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Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 05 Jun 2025, 08:05
by golden_labrador
This seems to be a grey area. I'm a casual boxing fan and can't help but notice the effect these punches have in fights. I've seen a fair few happen and go unpunished, and the victim lost the fight. You can say they were accidental but the damage is still done. There'll be a lot of low blow talk as the Usyk-DDD rematch approaches but I don't hear so much talk of illegal head shots.
Examples of late being the Itauma-McKean fight, Parker-Bakole, just off the top of my head.
I'm talking shots to the top of the head and back of the head, that alter the course of a fight, which affect the fighter's equilibrium.
Are these punches pro's will try to chase "accidentally"? Should we be clamping down on them more than we currently are?
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 05 Jun 2025, 08:25
by goose 5
I agree 100 percent that accidental punches to the back of the head are a problem. Sometimes, a guy who is already hurt and getting battered will be caught with one and go down.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 05 Jun 2025, 09:55
by THEBUTCH
Punches to the back of the head happen a lot. Often accidental.
If the referees deem them to be deliberate i think it should be result in a disqualification.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 05 Jun 2025, 23:46
by gregregegg
"Filip Hrgovic (15-0) Highlights & Knockouts" on YouTube is the perfect video demonstrating how back of the head shots are completely legal if your the A-side...
If I were fighting hrgs at the press conference I'd be bringing it up. in every interview I'd be bringing it up, in the ref meeting I'd be bringing it up.... I would want as much scrutiny on it as humanly possible.... (and with that you would probably stop him doing it a bit...)
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 01:21
by gilgamesh
A shot to the top of the head usually results in the guy ducking into it. Same with many punches in the back of the head. You can't punish a guy for landing a punch on the back of the head that he threw at the guy's jaw.
Now if it's a clinch, and you repeatedly rabbit punch the guy. Or if he's leaning down, and you load up, and throw as hard as you can at the back of his head, yeah that's dangerous.
More often than not these shots don't feel like intentional fouls.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 10:41
by goose 5
I'd say they are rarely done on purpose. Your point about a guy ducking into a shot is the key, I believe. A sort of "reckless defense" is often to blame.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 10:52
by Ezzard
Bruno was a constant rabbit puncher.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 11:16
by dookus
I think they're a bit of an unsolved problem. They're (usually) accidental fouls, and they can completely change a fight, and yet they are rarely refereed in the same way as accidental low blows or headbutts.
It's possible that some fighters throw hooks around that general region without necessarily specifically targeting the back of the head, perhaps unconsciously knowing it's unlikely to be punished if it lands in an illegal spot due to the opponent ducking into it.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 11:38
by Flump
Ezzard wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025, 10:52
Bruno was a constant rabbit puncher.
I was going to say this, it's amazing what he got away with.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 11:47
by Jimmy2025
I always thought Golovkin deliberately targeted the top of the head.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 12:18
by Ruthless-RKO
Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025, 11:47
I always thought Golovkin deliberately targeted the top of the head.
Was it his shot against Geale?
Was a nasty KO.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 12:29
by Jimmy2025
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025, 12:18
Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025, 11:47
I always thought Golovkin deliberately targeted the top of the head.
Was it his shot against Geale?
Was a nasty KO.
He aimed (IMO) at the top of the head in lots of fights. Loved him as a fighter BTW.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 13:50
by margaret thatcher
ya he had that weird looping hook that came down on the top, never seen another fighter throw it, think he dropped or ko'd rubio with it
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 06 Jun 2025, 14:29
by Jimmy2025
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025, 13:50
ya he had that weird looping hook that came down on the top, never seen another fighter throw it, think he dropped or ko'd rubio with it
As Greg said earlier, you can get away with a heck of a lot when you are the A-side. Even the spineless commentators don't comment on such infractions.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 04:00
by Old bones Ian
Bruno used to use the rabbit punch quite often , seem to remember him ko'ing Evans with it.
Hatton got away with it a lot , with him it felt like a distraction shot to put the other boxer off.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 06:53
by olij999
Fouls matter - as people have said, they change the course of fights (and, in my view, careers), and there is nothing in British rules that says a foul is not a foul if it is accidental. A foul is a foul is a foul. The only relevance of whether it is accidental or not comes when it causes an injury severe enough to end the fight, at which point the accidental foul or intentional foul rules kick in.
The following are all fouls under BBBofC rules - but how often do you see them being enforced or punished?
(a) hitting below the belt;
(b) using the “pivot blow”;
(c) hitting on the back of the head or neck;
(d) kidney punching;
(e) hitting with the open glove, the inside, or the butt or the back of the hand, or with the wrist or elbow;
(f) holding, butting, or careless use of the head, shouldering, wrestling or roughing;
(g) not trying;
(h) persistently ducking below the waistline;
(i) intentional falling without receiving a blow;
(j) failing to break when so ordered, or striking or attempting to strike an opponent on the break;
(k) deliberately striking an opponent when he is dropping to the floor or when he is down;
(l) deliberately hitting an opponent after the termination of a round;
(m) unsporting conduct.
(n) any other conduct which a Referee may deem foul.
(o) boxing whilst under the influence of a prohibited substance.
Particular bugbears of mine are (e) and (g).
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 07:04
by jonp
olij999 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025, 06:53
Fouls matter - as people have said, they change the course of fights (and, in my view, careers), and there is nothing in British rules that says a foul is not a foul if it is accidental. A foul is a foul is a foul. The only relevance of whether it is accidental or not comes when it causes an injury severe enough to end the fight, at which point the accidental foul or intentional foul rules kick in.
The following are all fouls under BBBofC rules - but how often do you see them being enforced or punished?
(a) hitting below the belt;
(b) using the “pivot blow”;
(c) hitting on the back of the head or neck;
(d) kidney punching;
(e) hitting with the open glove, the inside, or the butt or the back of the hand, or with the wrist or elbow;
(f) holding, butting, or careless use of the head, shouldering, wrestling or roughing;
(g) not trying;
(h) persistently ducking below the waistline;
(i) intentional falling without receiving a blow;
(j) failing to break when so ordered, or striking or attempting to strike an opponent on the break;
(k) deliberately striking an opponent when he is dropping to the floor or when he is down;
(l) deliberately hitting an opponent after the termination of a round;
(m) unsporting conduct.
(n) any other conduct which a Referee may deem foul.
(o) boxing whilst under the influence of a prohibited substance.
Particular bugbears of mine are (e) and (g).
Yeh reading this I was thinking to myself I'm sure the top of the head isnt deemed illegal had me second guessing
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 07:20
by Jimmy2025
Yes. I remember Steve Collins being surprised that GGG got away with punching the top of the head when he fought Murray as he thought it was illegal. I always thought it was legal until then and just took Steve at his word. Looking at the rules it's clear top of the head shots are fine.
Edit: just looked back, there was a topic here back in 2015 about this where I wrote "Steve Collins claimed the punch was illegal as the top of the head is not a legitimate target. Until it's demonstrated otherwise, I believe Collins is wrong on both counts."
I'm losing the plot.
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 07 Jun 2025, 16:25
by golden_labrador
Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025, 07:20
Yes. I remember Steve Collins being surprised that GGG got away with punching the top of the head when he fought Murray as he thought it was illegal. I always thought it was legal until then and just took Steve at his word. Looking at the rules it's clear top of the head shots are fine.
Edit: just looked back, there was a topic here back in 2015 about this where I wrote "Steve Collins claimed the punch was illegal as the top of the head is not a legitimate target. Until it's demonstrated otherwise, I believe Collins is wrong on both counts."
I'm losing the plot.
I always assumed it was legal but then heard it was illegal somewhere
Re: Accidental (or not) Illegal Head Shots
Posted: 08 Jun 2025, 12:09
by forcefraser
A good ref should stop it.. They do a few exaggerated Marcus McDonald hand waves and that's it