the only guys to bring back the belts to a behemoth but I don't think many of the next generation of heavyweights are particularly big either. The other younger guys in Anderson, Dubois, Kabayel, Parker, Ajagba, Gassiev, Huni, Torrez and Pero are much lighter or shorter than Fury but some are a similar size to AJ.
I think Ajagba is 198cm which is as tall as Vlad, Wilder and AJ. Dubois is meant to be 196. Jalolov is 201 but somehow his pro career hasn’t really taken off yet for some reason. I’d be very curious of him as he looked pretty solid at the Olympics.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 20 May 2024, 21:00
by Perseus
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 23 May 2024, 16:35
by dempseyfire
TempleSlave wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 06:53
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring? For the first time, since probably Klitchkos’ era (?), we have a smaller but highly skilled fighter making up for his physical shortcomings with typical boxing attributes - footwork, technique, stamina and probably a couple more. I think it’s good for the sport
Past 20 years have featured a slew of title-holders who could've definitely made cruiser if they wanted to (some did)-Ibragimov, Haye, Chagaev, Povetkin and then you had contenders like Solis, Chambers etc. Hell Chris Arreola fought at 178 in his early 20s in the AMs. Heavyweight has a lot of pudgy guys who if they were actually in ripped, true fighting shape would be 185-210.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 04:13
by Evander
TempleSlave wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 06:53
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring? For the first time, since probably Klitchkos’ era (?), we have a smaller but highly skilled fighter making up for his physical shortcomings with typical boxing attributes - footwork, technique, stamina and probably a couple more. I think it’s good for the sport
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 05:42
by tigermoth87
TempleSlave wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 06:53
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring?
Not really true. Fury and the Klitschko brothers were big, but they were also highly skilled. The only real fighter in modern times that can be applied to is Wilder, possibly Joshua. And I suppose Valuev, but he dropped it to a Cruiserweight Haye.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 07:25
by tonyevs
tigermoth87 wrote: ↑24 May 2024, 05:42
TempleSlave wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 06:53
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring?
Not really true. Fury and the Klitschko brothers were big, but they were also highly skilled. The only real fighter in modern times that can be applied to is Wilder, possibly Joshua. And I suppose Valuev, but he dropped it to a Cruiserweight Haye.
Were Fury and the Klitschko brothers really highly skilled though?
Fury is more awkward than skilled as Ngannou and Usyk just showed.
Vitali was quite robotic but a solid unit.
Wlad whilst skilled - wasn't exactly at the level I'd say highly skilled ..
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 07:56
by Thomastearns
TempleSlave wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 06:53
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring? For the first time, since probably Klitchkos’ era (?), we have a smaller but highly skilled fighter making up for his physical shortcomings with typical boxing attributes - footwork, technique, stamina and probably a couple more. I think it’s good for the sport
Traditionally the optimum height for a HW was around 6'1" - 6'3" mostly because of the stamina issues that increase in size brings, especially in those 15 round days.
Foreman v Ali was a classic case of the bigger man running out of juice and surely it's no coincidence that Marciano won some of his most important fights late on?
For this fight some had predicted that Usyk's relentless pace and pressure would eventually get to Fury, and it did. Fury was completely exhausted by the end and although he reolcovered well there were some clear signs of decline.
Anyway it was good to see some kind of return to tradition, and unless someone proves different, it looks like 6'3" 220lbs is near optimal.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 10:12
by ironbeard
Thomastearns wrote: ↑24 May 2024, 07:56
TempleSlave wrote: ↑20 May 2024, 06:53
One additional thing I am quite pleased about regarding the outcome of Fury - Usyk is that it looks like (at least temporarily!) end of an era of the ‘behemoth’ HW champ.
How many times did we see the seemingly higher skilled boxer losing purely because he was the smaller man in the ring? For the first time, since probably Klitchkos’ era (?), we have a smaller but highly skilled fighter making up for his physical shortcomings with typical boxing attributes - footwork, technique, stamina and probably a couple more. I think it’s good for the sport
Traditionally the optimum height for a HW was around 6'1" - 6'3" mostly because of the stamina issues that increase in size brings, especially in those 15 round days.
Foreman v Ali was a classic case of the bigger man running out of juice and surely it's no coincidence that Marciano won some of his most important fights late on?
For this fight some had predicted that Usyk's relentless pace and pressure would eventually get to Fury, and it did. Fury was completely exhausted by the end and although he reolcovered well there were some clear signs of decline.
Anyway it was good to see some kind of return to tradition, and unless someone proves different, it looks like 6'3" 220lbs is near optimal.
I agree with everything but your take on Ali v Foreman. Foreman ran “out of juice” because he punched himself out, taking Ali’s bait. Foreman was tactically defeated.
In the case of Usyk v Fury the MUCH larger man was in control until the smaller man broke his nose in the 8th and beat him silly in the 9th.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 12:33
by gilgamesh
I figure we'll continue to see exceptional large Heavyweights in the future doing well, but we've also seen that there are talents that are able to compete with them even if they're outweighed by a lot.
Basically Usyk added further proof to what many of us already knew. Size isn't the one and only factor in winning a fight.
Re: End of a trend at HW?
Posted: 24 May 2024, 17:53
by KiwiRider
gilgamesh wrote: ↑24 May 2024, 12:33
I figure we'll continue to see exceptional large Heavyweights in the future doing well, but we've also seen that there are talents that are able to compete with them even if they're outweighed by a lot.
Basically Usyk added further proof to what many of us already knew. Size isn't the one and only factor in winning a fight.
True, and Joseph (actually 6'3")Parker has been quietly going about buisnes.
