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someone help me understand
Posted: 11 Jun 2025, 18:49
by margaret thatcher
there are many fast handed fighters without notable power, some even feather fisted
there are many punchers who arent especially fast. some are downright slow. big george foreman's hands were often much slower than his opponents, but he did so much more damage
how does this work with physics, seems to contradict speed x mass = force . obviously technique plays a role too, but rarely does someone change power dramatically with a bit of change there
still feels like we havent really worked out what really makes a puncher (or a chin)
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 11 Jun 2025, 20:13
by Ruthless-RKO
No matter how slow you are, you might have a heavy hand and eventually.. that heavy hand will land.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 11 Jun 2025, 21:14
by KiwiRider
I always wondered how Joe Joyce generates power as a lot of his shots seem mostly arm and shoulder, plus how slow he is.
Joseph Parker described it as a heavy thudding punch rather than a sharp one.
It definitely works over time.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 00:46
by Controversial
A combination of a few things, leverage, timing, technique and sometimes their sheer strength and weight. I imagine someones physical traits like bone density must help
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 01:08
by Bigdogsnose
Bone density must have a huge impact. You see fighters like beterbiev and golovkin use very little leverage and they arent super quick but every shot thuds. With then guys i think its part of their physical make up.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 03:12
by Frostieballs
I think timing is very important.
You can generate more momentum for yourself and catch your opponent at their most vulnerable and moving forward with good timing.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 03:20
by handsofstone
It is strange but also there are a lot of non punchers who don't sit down on their shots, even prime Mike Tyson wouldn't KO anyone fighting like that
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 03:28
by Jimmy2025
This is a relatively complex subject but the theories of physics explain it all away but keep it simple initially.
To get you thinking about it, put punching to one side for a moment and think about various types of ball being fired against a wall from a cannon.
A ping pong ball at 100mph
A tennis ball at 50mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 10mph
Which does more damage?
Or
A ping pong ball at 10mph
A tennis ball at 100mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 50mph
Or
A ping pong ball at 50mph
A tennis ball at 10mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 100mph
Or
All at 100mph or any other combination of velocity.
Instinctively you will have a good idea which one will do more damage.
What about two balls both with a mass of 16lb but one is made of steel and one is made of dough, both get fired at 100mph, which does more damage to the wall?
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 06:41
by NazNaci1
Accuracy and timing also come into it, along with the other points mentioned.
Timing beats speed etc..so you don't have to be fast or strong. If you can time someone, have technique and accuracy (as some of the great fighters do / did), it makes a bit more sense.
Archie Moore used to deliberately switch the speed up of his punches, and as he was powerful and accurate, too, for example, has the most KO's in boxing history - Ok, that is the extreme, but I hope I am making (some) sense.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 06:48
by coneye
Any coach will tell you , when it comes to punching , You can get a kid / lad / man whatever , spend 12 months 2 years has long has you want , teaching him to hit harder , at the end of it , you've got his balance , his technique , his speed , his timing and every thing else you think he needs all down to pat ... Then in walks another guy and hits just has hard straight off the bat , these are the guys who when coached correctly develop awsoime power , the rest are just mere mortals .
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 10:02
by goose 5
Guys who are deemed slow are not actually as slow as you might think if you were to watch them live from ringside.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 11:08
by margaret thatcher
Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2025, 03:28
This is a relatively complex subject but the theories of physics explain it all away but keep it simple initially.
To get you thinking about it, put punching to one side for a moment and think about various types of ball being fired against a wall from a cannon.
A ping pong ball at 100mph
A tennis ball at 50mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 10mph
Which does more damage?
Or
A ping pong ball at 10mph
A tennis ball at 100mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 50mph
Or
A ping pong ball at 50mph
A tennis ball at 10mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 100mph
Or
All at 100mph or any other combination of velocity.
Instinctively you will have a good idea which one will do more damage.
What about two balls both with a mass of 16lb but one is made of steel and one is made of dough, both get fired at 100mph, which does more damage to the wall?
ya that makes sense. although i'd think that gloved fists are of similar build
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 11:26
by Jimmy2025
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Jun 2025, 11:08
Jimmy2025 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2025, 03:28
This is a relatively complex subject but the theories of physics explain it all away but keep it simple initially.
To get you thinking about it, put punching to one side for a moment and think about various types of ball being fired against a wall from a cannon.
A ping pong ball at 100mph
A tennis ball at 50mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 10mph
Which does more damage?
Or
A ping pong ball at 10mph
A tennis ball at 100mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 50mph
Or
A ping pong ball at 50mph
A tennis ball at 10mph
A 16lb bowling ball at 100mph
Or
All at 100mph or any other combination of velocity.
Instinctively you will have a good idea which one will do more damage.
What about two balls both with a mass of 16lb but one is made of steel and one is made of dough, both get fired at 100mph, which does more damage to the wall?
ya that makes sense. although i'd think that gloved fists are of similar build
Don't think so much about the fist in isolation. Think about the entire kinetic chain from toe up that goes towards loading that fist.
What if the arm was made of sponge rather than bone, muscle and sinew?
What if the core was made of jelly?
What if the hips didn't rorate?
What if you were throwing punches whilst underwater scuba diving with no ground contact?
Etc..
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 11:32
by JC
In my head...
Quick hands not a big puncher = light car moving fast
Quick hands big puncher = heavy car moving fast
Slow hands big puncher = truck moving slowly
With the weight of the vehicle relating to how much bodyweight they have recruited into the punch.
Re: someone help me understand
Posted: 12 Jun 2025, 13:13
by THEBUTCH
Former British & European light welterweight champion Pat Barrett, who turned a few opponent's lights out, used to stress the knockouts were as a result of timing.