BoxRec

This is bound to get a range of views.
Randy Turpin? no he only had the one good result..and failed in the rest.

Alan Minter? decent enough but got took apart by Hagler too easily, whilst no shame in that it just shows how short he was to the best.

Ken Buchanan?

Naz?

For me it has to be Nigel Benn, the slick boxers could have beaten him but when he was in the mood to rumble what a fight he would have given any of them.

Lennox obviously has to be mentioned

John Conteh, maybe could have achieved more than he did

Lloyd Honeygan, shocked the world to win the title and hung on to it for a while though was born in Jamaica.

Yeh Honeyghan is right up there..overlooked him

John Conteh, Howard Winstone, Lennox Lewis and Ken Buchanan.

I mean somebody who stood above everybody or atleast could have given the top guys a good fight.

Naz could be mentioned, but it always comes down to the fact he fought old named fighters and fighters moving up in weight.
Barrera beat him and didn`t even want his title, for me Naz was just the best of a bad bunch back then, the top fighters around his weight would always beat him as Barrera proved

Naz is one of the most naturally talented British fighters of the past 50 years, his power was truly awesome. However as with so many fighters with great natural gifts he didn't have the temperament and mental strength to make the most of it, for this reason I think he will always be considered as a fighter who fell just short of greatness (in terms of accomplishments). It is a great shame that he only went over to America when he was already on the slide.

I think he fell along way short of greatness.

He had awesome punch power and good skills, but he will always be remembered as failing his first real test, the other good fighters on his record were without doubt very worn fighters when he got to them.

tonyevs wrote:I think he fell along way short of greatness.

He had awesome punch power and good skills, but he will always be remembered as failing his first real test, the other good fighters on his record were without doubt very worn fighters when he got to them.

Fair points.

Going back to the original topic of the fighters mentioned I think these 5 (not in order) look like a good top 5 so far, and I think there would be places for Watt and Eubank in a top ten.

Lewis, Honeygan, Buchanan, Conteh and Turpin

But I'm sure I've forgot some

Lennox I feel did not really show us what he really had, so many fights he made hard work of, but when he was good he was quite scary.

Honeyghan is good so is Benn.
Herol would always be awkward but his style always left you feeling somewhat robbed.

Steve Collins was always honest but basic.
Jim Watt so unappealing to watch, and Buchanan was for the conniseur.
Conteh and Minter were always good British level and McGuigan didn`t do enough.

How I got to starting this thread was I was thinking that Britain for at least the last 50yrs (longer if you really delve) has not produced a real `great` fighter on the world scene, good fighters yes, but take the British hype away and we`ve had nobody.

How big would a Mike McCallum be if he was British?
There would be statues up outside every building he`d ever visited, he`d be Sir McCallum and we`d be talking about him for the next 150yrs, and Tony Blair would now be telling us it was McCallum who gave him his inspiration to fight for the well being of this country, but the sad truth is we`ve never had a born and bred British fighter who was ever as good as a Mike McCallum.

The Mexicans and the Americans are spoilt with the fantastic boxers they have had, I just hope they appreciate them.

Ken Buchanan by quite some way, then Conteh and Lewis.

tonyevs wrote:Lennox I feel did not really show us what he really had, so many fights he made hard work of, but when he was good he was quite scary.

Honeyghan is good so is Benn.
Herol would always be awkward but his style always left you feeling somewhat robbed.

Steve Collins was always honest but basic.
Jim Watt so unappealing to watch, and Buchanan was for the conniseur.
Conteh and Minter were always good British level and McGuigan didn`t do enough.

How I got to starting this thread was I was thinking that Britain for at least the last 50yrs (longer if you really delve) has not produced a real `great` fighter on the world scene, good fighters yes, but take the British hype away and we`ve had nobody.

How big would a Mike McCallum be if he was British?
There would be statues up outside every building he`d ever visited, he`d be Sir McCallum and we`d be talking about him for the next 150yrs, and Tony Blair would now be telling us it was McCallum who gave him his inspiration to fight for the well being of this country, but the sad truth is we`ve never had a born and bred British fighter who was ever as good as a Mike McCallum.

The Mexicans and the Americans are spoilt with the fantastic boxers they have had, I just hope they appreciate them.

All very sad and true, and you're right you can go back more than 50 years and not find a truely great brit.

The massive hype and public interest surrounding the few world class fighters we have had goes to show how much people in Britain enjoy or enjoyed the sport. This makes boxings decline as a mainstream sport due to the rise of sky, alphabet belts etc, all the sadder.

J-C wrote:
This makes boxings decline as a mainstream sport due to the rise of sky, .

Thats was the biggest blow to boxing in this country, since boxing went to Sky how many boxing superstars have we had? I mean boxers who got public recognition like Bruno, Benn or Eubank.

Even Americans the likes of Ali, Ray leonard and Hearns got to be bigger over here because they had a bigger audience back then.

We still have great boxers like De La Hoya about but for all he has achieved he could walk down just about any shopping precinct in the UK and 99% of people wouldn`t know him from Adam, and so could the biggest star in the UK today, Ricky Hatton.

Without a superstar to attract the interest of the youngsters where are the next generation to come from?

From a USA point of view, some of the fighters mentioned never earned much respect over here. Honeyghan and Benn were never highly regarded. Personally, I thought Honeyghan was average and just lucky. I saw him fight here in Chicago once and he had to get off the canvas and struggle mightily to beat a journeyman. Benn was just a brawler.
The British fighters who made an impression here include Lennox Lewis, most of all, and I'd also say Ken Buchanan, John Conteh and Barry McGuigan. Naz got some exposure here, but his strutting behavior was a big turn-off. And, since the biggest bloc of fight fans here are the Latinos, it delighted Mexican-Americans to see Barrera take him down.

I think Howard Winstone deserves at least a mention at this point.

Ok the memory banks start churning here.

Ken Buchanan definitely. he went into everyone elses back yard and came out on top.

Barry McGuigan probably, dubious decision to fight Steve Cruz, Barry still insists he was in the States on a PR trip. Lost his water bottle after round 10 and was in front after 14. Two visits to the canvas in the 15th lost the fight severly de-hydrated.

Lennox Lewis I don't think we saw the best of him. What we did see was something special.

Nigel Benn ferocious

Jim Watt Came just after Duran but beat some pretty decent challengers.

Guys like John Conteh, John H Stracey, Dave "Boy" Green, Alan Minter, Tony Sibson, Lloyd Honeyghan, Charli Magri etc. etc

These guys were good but not great enough to make a big impact

Conteh ran into Saad Muhammad at his best
Stracey .....Carlos Palomino
Green ........Sugar Ray Leonard "What the fornicate hit me " first words he said when they brought him round

Minter ran into Hagler and then Sibson

Sibson met his end at Hagler

Honey got lucky against Don Curry then blew himself up

And wee Charlie looked awesome until Sot Chitalada.

Remember, Britain was the first super power but in reality we are a little island with limited resources in comparison to the States. Also, as already stated unless you subscribe to satalite TV there is NO boxing on your screens anymore.

These guys above could walk down the high st of most towns and were recognised. Not anymore.

I'm not as clued up as I used to be because of lack of TV here but there are some World Champions out there I've never heard of.

Back in the 80's I could name every champion at every weight class and probably pick him out from a pic.

Yes, sad but true. Can't see much championship boxing on TV anymore unless you shell out big bucks. Looks like the greedy people have it all tied up again. Champions don't seem to have the outstanding skills and qualities of those 20-25 years ago. We really did see a golden age back then.
I have to disagree with any inclusion of Jim Watt on a list of outstanding fighters. He was middling at best. Against a top-notch opponent (Arguello) he was easily swept aside. I thought his performance against Sean O'Grady (and the behavior of the fans) was disgraceful. Watt deliberately butted. The crowd was in an anti-Irish blood frenzy. Silly, really, because O'Grady was a drawling good ol' boy from Oklahoma who was about as Irish as chicken-fried steak.
From over here, it looks like British fans waste a lot of passion on mediocrities and undervalue some greats (Lennox Lewis).

crooked nose wrote:Yes, sad but true. Can't see much championship boxing on TV anymore unless you shell out big bucks. Looks like the greedy people have it all tied up again. Champions don't seem to have the outstanding skills and qualities of those 20-25 years ago. We really did see a golden age back then.
I have to disagree with any inclusion of Jim Watt on a list of outstanding fighters. He was middling at best. Against a top-notch opponent (Arguello) he was easily swept aside. I thought his performance against Sean O'Grady (and the behavior of the fans) was disgraceful. Watt deliberately butted. The crowd was in an anti-Irish blood frenzy. Silly, really, because O'Grady was a drawling good ol' boy from Oklahoma who was about as Irish as chicken-fried steak.
From over here, it looks like British fans waste a lot of passion on mediocrities and undervalue some greats (Lennox Lewis).

Watt mostly attracted Rangers fans. Look at the trouble record for Rangers fans abroad. Compare to when almost 100,000 Celtic fans (filled with drink) travelled to Seville in 2003 to watch them come up short in the UEFA cup final - there was not a single arrest. Rangers seem to attract a lot of hooligan English fans, which is a shame because they are a minority that gives the general English and Rangers fan a bad name. It's always the minority that causes it; I think there is 3 types of boxing fan in the UK. 1) Hardcore fan who would never cause any trouble 2) casual fan - who is okay, but can be easily led (these are majority) 3) nutjobs who go to cause a ruckus. The way the Watt - O'Grady promotion tapped into the sectarian issue could be compared with the way Minter's defence of his title against Hagler tapped into the race issue: both were drawing an extra buck from a strong, nasty undercurrent in British society at the time.

As for the best British boxers: I go 1) Buchanan 2) Conteh. The rest of the names are all mentioned above but I'm not going to rate them because I don't have the knowledge to do it exact - the way I'd want to.

This is controversial and bound to get some people's backs up, but I don't rate Lewis as 100% British. It bugged me for ages what it was about him, but bennie who used to post here nailed it by saying how Lewis spent the formulate years of adulthood; the years in childhood that define you as a person, in Canada. He left for there when he was 12, and it's about the age of 12 you mature drastically, as well as make life choices (like what subjects to do at school, etc) that will shape you as a person. Lewis spent this time in Canada and it is very telling that he chose to represent Canada in the Olympics - this was a very conscious decision that showed where his head and heart was.

I don't disagree with you points about Lewis, its true about the years after 12 being key. However I would say that I think the reason many continued to consider him Canadian was simply down to the fact he had the accent. I know that might sound silly but subconciously it makes a big difference. I go to a university where many of the foreign students have what sound to me like totally American accents but had never set foot in America it takes some getting used to.

In respect to where Lewis' heart was, to be honest I get the inpression that like many people born in Britain to Jamacian parents it was with his Jamacian heritage that he most identified.

I would have to go with Ken Buchanan #1. Duran refused to give him a rematch and later said Buchanan was one of his toughest fights. That's enough for me. Plus, he did go abroad and did not rely on a home country advantage like Watt did.

For #2, I agree that Howard Winstone deserves a mention here. For a fighter to go tooth and nail over three fights with Vicente Saldivar, who I consider one of the greatest p4p fighters ever, says a lot. I think there is a tendency to underrate the great fighters that did not become champions. Despite the WBC title he won at the end of his career, Winstone gets lumped into this category.

Manos D'Oro

Not about to get embroiled in the Glasgow sectarian issue as it happens with BOTH sets of supporters.

Born and bred in the city and it angers me every time these two teams play each other as there is at least one killing in the city that is directly linked to a game of football.

As for the Watt v's O'Grady fight. The guys who promoted this fight knew the sectarian hatred that could explode within this town.

Watt was training at Ibrox Stadium ( Home of Rangers) because this was the venue for the fight and the physiotherapist there was treating him for an earlier injury.

Sean's people arrived in Glasgow and met the press clothed in Celtic jerseys (Supplied by the promoters to sell tickets )

Naturally this was a red rag to a city full of bulls.

This is a sad fact of life in my beloved town that sickens the majority of us but will never go away. The blaim cannot be pointed at one team as it is inbred within the inner city and raises its ugly head within BOTH teams.

It goes beyond football and has NO place at a boxing show.

The promoters of this fight should have been charged for inciting a riot.

As for the outcome, Watts headbutt, we have a saying here

"Maybes Aye Maybes Naw You'll never know"

I wouldn't say Honeyghan got lucky against Curry, he destroyed him... Curry was never the same fighter. At his best Honeyghan was a excellent fighter but like Conteh he burnt out quickly.
My list of the best over the past 50 years would be....

Ken Buchanan
Randy Turpin
John Conteh
Lloyd Honeyghan
Howard winstone
8)

silkov wrote:I wouldn't say Honeyghan got lucky against Curry, he destroyed him... Curry was never the same fighter. At his best Honeyghan was a excellent fighter but like Conteh he burnt out quickly.
My list of the best over the past 50 years would be....

Ken Buchanan
Randy Turpin
John Conteh
Lloyd Honeyghan
Howard winstone
8)

I can totally agree with Buchanan and Honeyghan getting listed and maybe even Conteh a case can be made, but Winstone while a class boxer on these shores at the time I do not think he really qualifies, and Turpin for me is just too highly over-rated as the years go by.

Buchanan, Conteh and even Honeyghan(not as much as he deserved)had respect from the USA but how well respected was Turpin and Winstone??

I have Winstone's second and third fights with Saldivar.His skills were superb.

He'd go down as an all-time great were he around today.

Michael Watson could have 'ruled' the World middleweights and went down in History as an all-time great... an absolute shame!

God Bless him!