BoxRec

Let say they fought at a series how would it have gone?

Anyone?

Duran wins every time.

Leonard wins every time.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025, 06:14 Leonard wins every time.

Hell naw!

Roberto Duran would obliterate the great Benny Leonard.

I think Ray Arcel had a good perspective on these two.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025, 19:02

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025, 06:14 Leonard wins every time.

Hell naw!

Duran would likely quit in the rematch.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 06:31

elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025, 19:02

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025, 06:14 Leonard wins every time.

Hell naw!

Duran would likely quit in the rematch.

Quit my ass! Not with those primitive skills of Benny Leonard.

Roberto Duran was a complete boxer. One of the best arsenals that the boxing world ever seen. He ain't losing to a guy like that!

Ray Arcel trained Duran and Leonard.
He said he’d give the edge to Leonard in a fight between the two.
And yet, somehow Elmer says that Leonard had “ primitive skills”

Expug wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 16:05 Ray Arcel trained Duran and Leonard.
He said he’d give the edge to Leonard in a fight between the two.
And yet, somehow Elmer says that Leonard had “ primitive skills”

I'm taking Arcel's opinion over elmer's.

If you watch film of Leonard, he keeps his hands low, but his head is typically out of punching range and he had very good movement.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 16:45

Expug wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 16:05 Ray Arcel trained Duran and Leonard.
He said he’d give the edge to Leonard in a fight between the two.
And yet, somehow Elmer says that Leonard had “ primitive skills”

I'm taking Arcel's opinion over elmer's.

A guy like that could never beat the great Roberto Duran!

elmersalsa wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 21:53

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 16:45

Expug wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 16:05 Ray Arcel trained Duran and Leonard.
He said he’d give the edge to Leonard in a fight between the two.
And yet, somehow Elmer says that Leonard had “ primitive skills”

I'm taking Arcel's opinion over elmer's.

A guy like that could never beat the great Roberto Duran!

You don't the the great Ray Arcel would have more knowledge on the subject than you?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 10:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 21:53

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 16:45

I'm taking Arcel's opinion over elmer's.

A guy like that could never beat the great Roberto Duran!

You don't the the great Ray Arcel would have more knowledge on the subject than you?

He was always wrong when it came to that. A guy like Benny Leonard ain't beating the great Roberto Duran. Duran was in another level.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 16:22

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 10:15

elmersalsa wrote: ↑04 Aug 2025, 21:53

A guy like that could never beat the great Roberto Duran!

You don't the the great Ray Arcel would have more knowledge on the subject than you?

He was always wrong when it came to that. A guy like Benny Leonard ain't beating the great Roberto Duran. Duran was in another level.

Yeah, but he was also a quitter.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 17:02

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 16:22

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 10:15

You don't the the great Ray Arcel would have more knowledge on the subject than you?

He was always wrong when it came to that. A guy like Benny Leonard ain't beating the great Roberto Duran. Duran was in another level.

Yeah, but he was also a quitter.

That doesn't diminished his legacy. As a matter of fact, he won more fans after that fiasco, winning two more world titles after being considered washed up. What a fighter! What a comeback!

It could have never happened to a better fighter. Roberto Duran: the best of the last 60 years!

I’d say it definitely diminishes his legacy that he quit against Leonard.
I’m not a huge Leonard fan, but any fighter that gets frustrated and waves it off in the middle of a fight, let alone a super fight multi million dollar championship fight , has to own that.
He has an overall great career, but that fight was a disgrace

Expug wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025, 15:30 I’d say it definitely diminishes his legacy that he quit against Leonard.
I’m not a huge Leonard fan, but any fighter that gets frustrated and waves it off in the middle of a fight, let alone a super fight multi million dollar championship fight , has to own that.
He has an overall great career, but that fight was a disgrace

Yes, it was a disgrace. So what? He is not the only fighter that had a disgraceful moment. It's how you come back from your former failures that makes you great.

Roberto Duran made up for it with two extraordinary wins after No Mas. And that's what matters. If he would have never come back and retired after No Mas and never fight again, his legacy would have been tattered. He would have not been ranked that high.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025, 12:23

Expug wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025, 15:30 I’d say it definitely diminishes his legacy that he quit against Leonard.
I’m not a huge Leonard fan, but any fighter that gets frustrated and waves it off in the middle of a fight, let alone a super fight multi million dollar championship fight , has to own that.
He has an overall great career, but that fight was a disgrace

Yes, it was a disgrace. So what? He is not the only fighter that had a disgraceful moment. It's how you come back from your former failures that makes you great.

Are you saying all fighters have to quit just at some point to be great?

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025, 12:23

Expug wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025, 15:30 I’d say it definitely diminishes his legacy that he quit against Leonard.
I’m not a huge Leonard fan, but any fighter that gets frustrated and waves it off in the middle of a fight, let alone a super fight multi million dollar championship fight , has to own that.
He has an overall great career, but that fight was a disgrace

Yes, it was a disgrace. So what? He is not the only fighter that had a disgraceful moment. It's how you come back from your former failures that makes you great.

Roberto Duran made up for it with two extraordinary wins after No Mas. And that's what matters. If he would have never come back and retired after No Mas and never fight again, his legacy would have been tattered. He would have not been ranked that high.

You can never fully make up for something like that. I guarantee he'll always rank a few notches below where he would've on the P4P list if he had simply lost that fight in a dignified way as opposed to quitting.

He did have a great career both before and after the No Mas incident no doubt about it, but it still certainly affects the way people look at him, and rank him on all time lists.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025, 13:07

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025, 12:23

Expug wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025, 15:30 I’d say it definitely diminishes his legacy that he quit against Leonard.
I’m not a huge Leonard fan, but any fighter that gets frustrated and waves it off in the middle of a fight, let alone a super fight multi million dollar championship fight , has to own that.
He has an overall great career, but that fight was a disgrace

Yes, it was a disgrace. So what? He is not the only fighter that had a disgraceful moment. It's how you come back from your former failures that makes you great.

Roberto Duran made up for it with two extraordinary wins after No Mas. And that's what matters. If he would have never come back and retired after No Mas and never fight again, his legacy would have been tattered. He would have not been ranked that high.

You can never fully make up for something like that. I guarantee he'll always rank a few notches below where he would've on the P4P list if he had simply lost that fight in a dignified way as opposed to quitting.

He did have a great career both before and after the No Mas incident no doubt about it, but it still certainly affects the way people look at him, and rank him on all time lists.

Even at that lowest point in his life, the guy redeemed himself. He lost a lot of fans after No Mas. But, regained some of them and acquired many more fans after winning the title from Davey Moore. It was one of the most magical nights in an unforgettable decade.

Sixteen former and current world champions at the time in June 1983, including his nemesis, Sugar Ray Leonard, were at hand to see the crowning of his redemption. That's to show you all, that the man was so great and revered by true boxing pundits. The king was back! That didn't happened to nobody else.

Roberto Duran is the greatest boxer pound per pound of the last 60 years. I don't see nobody else. The guy was incredible. No doubt about it.

That's the beauty of life. It gives you a chance to redeem yourself. Because we're not from another galaxy. We're humans. Everybody got a low point and a high point in their lives. It's how you come back from your failures.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025, 12:45

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2025, 12:23

Expug wrote: ↑07 Aug 2025, 15:30 I’d say it definitely diminishes his legacy that he quit against Leonard.
I’m not a huge Leonard fan, but any fighter that gets frustrated and waves it off in the middle of a fight, let alone a super fight multi million dollar championship fight , has to own that.
He has an overall great career, but that fight was a disgrace

Yes, it was a disgrace. So what? He is not the only fighter that had a disgraceful moment. It's how you come back from your former failures that makes you great.

Are you saying all fighters have to quit just at some point to be great?

George Foreman got knocked out from Muhammad Ali and embarrassed by Jimmy Young. He had to come back ten years later because deep in his heart, he knew he had to fight against prove that he was great.

He redeemed himself when in November 1994, took the crown in spectacular fashion from Michael Moore by knockout. That's what greatness is all about. Not too many guys can come back from deep failures. Foreman and Roberto Duran proved that you can.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 17:02

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 16:22

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 10:15

You don't the the great Ray Arcel would have more knowledge on the subject than you?

He was always wrong when it came to that. A guy like Benny Leonard ain't beating the great Roberto Duran. Duran was in another level.

Yeah, but he was also a quitter.

Good point. That does tarnish his legacy.
Usually, I have high esteem for the unbiased opinions of elmer, but since Ray Arcel goes with Leonard and Duran is a quitter, would have to lead towards Leonard. Wonder if there would have been any excuses made for Duran?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Aug 2025, 16:42

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 17:02

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 Aug 2025, 16:22
He was always wrong when it came to that. A guy like Benny Leonard ain't beating the great Roberto Duran. Duran was in another level.

Yeah, but he was also a quitter.

Good point. That does tarnish his legacy.
Usually, I have high esteem for the unbiased opinions of elmer, but since Ray Arcel goes with Leonard and Duran is a quitter, would have to lead towards Leonard. Wonder if there would have been any excuses made for Duran?

Another Duran hater, my gosh! I wonder if Duran was American.