BoxRec

Any potential ideas?

It was still a major sport in the 1970s. It's never going to be nearly as popular as it once was. There might be some things that would help but probably won't happen.

-A governing body that people respect and ignore the rest.
- Eliminate some of the weight divisions. Get rid of straw weight, jr fly, jr bantam and jr feather
-Mandate that champions have to defend the title at least 2 times a year.
-Elimination bouts that would determine who got title shots.
- 1 overtime round if the judges have it a draw. Never understood why this was not a thing.
-Better officiating.

1474360 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025, 18:01 Any potential ideas?

Destroy the Internet.

Put 15 rounds back. Especially for the mega million fights. The paying customer is the loser today. They pay too much money for PPV for absurd product.

One world champion per division or two. Not four.

Boxing got to eliminate the MMA/UCF. They're losing popularity against guys like Dana White.

Bring back someone like promoter Don King again.

15 rounds would be a terrible idea. These guys pace themselves for 12 rounds. Imagine how slow of a pace fights would be if fighters knew they might have to go 15 rounds. i.e. instead of the typical fight with 12 boring rounds, we would have even less action each round and would have to endure it for 3 more rounds.

We would better off if they were only 10 rounds. Then fighters might fight at a faster round and we would have more exciting fights.

Agree that it would be much better if there was only champion per weight class. Just about everyone is onboard with this.
Obviously, boxing is not going to eliminate another sport. If boxing was still entertaining to watch, it would not matter than they exist.

You would be hard pressed to come up with many people who hurt the sport of boxing than Don King. Once he had a virtually monopoly on the sport, it started to decline. He cheated fighters monetarily, with officiating,, and was only interested in the really big fights that someone else could have hyped just as easily.

One world champion
Three honest judges.
Competent referees.

What if we make champs fought each other like wbc vs wba vs ibf vs wbo like the 4 belts champ fighting one and another for undisputed champ type that can maybe helps
And how it’s gonna work when they defend against top contenders 5 times they have to fight a champion or they get scripted of the title for failing to defend against another champ that could play a factor and then they can make fighter earn more money if the fight twice a year and make fighter earn more money for big fights which also could work

And then we can make sure only the top contender that beat a lot of the other ones get the title shot or the elimination title bout one

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 11:18 15 rounds would be a terrible idea. These guys pace themselves for 12 rounds. Imagine how slow of a pace fights would be if fighters knew they might have to go 15 rounds. i.e. instead of the typical fight with 12 boring rounds, we would have even less action each round and would have to endure it for 3 more rounds.

We would better off if they were only 10 rounds. Then fighters might fight at a faster round and we would have more exciting fights.

Agree that it would be much better if there was only champion per weight class. Just about everyone is onboard with this.
Obviously, boxing is not going to eliminate another sport. If boxing was still entertaining to watch, it would not matter than they exist.

You would be hard pressed to come up with many people who hurt the sport of boxing than Don King. Once he had a virtually monopoly on the sport, it started to decline. He cheated fighters monetarily, with officiating,, and was only interested in the really big fights that someone else could have hyped just as easily.

Don King promoted the best fights in history. No other promoter came close. If he stole money, it wasn't his fault but the fighter's managers.

UFC and MMA is little by little eliminating boxing. It's a new generation now.

15 rounds are good. These guys are better conditioned according to science. Are in better training methods according to science. And are much stronger and better according to the masses. That separates the man from the boys if we had 3 more rounds today.

That notion that we have to cut to 12 rounds is baloney. Any boxer could die at any round. These guys are much more protected now than 40 years ago. They got weigh ins before the day of the fight. There are much more precautions in boxing than ever before. There shouldn't be a problem if they fight 15 rounds. They could never measure with the greats of yesterday if they only fight 12 rounds. Twelve rounds have been TOO CONTROVERSIAL in the last 25 years. Most of the most controversial scoring have happened in this era. The last 25 years of bullcrap. That's why boxing is not #1 in combat sports anymore.

The paying customer that pays $150 dollars for a PPV fight is the loser. We were getting better quality fights for free TV.

Don Kong promoted the best fights? Well if we go along with that, the promoter really doesn't have anything to do with how good the fight was. If me or you promoted Ali-Frazier, the quality of the fight would have been the same. Was the sport doing better before Don King after when he promoted his last fight? The last thing the sport needs is another Don King.

How can we eliminate the UFC or MMA. That is like saying we can eliminate baseball or basketball.

People remember 15 round fights that were great. But most fights aren't great. there were just as many controversial fights that went 15 as went 12. How many 12 rounds in the last 20 years do you wish had went 15?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 11:58 One world champion
Three honest judges.
Competent referees.

That doesn't seem like a lot to ask for, but we all know that in reality it is.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 14:46 Don Kong promoted the best fights? Well if we go along with that, the promoter really doesn't have anything to do with how good the fight was. If me or you promoted Ali-Frazier, the quality of the fight would have been the same. Was the sport doing better before Don King after when he promoted his last fight? The last thing the sport needs is another Don King.

How can we eliminate the UFC or MMA. That is like saying we can eliminate baseball or basketball.

People remember 15 round fights that were great. But most fights aren't great. there were just as many controversial fights that went 15 as went 12. How many 12 rounds in the last 20 years do you wish had went 15?

Boxing doesn't need Golden Boy Promotions nor Bob Arum either. These two were the worst of the worst. Don King promoted the best fights since 1974. An that's not even close. If he stole money off fighters, it wasn't his fault. It was the fighters' managers.

All we had with Arum and Golden Boy Promotions were pure garbage in the last 25 years. I can't think of a great fight of the last 25 years that belongs in the top 25 greatest fights in history. I can't name one. Probably Barrera vs Morales I. That's it! Or Trinidad vs Vargas. The rest of them? The majority? Garbages!

Most 15 rounds fights were great. Not all of them, but the majority were great. I can't imagine The Thrilla in Manila being 12 rounds. It would not be as great as how it finished. The Fight of the Century? Ali vs Frazier I needed those 3 rounds. I can't imagine that fight being 12. It would cheat the public. Duran vs Leonard I? Marvelous vs Duran? Olivares vs Chucho Castillo? Leonard vs Hearns I? There would not be no high drama if those fights were 12.

Pryor vs Arguello I, anyone? Sanchez vs Nelson?

And then you ask how many 12 rounds fights of the last 25 years should have been 15 rounds? A lot of them!

For example:
Barrera vs Marquez
Marquez vs Pacquiao I and II
Mayweather vs De La Hoya
Barrera vs Morales I, II and II
Jones vs Tarver I
Morales vs Pacquiao
Corrales vs Castillo I and II


And still, the majority and quality of these fights don't make the top 25 greatest fights in history. Only Barrera vs Morales I, and Trinidad vs Vargas makes it.

I can't think of any fight since 2001 that make me see and watch again, and again and again. I don't see any.

You do realize that Golden Boy Promotions and Bob Arum simply don't have great fights to promote, don't you? If Don King would have promoted any of the fights the fights would not have been any better or worse.

A promoter can hype up a fight in advance. He can't make it better once the bell rings.

As 15 round fights, as usual you are missing the point. If a fight is that went 12 rounds, is garbage, do really think it would have been great had it gone 15 rounds?

Those fights that mentioned, notice that even those have not been that recent.

Most 15 rounds fights were not great. Of course you name some great ones. But for every great one, there were several more that weren't great.

Ali had the 1st and third Frazier fights. Any other great ones that went past 12 rounds? A few OK ones. And some bad ones. Same with just about everyone.

How about these classics:
Ali-Evangelista
Holmes-Cobb
Tubbs-Page
Witherspoon-Tubbs
Tate-Olajide
Benitez-Weston

None of these were fun to watch.

And a ton of other ones that might not have been awful but were far from classics. They are forgettable fights that nobody ever talks about. And this was when boxing was more exciting. Do you really wat to see Tyson Fury fight for 15 rounds?

I ask these questions rhetorically. You almost always ignore questions and just keep parroting the same dumb reasoning over and over.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 16:34 You do realize that Golden Boy Promotions and Bob Arum simply don't have great fights to promote, don't you? If Don King would have promoted any of the fights the fights would not have been any better or worse.

A promoter can hype up a fight in advance. He can't make it better once the bell rings.

As 15 round fights, as usual you are missing the point. If a fight is that went 12 rounds, is garbage, do really think it would have been great had it gone 15 rounds?

Those fights that mentioned, notice that even those have not been that recent.

Most 15 rounds fights were not great. Of course you name some great ones. But for every great one, there were several more that weren't great.

Ali had the 1st and third Frazier fights. Any other great ones that went past 12 rounds? A few OK ones. And some bad ones. Same with just about everyone.

How about these classics:
Ali-Evangelista
Holmes-Cobb
Tubbs-Page
Witherspoon-Tubbs
Tate-Olajide
Benitez-Weston

None of these were fun to watch.

And a ton of other ones that might not have been awful but were far from classics. They are forgettable fights that nobody ever talks about. And this was when boxing was more exciting. Do you really wat to see Tyson Fury fight for 15 rounds?

I ask these questions rhetorically. You almost always ignore questions and just keep parroting the same dumb reasoning over and over.

This a dumb post. One of the worst that I have ever read. I am playing your game.

Bob Arum lately, and Golden Boy Promotions recently are the worst promoters of the last 25 years and counting. They do not match Don King promoted fights. Like it or not.


Second, fights today would have been much better if added those 3 rounds. That's what separated the men from the boys. Of the last 25 years that we had witnessed the sport, NONE OF THESE FIGHTS! I MEAN NONE OF THEM! can be called classics. Just about 3 of them. Maybe 5. And that would be too much.

Third, I don't relish for nostalgia. I relish for quality of fights. If 15 rounds were around now, probably Floyd Mayweather Jr would not look this good. Anything can happen in the last 3 rounds. Twelve rounds doesn't make it, mister. What can't you not understand?

Fourth, these 25 years are the worst years of watching boxing. I don't even watch the sport because it's full of baloney, controversy and garbage. Too many weight classes. Everybody is a champion. Guys are triple crown champions the easy way. No talent whatsoever. These fighters are pleased with 12 rounds. And they make the most money. They should fight 15 rounds! The paying customer is the loser. They don't get their money's worth.

Fifth, you're mentioning fights that weren't even classics. For crying out loud, nobody knows those fights if you don't mentioned them. And believe me, some of those 15 boring round fights that you mentioned had much more fun than Pac Man vs Mayweather. And to tell you the truth, I have never seen a Mayweather fight when he was around. Why? I knew the outcome. Twelve boring rounds of lackluster boxing. And who is the loser? THE PAYING CUSTOMER.

And I believe if Tyson Fury's fights were 15 rounds, they would have been much exciting. It would be fun to watch two giants that weigh in more than 260lbs pounding each other for 15 rounds. One of the two is going to get tired. That's the fun of the sport. These guys make too much money now for not fighting 15 rounds. And again, the loser is THE PAYING CUSTOMER.

As usual you don't get anything. You clearly don't understand the points that I have been making. You're not answering the questions that that you are being asked.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 19:06 As usual you don't get anything. You clearly don't understand the points that I have been making. You're not answering the questions that that you are being asked.

And what was your question of so many points that I refuted?

You used to have big fights on network TV. Well no one watches network tv anymore.
So how about instead of most semi big fights being PPV. How about being on You tube, TUBITV or Pluto streaming service?
More free options to watch the sport would equate to more viewers, More fans.

15 round fights will not bring back the excitement. People today have a shorter attention span than in years past.

No more scheduled mismatches. Michael Hunter vs Lovejoy types of fights are not ppv worthy. Hell they aren't even worth watching in a bar. Stop scheduling these.

A centralized standard governing body. They could hold judges and referees accountable. They could also implement a computerized ratings system to assure unqualified fighters from receiving unwarranted title shots.

Champions must defend the title 2 times minimum per year. 1 mandatory and 1 of their choice that must be rated in the ten.
Contenders need to fight 3 times a year to maintain their top 20 rating.
Mo more fight once a year to remain a contender.

The sport needs big money sponsors. Not just a corona sign in the middle of the ring.
Get those big dollars to cover expenses for the fights by having corporations sponsor fighters. In this corner Richard Torrez sponsored by General Motors. General motors a company that knocks out the competition. .... you get the point.
Have the advertising pay the extra bucks instead of the fans.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 11:18 15 rounds would be a terrible idea. These guys pace themselves for 12 rounds. Imagine how slow of a pace fights would be if fighters knew they might have to go 15 rounds. i.e. instead of the typical fight with 12 boring rounds, we would have even less action each round and would have to endure it for 3 more rounds.

We would better off if they were only 10 rounds. Then fighters might fight at a faster round and we would have more exciting fights.

Agree that it would be much better if there was only champion per weight class. Just about everyone is onboard with this.
Obviously, boxing is not going to eliminate another sport. If boxing was still entertaining to watch, it would not matter than they exist.

You would be hard pressed to come up with many people who hurt the sport of boxing than Don King. Once he had a virtually monopoly on the sport, it started to decline. He cheated fighters monetarily, with officiating,, and was only interested in the really big fights that someone else could have hyped just as easily.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 Boxing doesn't need Golden Boy Promotions nor Bob Arum either. These two were the worst of the worst. Don King promoted the best fights since 1974. An that's not even close. If he stole money off fighters, it wasn't his fault. It was the fighters' managers.

Doubling down on this point is so unbelievably retarded.
It isn't his fault? How is it not his fault? He did it for no other reason than greed.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 13:40 Don King promoted the best fights in history. No other promoter came close. If he stole money, it wasn't his fault but the fighter's managers.

He may have promoted some of the best fights in history, but he also fucked over just about every fighter he ever promoted or managed. We don't need another Don King.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 13:40 UFC and MMA is little by little eliminating boxing. It's a new generation now.

No boxing is eliminating boxing. UFC is easier to follow, yes the fights are shorter but the cards are stacked compared to boxing cards. There is no massive lag between fights. Their product is a million times better than the boxing product at the moment.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 13:40 15 rounds are good. These guys are better conditioned according to science. Are in better training methods according to science. And are much stronger and better according to the masses. That separates the man from the boys if we had 3 more rounds today.

IIRC the reason to drop to 12 rounds was because research found that fighters would begin to be dangerously dehydrated during rounds 13-15, increasing the chances of long term and short term damage.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 13:40 That notion that we have to cut to 12 rounds is baloney. Any boxer could die at any round. These guys are much more protected now than 40 years ago. They got weigh ins before the day of the fight. There are much more precautions in boxing than ever before. There shouldn't be a problem if they fight 15 rounds. They could never measure with the greats of yesterday if they only fight 12 rounds. Twelve rounds have been TOO CONTROVERSIAL in the last 25 years. Most of the most controversial scoring have happened in this era. The last 25 years of bullcrap. That's why boxing is not #1 in combat sports anymore.

Any driver could die during any drive so we should get rid of speed limits and there is no need to airbags, seat belts, crumple zones etc.
Most probably could fight 15 rounds, but like fighters will pace themselves for a 12 round fight compared to 6 or 8, they will also pace themselves for 15 rounds.
I agree that an odd amount of rounds makes it more likely there are less draws but boxing has always been controversial. It isn't controversial because of an even number of rounds but because of corruption and incompetence.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 13:40 The paying customer that pays $150 dollars for a PPV fight is the loser. We were getting better quality fights for free TV.

Agree that the customer paying $150 for a ppv is the loser, but a lot of places, including where I live do not get fights for free on TV.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 Boxing doesn't need Golden Boy Promotions nor Bob Arum either. These two were the worst of the worst. Don King promoted the best fights since 1974. An that's not even close. If he stole money off fighters, it wasn't his fault. It was the fighters' managers.

Just an insane take.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 All we had with Arum and Golden Boy Promotions were pure garbage in the last 25 years. I can't think of a great fight of the last 25 years that belongs in the top 25 greatest fights in history. I can't name one. Probably Barrera vs Morales I. That's it! Or Trinidad vs Vargas. The rest of them? The majority? Garbages!

Golden boy and Arum have promoted at least half of the fights of the year since 2000.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 Most 15 rounds fights were great. Not all of them, but the majority were great. I can't imagine The Thrilla in Manila being 12 rounds. It would not be as great as how it finished. The Fight of the Century? Ali vs Frazier I needed those 3 rounds. I can't imagine that fight being 12. It would cheat the public. Duran vs Leonard I? Marvelous vs Duran? Olivares vs Chucho Castillo? Leonard vs Hearns I? There would not be no high drama if those fights were 12.

Pryor vs Arguello I, anyone? Sanchez vs Nelson?

Out of 100s if not 1000s of 15 round fights you have listed like 8 great fights? That is far from a majority. Please use actual proof to show that the majority of 15 round fights were great.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 And then you ask how many 12 rounds fights of the last 25 years should have been 15 rounds? A lot of them!

For example:
Barrera vs Marquez
Marquez vs Pacquiao I and II
Mayweather vs De La Hoya
Barrera vs Morales I, II and II
Jones vs Tarver I
Morales vs Pacquiao
Corrales vs Castillo I and II

Corrales and Castillo being 15 rounds would have been pointless, both fights ended before the 12th round had even started.
It would at least be interesting if the others were 15 rounds but doubtful that would have made them better or worse fights.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 And still, the majority and quality of these fights don't make the top 25 greatest fights in history. Only Barrera vs Morales I, and Trinidad vs Vargas makes it.

The vast majority of 15 round fights don't make the top 25 greatest fights in history. That is why it is a top 25.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 15:15 I can't think of any fight since 2001 that make me see and watch again, and again and again. I don't see any.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ring_ ... Year#2020s

Some worthwhile rewatches here.

As long as you can watch most major sports for free, boxing will never again get back to the popularity of the 50s, 60s or 70s. Only a small number of die hard fans are going to pay $30-40 a pop, even if there were 9 weight classes (I include Cruiser) and one champ per weight class.

I mean they could decease the money to 20 or 15 and maybe even 10

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 13:40

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025, 11:18 15 rounds would be a terrible idea. These guys pace themselves for 12 rounds. Imagine how slow of a pace fights would be if fighters knew they might have to go 15 rounds. i.e. instead of the typical fight with 12 boring rounds, we would have even less action each round and would have to endure it for 3 more rounds.

We would better off if they were only 10 rounds. Then fighters might fight at a faster round and we would have more exciting fights.

Agree that it would be much better if there was only champion per weight class. Just about everyone is onboard with this.
Obviously, boxing is not going to eliminate another sport. If boxing was still entertaining to watch, it would not matter than they exist.

You would be hard pressed to come up with many people who hurt the sport of boxing than Don King. Once he had a virtually monopoly on the sport, it started to decline. He cheated fighters monetarily, with officiating,, and was only interested in the really big fights that someone else could have hyped just as easily.

Don King promoted the best fights in history. No other promoter came close. If he stole money, it wasn't his fault but the fighter's managers.

UFC and MMA is little by little eliminating boxing. It's a new generation now.

15 rounds are good. These guys are better conditioned according to science. Are in better training methods according to science. And are much stronger and better according to the masses. That separates the man from the boys if we had 3 more rounds today.

That notion that we have to cut to 12 rounds is baloney. Any boxer could die at any round. These guys are much more protected now than 40 years ago. They got weigh ins before the day of the fight. There are much more precautions in boxing than ever before. There shouldn't be a problem if they fight 15 rounds. They could never measure with the greats of yesterday if they only fight 12 rounds. Twelve rounds have been TOO CONTROVERSIAL in the last 25 years. Most of the most controversial scoring have happened in this era. The last 25 years of bullcrap. That's why boxing is not #1 in combat sports anymore.

The paying customer that pays $150 dollars for a PPV fight is the loser. We were getting better quality fights for free TV.

- - Now Elmo, there you go again. Don King was the reason ABC, NBC, and CBS terrestrial Broadcasters dumped Boxing. The reason was exactly as Alp elucidated.

Now fixed fights have been around since ground zero, but they were not so clumsily organized as King did. I'm sure Arum fixed a few, ie the first Bradley/Manny fight where Manny put Bradley in a wheelchair only to lose a split decision that erupted the Boxing Public. Arum demanded a WBO investigation of the fight and himself. WBO formed a panel of Boxing judges who all scored the fight for Manny.

"That is a terrible, bogus decision....Tim Bradley has scored and upset split decision victory over Manny Pacquiao. God only knows how." - HBO's Jim Lampley
"That decision was a crime." - HBO's Harold Lederman
"It's either corruption or incompetence. There'll be a rematch. It speaks to the corruption of the sport. The criminals will be rewarded" - ESPN's Teddy Atlas
"People, a great sport is now on a respirator. Boxing is presently a polluted playing field in every respect. Tonight was par for the course." - Lou DiBella
"Maybe not worse than my draw with Holyfield but still bad nonetheless." - Lennox Lewis
"It was one of the most outrageous decisions I’ve ever seen." - ESPN's Dan Rafael
"I did my best, but I guess my best wasn't good enough. I've been watching his fight tapes. There were no surprises. He never hurt me with his punches. Most of them hit my arms. I don't know what happened." - Manny Pacquiao
"It was a good fight. Every round was pretty close. Pacquiao won the early rounds, I won the later rounds with my jab. I have to go home and see the tape to see who won." - Timothy Bradley
"When I came into the ring [after the fight], I said to Tim, 'You did very well,' and he said 'I tried hard and I couldn't beat the guy.' You talk about killing boxing. Even [Bradley's manager, Cameron Dunkin] had it 8-4 for Pacquiao....Something like this is so outlandish, it's a death knell for the sport....I have both guys, and I'll make a lot of money in the rematch, but it's ridiculous. You have these old f---- who don't know what the hell they're looking at. It's incompetence. Nobody who knows anything about boxing could have Bradley ahead in the fight." - Bob Arum [5]