BoxRec

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 15:10**

although thailand has always done the keep busy with knockover thing, they usually have had plenty of world class talent and champs to go with it. now however they are down to a single world champ, who is mid 30s as a minimumweight

perhaps more starkly, south korea used to regularly have high finishers in top am events, and multiple world champs on the run. now their boxing scene is mediocre at best, with pretty much no one remotely approaching world class.

any other countries with a shift in fortune, whether good or bad, amateur or pro? and what about the reasons for it?

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 15:56**

US amateur.

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 16:06**

indeed, 20 years without gold now, only 1 medal in paris

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 16:34**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 15:10 although thailand has always done the keep busy with knockover thing, they usually have had plenty of world class talent and champs to go with it. now however they are down to a single world champ, who is mid 30s as a minimumweight

perhaps more starkly, south korea used to regularly have high finishers in top am events, and multiple world champs on the run. now their boxing scene is mediocre at best, with pretty much no one remotely approaching world class.

any other countries with a shift in fortune, whether good or bad, amateur or pro? and what about the reasons for it?

I lived in Korea briefly 15 years ago, and it was dire even then, I think only In-Jin Chi was world level. After that, Ji-Hoon Kim had a pretty exciting run for a while, but his complete lack of defence was his undoing at world level. I think MMA is and long has been a lot bigger there.

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 17:06**

Someone said Spain's doing well in the ams, no idea

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 18:38**

handsofstone wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 17:06 Someone said Spain's doing well in the ams, no idea

Most of their stars are from an immigrant background. For some reason ethnic Spaniards just don’t seem that interested in boxing

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 18:42**

When did the Japanese scene become so successful? They have so many world champs. Was it about 10 years or so ago the Japanese boxers started producing so many word class fighters?

Posted: **19 Aug 2024, 19:34**

Personaly i think two or three things have heavilly affected boxing ,

1--- The ameteur fencing style ,, i think its definetly been stacked and swayed towards selected countrys to win medals , , since when has leaning back to avoid getting hit while you jab been a scoring punch , since when has slapping been a scoring punch , i think also thats why the yanks are not doing so well there training is more based around a pro style , and does'nt suit olympic ameteur style boxing ,

2 ----- Over the last 25 years or so promoters and managers ,have helped ruin pro boxing , by ducking diving and skipping good fights because there home boy needs to win ,, they forgot the basic rules of showing good boxing , which is , a managers job is to get his boxer the easiest fights possible for the most money possible , a promoters job is to put on the best , hardest fights possible , somewhere along the lines its all got blurred

3-- well i suppose i'll throw this one in , Womens boxing , just helps to keep purses down and bore the tits of everyone ,

All in all boxing is losing its place in world sport , its still sells but it could be a lot better , people are losing interest

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 03:42**

Once a dominant force in amateur boxing, Cuba has experienced a decline in recent years due to factors such as economic challenges and defections of top talent. Wordle Unlimited

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 08:10**

coneye wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 19:34 Personaly i think two or three things have heavilly affected boxing ,

1--- The ameteur fencing style ,, i think its definetly been stacked and swayed towards selected countrys to win medals , , since when has leaning back to avoid getting hit while you jab been a scoring punch , since when has slapping been a scoring punch , i think also thats why the yanks are not doing so well there training is more based around a pro style , and does'nt suit olympic ameteur style boxing ,

2 ----- Over the last 25 years or so promoters and managers ,have helped ruin pro boxing , by ducking diving and skipping good fights because there home boy needs to win ,, they forgot the basic rules of showing good boxing , which is , a managers job is to get his boxer the easiest fights possible for the most money possible , a promoters job is to put on the best , hardest fights possible , somewhere along the lines its all got blurred

3-- well i suppose i'll throw this one in , Womens boxing , just helps to keep purses down and bore the tits of everyone ,

All in all boxing is losing its place in world sport , its still sells but it could be a lot better , people are losing interest

Possibly UFC also has an effect. Boxing is bigger but in the younger generation MMA seems more popular. Though in an odd way I also think UFC may have helped boxing a little - as it has made combat sports more popular and most UFC fans will also be drawn to at least the big fights.

If you look at the number of boxing gyms or gyms that offer some sort of boxing training I believe they’re on the rise (not sure about actual ABA licensed clubs but there seem many more boxing gyms in London last time i checked.) A lot of fitness style training but it’s increasingly popular IMO. This I believe does raise people’s interest in boxing and can lead to more attention, certainly by ‘casual’ fans.

I think boxing is healthy. Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury and other big UK names have definitely generated interest in the UK.

Can’t speak for the USA, although Hispanic interest there creates a decent market.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 08:13**

1683140 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 03:42 Once a dominant force in amateur boxing, Cuba has experienced a decline in recent years due to factors such as economic challenges and defections of top talent. Wordle Unlimited

The decline of USA and Cuban dominance in amateur boxing especially is also due to the rest of the world upping their game and their boxing programmes. Obviously in the pros too we have the former eastern bloc fighters now turning over and turning the pro game upside down. The rest of the world has caught up with Cuba and the USA. That is all

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 08:20**

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:13
1683140 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 03:42 Once a dominant force in amateur boxing, Cuba has experienced a decline in recent years due to factors such as economic challenges and defections of top talent. Wordle Unlimited
The decline of USA and Cuban dominance in amateur boxing especially is also due to the rest of the world upping their game and their boxing programmes. Obviously in the pros too we have the former eastern bloc fighters now turning over and turning the pro game upside down. The rest of the world has caught up with Cuba and the USA. That is all

All the big Americans rather try out other sports like basketball. Boxing is long gone now in the US.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 08:21**

I guess it doesn't really count but since the fall of the Soviet Union all of the non-Russian countries such as Ukraine, other Eastern European countries and also the central Asian countries have much better pros now because they're fighting under a more specific banner. Ukraine and Poland for example seem to have a guy near the top of every division and there are a number of central Asian guys in the mix too.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 08:28**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:20
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:13
1683140 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 03:42 Once a dominant force in amateur boxing, Cuba has experienced a decline in recent years due to factors such as economic challenges and defections of top talent. Wordle Unlimited
The decline of USA and Cuban dominance in amateur boxing especially is also due to the rest of the world upping their game and their boxing programmes. Obviously in the pros too we have the former eastern bloc fighters now turning over and turning the pro game upside down. The rest of the world has caught up with Cuba and the USA. That is all
All the big Americans rather try out other sports like basketball. Boxing is long gone now in the US.

First year drafted basketball players and football players make more per year at 21 than nearly every single active American boxer makes except maybe 5 guys. Apparently Sha'Carri Richardson, the female sprinter, has signed a $15m per year broadcasting deal with ESPN. There are becoming way more favourable routes for young, athletic Americans to get more money without getting punched in the face.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 12:03**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:20
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:13
1683140 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 03:42 Once a dominant force in amateur boxing, Cuba has experienced a decline in recent years due to factors such as economic challenges and defections of top talent. Wordle Unlimited
The decline of USA and Cuban dominance in amateur boxing especially is also due to the rest of the world upping their game and their boxing programmes. Obviously in the pros too we have the former eastern bloc fighters now turning over and turning the pro game upside down. The rest of the world has caught up with Cuba and the USA. That is all
All the big Americans rather try out other sports like basketball. Boxing is long gone now in the US.

Maybe but I think a lot of that is a myth. NFL and NBA have been around for a very long time and paid huge salaries for years. The rest of the world has caught up - in programmes, training, skills, nutrition and the rest of the world has or is catching up with US average height, build and weight.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 12:23**

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 12:03
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:20
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 08:13

The decline of USA and Cuban dominance in amateur boxing especially is also due to the rest of the world upping their game and their boxing programmes. Obviously in the pros too we have the former eastern bloc fighters now turning over and turning the pro game upside down. The rest of the world has caught up with Cuba and the USA. That is all
All the big Americans rather try out other sports like basketball. Boxing is long gone now in the US.
Maybe but I think a lot of that is a myth. NFL and NBA have been around for a very long time and paid huge salaries for years. The rest of the world has caught up - in programmes, training, skills, nutrition and the rest of the world has or is catching up with US average height, build and weight.

Never really thought of it like that. Is there still lots of amateur Americans?

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 14:41**

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 18:38
handsofstone wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 17:06 Someone said Spain's doing well in the ams, no idea
Most of their stars are from an immigrant background. For some reason ethnic Spaniards just don’t seem that interested in boxing

Too busy having a kip.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 15:45**

Auckland Boxing Club has new carpets in the bar/snack area.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 16:31**

Amazed no-one has commented on the mens's results in Paris - if I'd said on the forum 12 years ago that Uzbekistan would win 5 of the 7 men's categories in the 2024 Olympics I'd have been laughed off of here (they managed just 1 bronze in London).

Place that in the context of a population of about 36-37 million, so similar to places like Poland, Morocco and Saudi Arabia, and It's an even more remarkable achievement.

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 20:20**

Deserter wrote: ↑20 Aug 2024, 16:31 Amazed no-one has commented on the mens's results in Paris - if I'd said on the forum 12 years ago that Uzbekistan would win 5 of the 7 men's categories in the 2024 Olympics I'd have been laughed off of here (they managed just 1 bronze in London).

Place that in the context of a population of about 36-37 million, so similar to places like Poland, Morocco and Saudi Arabia, and It's an even more remarkable achievement.

Political judging biased to certain styles just like years ago they changed the judging system to suit the Cubans . Now they award slaps

Posted: **20 Aug 2024, 20:24**

the uzbeks boxed really well tbf, woulda won several golds even with more a professional style of judging. dusmatov, khalmakov, and jalolov all have some nice kos in high level international bouts, and it was another uzbek (their 91kg gold medal winner) who was the closest of anyone to beating jalaolov over the last several years, seriously hurting and almost stopping him before being kod himself.

the uzbeks do have a box and move style generally, but they throw hard explosive shots, it's not the slappy tappy flicky stuff

Posted: **21 Aug 2024, 07:32**

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 18:42 When did the Japanese scene become so successful? They have so many world champs. Was it about 10 years or so ago the Japanese boxers started producing so many word class fighters?

Japan has long been a major boxing country TBF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_J ... _champions) what's changed in recent years is that the JBC have recognised the WBO and IBF (a change in the last 10 years or so), meaning they aren't just chasing WBA and WBC titles, which gives them 4 titles to fight for, and opens up more opportunities. Their amateur system (a very strong one at university level) has also developed "pro-ready" fighters, many of which faced each other in the amateurs (the likes of Tanaka, Teraji, Kyoguchi, Inoue, Ioka etc) allowing them to be moved rapidly.

Posted: **21 Aug 2024, 07:44**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 15:10 although thailand has always done the keep busy with knockover thing, they usually have had plenty of world class talent and champs to go with it. now however they are down to a single world champ, who is mid 30s as a minimumweight

perhaps more starkly, south korea used to regularly have high finishers in top am events, and multiple world champs on the run. now their boxing scene is mediocre at best, with pretty much no one remotely approaching world class.

any other countries with a shift in fortune, whether good or bad, amateur or pro? and what about the reasons for it?

The Korean scene - Money made a major issue.

The Koreans of the 70's and 80's were like the Jewish American boxers of the early 1900's, fighting for a way out of poverty, the miracle on the river Han (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_o ... ~_2016.png) lines up pretty well with when Korean boxing started to die off. With the Korean economy booming there was less of a need for boxing, add that to a spate of fighters getting shafted (badly) and a number of untimely deaths of fighters (Yo Sam Choi being a notable one) and the rise of MMA. AND the total political mess of boxing in South Korea (UK has BBBofC, Korea has KBC, KBA, KBM and I think I'm missing two).

Yeah I'm simplifying it, a lot, but money and the political mess is a major issue with Korean boxing. Thankfully it does seem like Japanese promoters (Ohashi in particular) are trying to re-build the Korean scene along with the local promoters, but it's still in it's rebuilding infancy.

Posted: **21 Aug 2024, 07:55**

Posted: **21 Aug 2024, 11:55**

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑21 Aug 2024, 07:32
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 18:42 When did the Japanese scene become so successful? They have so many world champs. Was it about 10 years or so ago the Japanese boxers started producing so many word class fighters?
Japan has long been a major boxing country TBF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_J ... _champions) what's changed in recent years is that the JBC have recognised the WBO and IBF (a change in the last 10 years or so), meaning they aren't just chasing WBA and WBC titles, which gives them 4 titles to fight for, and opens up more opportunities. Their amateur system (a very strong one at university level) has also developed "pro-ready" fighters, many of which faced each other in the amateurs (the likes of Tanaka, Teraji, Kyoguchi, Inoue, Ioka etc) allowing them to be moved rapidly.

Thanks for the info mate

I didn’t know that about IBF and WBO.
Boxrec P4P all time ratings are a bit odd sometimes but there are a lot of current and recent fighters in their P4p

https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?r%5Brole% ... D=JP&r_go=

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