BoxRec

It's probably mostly trolls or/and USA nostalgia bias? but I've watched boxing nearly 20 years and I swear I've heard it every year

Or are people just overly harsh with the glamour division?

Have anyone ever in their lifetime ever heard people just say positive things about a current heavyweight era?

For example the top 9 at heavyweight right now is Usyk, Fury, Dubois, Joshua, Parker, Zhang, Kabayel, Bakole, Hrgovic
So it's definitely not weak! clearly! It's a good division right now.

When comparing the division to the 1990s, it is weaker. There was more depth of talent. People used to say the division was weak during the reign of the Klitschko brothers. Ruslan Chagaev and Samuel Peter were among the best and Wladimir beat them both. The Klitschkos would not fight each other, so at least the top two today in Usyk and Fury will. Aside from them, it is the contenders that you stated. If the winner of Dubois vs. Parker for the IBF title fights the winner of Usyk vs. Fury 2 and does well (not necessarily win), then the division will be perceived as having more talent.

RScarf1 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 03:41 When comparing the division to the 1990s, it is weaker. There was more depth of talent. People used to say the division was weak during the reign of the Klitschko brothers. Ruslan Chagaev and Samuel Peter were among the best and Wladimir beat them both. The Klitschkos would not fight each other, so at least the top two today in Usyk and Fury will. Aside from them, it is the contenders that you stated. If the winner of Dubois vs. Parker for the IBF title fights the winner of Usyk vs. Fury 2 and does well (not necessarily win), then the division will be perceived as having more talent.

and then the people in the 900's will have complained that the 90's was weaker than the 870's and so on.

I think it's actually sad that we're in one of the all time Greatest Heavyweight eras, and we'll be talking about it as such 20 or 30 years from now, but it's not getting it's due now.

I just want it to be recognized that I'M giving it the proper credit it deserves. We have great Champions, and exciting contenders all the way down to the Top 15 right now. The division is undoubtedly deeper than it was in the 2000's and most of the 2010's.

To me it's behind only the very best eras of Heavyweight Boxing, and still a very, very interesting time to be a Heavyweight fight fan.

Every era has great highlights.

But.....

Wlad Klits style and dominance made for a lot of dull routine fights.

And I really don't get excited about usyk at all. I know he's good....but it's just dull.

I've not managed to watch a single defence in its entirety.

I don’t know about heavyweight but middleweight is historically weak right now

giacomino wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 19:07 I don’t know about heavyweight but middleweight is historically weak right now

Americans call it weak because they can't produce a top heavyweight.

I find it impossible to believe that heavyweight boxing is in a golden age at the same time that I am seeing repeated discussions of Wladimir Klitschko being brought back to immediately compete for a heavyweight title.

I think the very top of the heavyweight class in 2024 is at least more entertaining than their 2010s or 2000s counterpart, but yeah, there are very good reasons why comparisons to the 90s or prior eras keep falling flat. The talent pool is shallow and getting more shallow. Activity is way, way down. The undisputed champion is a former cruiserweight and will have de facto cleaned out the entire weight class if he beats Fury in the rematch in what will be only his 23rd professional bout and 7th at HW.

Weakest era in decades was the post lewis era but pre fury. The klitschkos were beating sam peter, calvin brock, eddie chambers - awful

It is, imo, a poor era.

You have fighters who, in any other era, would be journeyman, winning titles (ie Wilder). Apart from Uysk, the skill levels are way, way down.

Combo's, technique, all round skills are sorely lacking. Yes, they are bigger, generally, but that doesn't make you better.

Having watched Prime Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, then you even can go to people like Tubbs, Golota, Witherspoon, Thomas, peak Tucker, Tokyo Douglas etc.....you realise just how bad this era has been.

I mean, Stiverne, Ruiz, Wilder, Charles Martin.....all Champions, then Fury, Joshua, Dubois (who I do like), it is just not at the levels of the past.

Even those rated as 'contenders' are pretty poor standard. When you watch low quality, your standards can drop and you might see things as better, than they really are. 10-20 years from now, apart from Uysk, I think history will view this era as I see it, weak and lacking any real quality (again, Uysk apart).

This thread has not gone the way I intended it too. With the haters just wanting to use it as another thread to hate/trollon it.

Middleweight right now is what you call weak!

Heavyweight = no chance is it weak when you have the greatest fighter of this generation there & P4P number 1- Oleksandr Usyk, Tyson Fury - elite future hall of famer who's had every heavyweight title, Anthony Joshua - future hall of famer, and some strong contenders.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 14:49 Weakest era in decades was the post lewis era but pre fury. The klitschkos were beating sam peter, calvin brock, eddie chambers - awful

And they beat Haye, Povetkin Byrd, Sanders, Ibragimov, Chagaev, Pulev, Hide ( & Lennox Lewis lets be real, plus Peter was
actually good in his prime)

But yeah you just go and name their weakest opponents for your agenda!

zorndeslammes wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 11:45 The undisputed champion is a former cruiserweight and will have de facto cleaned out the entire weight class if he beats Fury in the rematch in what will be only his 23rd professional bout and 7th at HW.

That 'former cruiserweight' is the greatest fighter of this generation and one of the greatest boxers that's ever lived, who'd be competitive with anyone from any era! You're talking like he's a regular Joe cruiser LOL And the fact he's been fast tracked just adds to his credentials!

funso banjo baby wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 19:00
And I really don't get excited about usyk at all. I know he's good....but it's just dull.

I've not managed to watch a single defence in its entirety.

I think you're in a tiny minority there of people calling him dull. lol. He's a super skilled, master of boxing. First time I've ever heard anyone call him dull to watch lol

NazNaci1 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 17:53 You have fighters who, in any other era, would be journeyman, winning titles (ie Wilder)..

Your whole post was bullshit but this comment in particular is just extreme trolling. I'm no Wilder fan, but there's no way a prime Wilder is a journeyman in any era. With that unreal fight changing power he had, he's one of the hardest punching heavyweights ever no doubt.

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 23:26 Americans call it weak because they can't produce a top heavyweight.

Yeah I this is what a lot of the hate boils down to. Xenophobia or/and race. Certain people want an American/Black guy at the top, they want it to be like the 80's and 90's, and hate that non-american, European white heavyweights have been running the division for the last 2 decades.

You are clearly clueless 'Unreal punching power' what, against opponents ranked 100-500? Or against Fury, who has been dropped by Cruiserweights? One of the hardest punchers ever....f*** off with that bullsh*t. He was and is sh*t and would be lucky to be anywhere near a title in any other era, you clown.

You really don't know much, do you? You were clearly looking for some people to hype this era up and are just bitter that the majority see it for what it is.

remember when david haye was the saviour

Mike Tysons era in the late 80''s early 90's was before my time, But I've gone back and watched plenty of the fights, and it seems a very, very weak era , full of pass the parcel weak champs. the likes of Tony Tucker, Trevor Berbick, Buster Douglas, James Smith, Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Bruce Seldon, Frank Bruno. And some of the contenders Tyson faced were like they'd got random men out from the crowd they were that awful.

Plus the fact he was knocked out by Buster Douglas (who Holyfield destroyed in 3 rounds) is just super embarrassing.

Question for those old enough >>>When Tyson was facing bums in the late 80's early 90's were people claiming the heavyweight division was weak then at the time??? (or is that just saved for when non-americans are on top )

NazNaci1 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 19:04 You are clearly clueless 'Unreal punching power' what, against opponents ranked 100-500? Or against Fury, who has been dropped by Cruiserweights? One of the hardest punchers ever....f*** off with that bullsh*t. He was and is sh*t and would be lucky to be anywhere near a title in any other era, you clown.

You really don't know much, do you? You were clearly looking for some people to hype this era up and are just bitter that the majority see it for what it is.

Cry me a river Mr Sensitive

Tyson Fury at his best is an exceptional elite heavyweight and future first ballot hall of famer. So that shows YOU are clueless.

The fact that Wilder knocked out a good, solid heavyweight like Luis Ortiz twice and gave future HOF'er Fury real problems, shows he was legit enough. He clearly had the power to trouble anyone.

Nah I was just wondering if this is always the case that people are always overly harsh with the HW division. Seems like people like you have bad nostalgia issues. HW Boxing is global now and the whole world can turn pro, just deal with it. it's not like Mike Tyson's terrible era were virtually all the champions were American and it was practically a domestic american sport. The excellent ex Soviet nations were able to turn pro, the Brits improved, and other nations came into play.. It's never ever gonna go back to an American dominated division. You'll probably be calling the division weak till the day you die

Hahaha not sensitive at all.

You are the sensitive one, who gets upset that others disagree. I have watched all the HW's from the late 80s up until today. Yes, there were lower calibre fighters in these eras, but this era of HW would struggle to get anywhere, once again, Uysk apart.

Conversely, some people go the other way, because it is an era they are invested in, they cannot accept that anyone could disagree. More hype, fewer fights, more protected fighters, less skilled, bigger and nowadays, anyone can get a shot at a title and worse, avoid fighting anyone of note, while defending it (ie Wilder - 10 defences, Ortiz apart, opponents ranked 40-100+, a joke).

Re: Ortiz, the 40, going on 50 creaking fighter. You are citing that as an example as to how good Wilder was? Ortiz, and an old Ortiz at that? What would Bowe, Holyfield, Foreman, Lewis, Tyson, hell, even Tua, Morrison, Ruddock and quite a few others do to him. Or Fury? Beaten by a Cruiserweight, dropped by CW's, lost to McDermott and Nganou, arguably, defended his belt against nobodies, more hype......You do appear to buy into hype a fair bit or it could be that you are just trolling.

Anyways, for me, a poor era and you can disagree all you like.

PS I am not American.

ordsalloriginator wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 19:01

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 14:49 Weakest era in decades was the post lewis era but pre fury. The klitschkos were beating sam peter, calvin brock, eddie chambers - awful

And they beat Haye, Povetkin Byrd, Sanders, Ibragimov, Chagaev, Pulev, Hide ( & Lennox Lewis lets be real, plus Peter was
actually good in his prime)

But yeah you just go and name their weakest opponents for your agenda!

zorndeslammes wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 11:45 The undisputed champion is a former cruiserweight and will have de facto cleaned out the entire weight class if he beats Fury in the rematch in what will be only his 23rd professional bout and 7th at HW.

That 'former cruiserweight' is the greatest fighter of this generation and one of the greatest boxers that's ever lived, who'd be competitive with anyone from any era! You're talking like he's a regular Joe cruiser LOL And the fact he's been fast tracked just adds to his credentials!

funso banjo baby wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 19:00
And I really don't get excited about usyk at all. I know he's good....but it's just dull.

I've not managed to watch a single defence in its entirety.

I think you're in a tiny minority there of people calling him dull. lol. He's a super skilled, master of boxing. First time I've ever heard anyone call him dull to watch lol

NazNaci1 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 17:53 You have fighters who, in any other era, would be journeyman, winning titles (ie Wilder)..

Your whole post was bullshit but this comment in particular is just extreme trolling. I'm no Wilder fan, but there's no way a prime Wilder is a journeyman in any era. With that unreal fight changing power he had, he's one of the hardest punching heavyweights ever no doubt.

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 23:26 Americans call it weak because they can't produce a top heavyweight.

Yeah I this is what a lot of the hate boils down to. Xenophobia or/and race. Certain people want an American/Black guy at the top, they want it to be like the 80's and 90's, and hate that non-american, European white heavyweights have been running the division for the last 2 decades.

You think sam peter was good? In his prime he was outboxed and gifted a decision agaisnt a fat old middleweight. It isnt a coincidence roy jones and james toney found success at hw in that era. The era was terrible

Fighter like rahman could even counterpunch. They were very poor. My agenda is liking fighters that dont suck

giacomino wrote: ↑10 Dec 2024, 19:07 I don’t know about heavyweight but middleweight is historically weak right now

Yes it is

zorndeslammes wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 11:45 I find it impossible to believe that heavyweight boxing is in a golden age at the same time that I am seeing repeated discussions of Wladimir Klitschko being brought back to immediately compete for a heavyweight title.

I think the very top of the heavyweight class in 2024 is at least more entertaining than their 2010s or 2000s counterpart, but yeah, there are very good reasons why comparisons to the 90s or prior eras keep falling flat. The talent pool is shallow and getting more shallow. Activity is way, way down. The undisputed champion is a former cruiserweight and will have de facto cleaned out the entire weight class if he beats Fury in the rematch in what will be only his 23rd professional bout and 7th at HW.

In the 90's the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion was a former Cruiserweight too. At least for a little while.

Also a Former Light Heavyweight (Michael Moorer) was a 2x Heavyweight Champion in the 90's

Also the Oldest Man to ever win the Heavyweight Title accomplished it in the 90's.

Sounds bad when you put it like that don't it? Yet it was easily the 2nd best Heavyweight era of Boxing history. Competitive matchups, and intrigue are what make a division exciting. If Usyk beats Fury, and then retires, the division is once again wide open with several big matchups still to be made. If Usyk doesn't retire...even more that can be made.

I don't think there's any doubt that the current Heavyweight era is superior to the 1900's, the 1910's, the 1920's, the 1930's, 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1980's, The whole stretch from 2004-2015 or so.

Marciano beat up on Light Heavyweights in his reign.

Joe Louis had the bum of the month club.

Dempsey while a Superstar of the highest order faced competition that would be stomped to hell with ease in the modern era throughout his reign, and ducked any Black challengers.

The 80's had Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson, and was otherwise a bunch of guys playing Hot Potato with Titles that they couldn't hold onto.

Deontay Wilder is probably one of the weaker Champions of this era right? His reign, stomps all over almost every Titleholder of the 80's though.

Whether you're a fan of these guys is irrelevant. Objectively, This is one of the better eras of Heavyweight Boxing.

NazNaci1 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 19:48 Hahaha not sensitive at all.

You are the sensitive one, who gets upset that others disagree. I have watched all the HW's from the late 80s up until today. Yes, there were lower calibre fighters in these eras, but this era of HW would struggle to get anywhere, once again, Uysk apart.

Conversely, some people go the other way, because it is an era they are invested in, they cannot accept that anyone could disagree. More hype, fewer fights, more protected fighters, less skilled, bigger and nowadays, anyone can get a shot at a title and worse, avoid fighting anyone of note, while defending it (ie Wilder - 10 defences, Ortiz apart, opponents ranked 40-100+, a joke).

Re: Ortiz, the 40, going on 50 creaking fighter. You are citing that as an example as to how good Wilder was? Ortiz, and an old Ortiz at that? What would Bowe, Holyfield, Foreman, Lewis, Tyson, hell, even Tua, Morrison, Ruddock and quite a few others do to him. Or Fury? Beaten by a Cruiserweight, dropped by CW's, lost to McDermott and Nganou, arguably, defended his belt against nobodies, more hype......You do appear to buy into hype a fair bit or it could be that you are just trolling.

Anyways, for me, a poor era and you can disagree all you like.

PS I am not American.

Anyone claiming Wilder is a great fighter needs to stop, and think a moment, but I don't think it can possibly be denied that he's a devastating puncher because that's all he was. He was not even mediocre as far as Boxing skill he was downright bad, and amateurish. So for him to have went as far as he did in the Professional ranks can only mean he's one hell of a puncher because he had literally nothing else going for him.

ordsalloriginator wrote: ↑09 Dec 2024, 16:18
.. but I've watched boxing nearly 20 years..

... the top 9 at heavyweight right now is Usyk, Fury, Dubois, Joshua, Parker, Zhang, Kabayel, Bakole, Hrgovic
So it's definitely not weak! clearly! It's a good division right now.

There's your problem.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑12 Dec 2024, 02:12
In the 90's the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion was a former Cruiserweight too. At least for a little while.

Also a Former Light Heavyweight (Michael Moorer) was a 2x Heavyweight Champion in the 90's

Also the Oldest Man to ever win the Heavyweight Title accomplished it in the 90's.

Sounds bad when you put it like that don't it? Yet it was easily the 2nd best Heavyweight era of Boxing history. Competitive matchups, and intrigue are what make a division exciting. If Usyk beats Fury, and then retires, the division is once again wide open with several big matchups still to be made. If Usyk doesn't retire...even more that can be made.

The biggest mark against this era isn't Usyk being successful. It is the nature of his success. Like I said, he's had less than ten fights at heavyweight and is already approaching the stage of not having any more viable contenders and having been through a pair of rematches. Who else is he really gonna fight if he beats Fury again - Jared Anderson?

I don't think there's any doubt that the current Heavyweight era is superior to the 1900's, the 1910's, the 1920's, the 1930's, 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1980's, The whole stretch from 2004-2015 or so.

<snip>

Whether you're a fan of these guys is irrelevant. Objectively, This is one of the better eras of Heavyweight Boxing.

No. There's absolutely doubt that it is better than all the eras you mentioned. Those eras usually had more heavyweight boxers in NY state than exist in the entirety of the world today. Pointing out Joe Louis' Bum Of The Month club would be more damning if there were any modern parallels. There aren't. No one even remotely competes like that anymore. Not to mention that the "bums" he faced are probably significantly better than the B tier of modern fighters. Like, am I supposed to believe that Andy Ruiz Jr. is a product of modern nutrition and sports science who would run roughshod over the unprepared men of the 50s? He makes the coked up burnouts of the late 70s and early 80s look well conditioned.

There's plenty of contenders for Usyk to fight, but I'll grant you he's already faced the biggest name ones. Whether or not his body will hold up to face any of the others is another story. He rocketed straight up to the top of the Heavyweight ranks because of his P4P and Undisputed status at the previous weight class. That's how Boxing works these days.

For the record: If you put Max Baer vs Andy Ruiz in a head to head matchup. My money would be on Ruiz. Baer is more historically significant though.

You're free to disagree, but if you think this era is one of the weakest, and is weaker than every single one of those eras. You're too wrapped up in nostalgia, and need to take a better look at what's in front of you.