BoxRec

12 rounds, peak vs peak, who ya got?

Frazier wins ko by round 6. Terrible mismatch.
I would give Wilder a 1 in 1000 chance of a lucky punch knockout.
But come on this is a joke of a fight

Should it happen under the 15 rounder, Smokin' Joe would wear Wilder down with body punches and setting him up with big left hooks to knock Wilder out in 7 rounds.

Maybe Deontay Wilder was not the great George Foreman. He is bigger and taller and hit as hard as Big George, but for some reason, he doesn't beat the great Smokin' Joe Frazier?

I don't think that Wilder beats the Frazier that magnificently kicked Muhammad Ali's azz in the Fight of the Century in March 1971.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 May 2025, 15:10 Maybe Deontay Wilder was not the great George Foreman. He is bigger and taller and hit as hard as Big George, but for some reason, he doesn't beat the great Smokin' Joe Frazier?

I don't think that Wilder beats the Frazier that magnificently kicked Muhammad Ali's azz in the Fight of the Century in March 1971.

Did you say modern boxers were bigger and stronger and would beat the old guys?

While Wilder certainly has the power to hurt anyone, I don't think he'd land his bomb of a right before he ate 20 or 30 left hooks from Frazier, and was knocked out first.

Wilder may have been a bigger puncher, but Frazier was a better fighter in every other department.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 May 2025, 06:17

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 May 2025, 15:10 Maybe Deontay Wilder was not the great George Foreman. He is bigger and taller and hit as hard as Big George, but for some reason, he doesn't beat the great Smokin' Joe Frazier?

I don't think that Wilder beats the Frazier that magnificently kicked Muhammad Ali's azz in the Fight of the Century in March 1971.

Did you say modern boxers were bigger and stronger and would beat the old guys?

I have said, that Joe Louis was too small for today's giants. I just can't see how Louis, as great as he was, beats someone as big as Deontay Wilder.

This guy, Wilder, is not "Two Ton" Tony Galento.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 May 2025, 18:10

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 May 2025, 06:17

elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 May 2025, 15:10 Maybe Deontay Wilder was not the great George Foreman. He is bigger and taller and hit as hard as Big George, but for some reason, he doesn't beat the great Smokin' Joe Frazier?

I don't think that Wilder beats the Frazier that magnificently kicked Muhammad Ali's azz in the Fight of the Century in March 1971.

Did you say modern boxers were bigger and stronger and would beat the old guys?

I have said, that Joe Louis was too small for today's giants. I just can't see how Louis, as great as he was, beats someone as big as Deontay Wilder.

But Frazier was smaller than Louis, make your mind up elmer.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑14 May 2025, 04:04

elmersalsa wrote: ↑13 May 2025, 18:10

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 May 2025, 06:17

Did you say modern boxers were bigger and stronger and would beat the old guys?

I have said, that Joe Louis was too small for today's giants. I just can't see how Louis, as great as he was, beats someone as big as Deontay Wilder.

But Frazier was smaller than Louis, make your mind up elmer.

Smokin' Joe Frazier was stronger, could take a shot better than the great Joe Louis. If Deontay Wilder connects Louis's jaw, he's gone! Count to 100, my brother!

Would Louis be allowed to punch Wilder? That would make the difference.

btw- Frazier got knocked down the same amount of times in his career as Joe Louis. And Frazier got stopped one more time. And Louis has many more fights. However, those are just facts.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 May 2025, 19:31 Would Louis be allowed to punch Wilder? That would make the difference.

btw- Frazier got knocked down the same amount of times in his career as Joe Louis. And Frazier got stopped one more time. And Louis has many more fights. However, those are just facts.

Smokin' Joe was down 6 times with George Foreman in their first meeting. Foreman put him down again about twice in their second bout. We're talking about one fighter that beat Smokin' Joe Frazier when Frazier was not in his prime. The ONLY man that dropped Frazier in his prime was Oscar Bonavena in '66.

In the other hand, the great Joe Louis got dropped by:
Max Schmeling
James J Braddock
Two Ton Tony Galento
Buddy Baer
Jersey Joe Walcott (twice in the same fight)
Rocky Marciano

Billy Conn almost knocked him out. Conn only weighed in 168lbs in their first fight in 1941.
Tammie Mauriello also hurt him.

Six men dropped Louis. Four of them in his prime. That tells me that his chin was questionable. Very questionable. Now a fighter like Deontay Wilder that is listed at 6'6" and weighs about 240lbs?...sounds like homicide.

I'm sorry. The guy would be too big for The Brown Bomber.

Frazier.

I mean he could walk ont one early. He was a slow starter. But Joe wins a 10 fight series 8-2.

Wilder is a great puncher. And a tough man. But he has very few string to his bow. He's big trouble for many.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 May 2025, 23:01

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 May 2025, 19:31 Would Louis be allowed to punch Wilder? That would make the difference.

btw- Frazier got knocked down the same amount of times in his career as Joe Louis. And Frazier got stopped one more time. And Louis has many more fights. However, those are just facts.

Smokin' Joe was down 6 times with George Foreman in their first meeting. Foreman put him down again about twice in their second bout. We're talking about one fighter that beat Smokin' Joe Frazier when Frazier was not in his prime. The ONLY man that dropped Frazier in his prime was Oscar Bonavena in '66.

In the other hand, the great Joe Louis got dropped by:
Max Schmeling
James J Braddock
Two Ton Tony Galento
Buddy Baer
Jersey Joe Walcott (twice in the same fight)
Rocky Marciano

Billy Conn almost knocked him out. Conn only weighed in 168lbs in their first fight in 1941.
Tammie Mauriello also hurt him.

Six men dropped Louis. Four of them in his prime. That tells me that his chin was questionable. Very questionable. Now a fighter like Deontay Wilder that is listed at 6'6" and weighs about 240lbs?...sounds like homicide.

I'm sorry. The guy would be too big for The Brown Bomber.

When Joe Louis fought Max Baer, a guy that basically only had 1 weapon. His right hand. Louis beat the sh*t out of that guy.

Wilder only has 1 weapon. His right hand.

Wilder has been knocked down 7 times, and knocked out 3 times. He has more losses than Louis even though he's fought fewer fights.

Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera were both physically larger than Deontay Wilder, and both were knocked out by Joe Louis.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 May 2025, 14:30

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 May 2025, 23:01

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 May 2025, 19:31 Would Louis be allowed to punch Wilder? That would make the difference.

btw- Frazier got knocked down the same amount of times in his career as Joe Louis. And Frazier got stopped one more time. And Louis has many more fights. However, those are just facts.

Smokin' Joe was down 6 times with George Foreman in their first meeting. Foreman put him down again about twice in their second bout. We're talking about one fighter that beat Smokin' Joe Frazier when Frazier was not in his prime. The ONLY man that dropped Frazier in his prime was Oscar Bonavena in '66.

In the other hand, the great Joe Louis got dropped by:
Max Schmeling
James J Braddock
Two Ton Tony Galento
Buddy Baer
Jersey Joe Walcott (twice in the same fight)
Rocky Marciano

Billy Conn almost knocked him out. Conn only weighed in 168lbs in their first fight in 1941.
Tammie Mauriello also hurt him.

Six men dropped Louis. Four of them in his prime. That tells me that his chin was questionable. Very questionable. Now a fighter like Deontay Wilder that is listed at 6'6" and weighs about 240lbs?...sounds like homicide.

I'm sorry. The guy would be too big for The Brown Bomber.

When Joe Louis fought Max Baer, a guy that basically only had 1 weapon. His right hand. Louis beat the sh*t out of that guy.

Wilder only has 1 weapon. His right hand.

Wilder has been knocked down 7 times, and knocked out 3 times. He has more losses than Louis even though he's fought fewer fights.

Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera were both physically larger than Deontay Wilder, and both were knocked out by Joe Louis.

Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera were stiffs. Put them in this generation of giants and they won't succeed. They had primitive skills for boxing.

What skills did Wilder have? Would love to hear this.
Btw, you said that Wilder was listed at 240. He never weighed that in his entire career. So yet again, you are flat out wrong.

In fact, he had many fights where he actually weighed less than Louis did for some of his fights.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑16 May 2025, 17:24

gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 May 2025, 14:30

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 May 2025, 23:01

Smokin' Joe was down 6 times with George Foreman in their first meeting. Foreman put him down again about twice in their second bout. We're talking about one fighter that beat Smokin' Joe Frazier when Frazier was not in his prime. The ONLY man that dropped Frazier in his prime was Oscar Bonavena in '66.

In the other hand, the great Joe Louis got dropped by:
Max Schmeling
James J Braddock
Two Ton Tony Galento
Buddy Baer
Jersey Joe Walcott (twice in the same fight)
Rocky Marciano

Billy Conn almost knocked him out. Conn only weighed in 168lbs in their first fight in 1941.
Tammie Mauriello also hurt him.

Six men dropped Louis. Four of them in his prime. That tells me that his chin was questionable. Very questionable. Now a fighter like Deontay Wilder that is listed at 6'6" and weighs about 240lbs?...sounds like homicide.

I'm sorry. The guy would be too big for The Brown Bomber.

When Joe Louis fought Max Baer, a guy that basically only had 1 weapon. His right hand. Louis beat the sh*t out of that guy.

Wilder only has 1 weapon. His right hand.

Wilder has been knocked down 7 times, and knocked out 3 times. He has more losses than Louis even though he's fought fewer fights.

Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera were both physically larger than Deontay Wilder, and both were knocked out by Joe Louis.

Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera were stiffs. Put them in this generation of giants and they won't succeed. They had primitive skills for boxing.

Wilder has a hell of a right hand, and no other skills to speak of.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2025, 19:31 What skills did Wilder have? Would love to hear this.
Btw, you said that Wilder was listed at 240. He never weighed that in his entire career. So yet again, you are flat out wrong.

In fact, he had many fights where he actually weighed less than Louis did for some of his fights.

Wilder was between 210 and 220 for the bulk of his career. I think it was the 2nd fight with Fury that he bulked up to 230 something pounds, and that's about as heavy as he ever was.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2025, 19:31 What skills did Wilder have? Would love to hear this.
Btw, you said that Wilder was listed at 240. He never weighed that in his entire career. So yet again, you are flat out wrong.

In fact, he had many fights where he actually weighed less than Louis did for some of his fights.

He weighed in 238lbs for the Tyson Fury bout. Walking around weight after the weigh-in should be 240lbs plus. Right?

Deontay Wilder doesn't have any skills. But, he is twice stronger than the great Joe Louis that barely made 200lbs in his best days in his prime.

Plus, Wilder is not called The Dark Bomber for nothing. Once he hits Louis, Louis would be out! He would not get up!

Now the living in the past guys will tell me that Joe Louis hit harder than Deontay Wilder. Please! Stop it!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑17 May 2025, 12:38

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2025, 19:31 What skills did Wilder have? Would love to hear this.
Btw, you said that Wilder was listed at 240. He never weighed that in his entire career. So yet again, you are flat out wrong.

In fact, he had many fights where he actually weighed less than Louis did for some of his fights.

He weighed in 238lbs for the Tyson Fury bout. Walking around weight after the weigh-in should be 240lbs plus. Right?

Deontay Wilder doesn't have any skills. But, he is twice stronger than the great Joe Louis that barely made 200lbs in his best days in his prime.

Plus, Wilder is not called The Dark Bomber for nothing. Once he hits Louis, Louis would be out! He would not get up!

He's not called The Dark Bomber at all.

Wilder would often miss, miss, miss, and miss some more with his right hand before landing it well into the fight. Louis was significantly more skilled, and would've absolutely battered Wilder when they were fighting on the inside.

A huge puncher always has a puncher's chance. Louis is the better fighter though without question, and the better fighter often wins the fight.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑17 May 2025, 12:41 Now the living in the past guys will tell me that Joe Louis hit harder than Deontay Wilder. Please! Stop it!

It's possible he hits almost as hard, and he'd definitely be outlanding Wilder at a significant clip. His right hand is probably bigger than Joe's right hand, but Joe's everything else is better.

Better conditioning, better accuracy, more punch variety, quicker, better inside fighting.

It's hard to beat one of the best there ever was when you're a one trick pony.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑17 May 2025, 12:43

elmersalsa wrote: ↑17 May 2025, 12:41 Now the living in the past guys will tell me that Joe Louis hit harder than Deontay Wilder. Please! Stop it!

It's possible he hits almost as hard, and he'd definitely be outlanding Wilder at a significant clip. His right hand is probably bigger than Joe's right hand, but Joe's everything else is better.

Better conditioning, better accuracy, more punch variety, quicker, better inside fighting.

It's hard to beat one of the best there ever was when you're a one trick pony.

Joe Louis's chin would be the problem, Gilgamesh. He was Too small for these giants of today. He would have been too small for the talented heavyweights after the great Sonny Liston.

These guys today are in better condition. Better nutrition. Better care. They are stiffs for today's standards, but they were better than the Primo Carneras, Buddy Baers and Abe Simons of the world.

Tyson Fury fights circa 1938-42, in the modern technology that he has now fighting then, the people of those times would be dismayed at him. I mean, 6'9? 280lbs and more? Has good movement for his size and can hit? He and his peers would be something to behold then. Louis was too small for these guys now.

Take a look at Primo Carnera. He was chiseled. Take a look at Tyson Fury. He is grossly out of shape. Carnera was in far better condition than Fury. Not remember remotely close. Baer and Simon were in better condition than Fury as well.

elmer clearly doesn't know anything about Wilder. He thought he was much heavier than he was. Thought he had more skills. Had the wrong nickname. For some reason elmer thought he was the Dark Bomber and was impressed by that. Apparently in elmers mind that somehow is more impressive Louis being called the Brown Bomber.

elmer, you have no idea what you are talking about. For your penalty, you have to sit through the Fury-Wilder fights.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 May 2025, 16:52 Take a look at Primo Carnera. He was chiseled. Take a look at Tyson Fury. He is grossly out of shape. Carnera was in far better condition than Fury. Not remember remotely close. Baer and Simon were in better condition than Fury as well.

elmer clearly doesn't know anything about Wilder. He thought he was much heavier than he was. Thought he had more skills. Had the wrong nickname. For some reason elmer thought he was the Dark Bomber and was impressed by that. Apparently in elmers mind that somehow is more impressive Louis being called the Brown Bomber.

elmer, you have no idea what you are talking about. For your penalty, you have to sit through the Fury-Wilder fights.

Ambling Alp. I have never said that Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, Wladimir Klitschko nor Deontay Wilder were the 8th Wonders of Boxing. None of them makes my top 10 all-time top ten heavyweight list. None of them makes the top 100 pound per pound great boxers. They don't have the qualifications to enter.

But ....

Are they giants? Yes
Very strong? Yes
Very tall and heavy? Yes
Are they professional boxers? Yes
Can they hit hard? Yes
Do they hit harder than Joe Louis? Yes
Is Louis too small for these giants? Yes. Louis would have had lots of trouble with these guys. They are too big, too heavy and hit harder.

Are these giants today have better equipment, nutrition and training methods than in Louis's heyday? Just look at the videos. These giants are even too pampered. Anything small happens to them and they will go to the doctor's office to see what happened to their bodies.

These giants today don't have no skill compared to Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, Sonny Liston, Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe or George Foreman for example. Big guys with class. Big guys that can fight. Big guys that are talented.

Tyson Fury or Anthony Joshua would squash the great Joe Louis not because they got better talent. It's because a physical issue than a talent issue.

That's like a Roberto Duran at lightweight fighting a Matthew Saad Muhammad or Eddie Gregory at Light-Heavyweight. Duran had much more skills than those two, but those guys would have been too big for Duran. That's a 40lbs difference. That's the same thing in a fight with Louis with any of today's giants. They would outweigh him by at least 40 pounds! Even if Louis had all the arsenal in the book. His chin would not stand the shots of these giants of today.

That's the way I see it. It's not a talent issue but a physical advantage issue.

Why didn't Nicolay Valuev beat David Haye then? He had a hell of a physical advantage there.

Why is one of the smallest of all active Heavyweights the current Heavyweight Champion having 4 wins over these modern giants you go on about.

Physical size is an advantage, yes. It's not the one and only determining factor in who wins a fight. If it was, the biggest man would win 100% of the time, but that doesn't happen because size is merely 1 factor.