BoxRec

A day like today, May 25th, 1965, Muhammad Ali wins by knockout in the first round against ex-champion Sonny Liston in Lewiston, ME.

A fight that happened 61 years ago and still has more questions than answers. What really happened that night? It was the End of the Innocence.

This has been covered numerous times.
Nobody really knows, it's all speculation.

Agreed. We don't need any more threads on this. Just bump one of the dozens of old ones. There's nothing new to be said about this.

I can't agree that it was the end of innocence.

goose 5 wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:31 I can't agree that it was the end of innocence.

Especially considering Kennedy was killed shortly before this. Something tells me that was a more traumatic moment for people that Ali vs Liston 2.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:34

goose 5 wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:31 I can't agree that it was the end of innocence.

Especially considering Kennedy was killed shortly before this. Something tells me that was a more traumatic moment for people that Ali vs Liston 2.

Well, which event you guys consider as the End of the Innocence?

John Lennon got shot and murdered.
John F. Kennedy assassination.
Martin Luther King Jr assassination.
Clay vs Liston II.
Argentina 6, Peru 0 in the 1978 World Cup semifinal round.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 20:01

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:34

goose 5 wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:31 I can't agree that it was the end of innocence.

Especially considering Kennedy was killed shortly before this. Something tells me that was a more traumatic moment for people that Ali vs Liston 2.

Well, which event you guys consider as the End of the Innocence?

John Lennon got shot and murdered.
John F. Kennedy assassination.
Martin Luther King Jr assassination.
Clay vs Liston II.
Argentina 6, Peru 0 in the 1978 World Cup semifinal round.

Can someone explain this innocence to me?
Before any of these events we had in no particular order:
Slavery
Nuclear bombs
Chemical weapons
Genocides
Assassinations for millennia

elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 20:01

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:34

goose 5 wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:31 I can't agree that it was the end of innocence.

Especially considering Kennedy was killed shortly before this. Something tells me that was a more traumatic moment for people that Ali vs Liston 2.

Well, which event you guys consider as the End of the Innocence?

John Lennon got shot and murdered.
John F. Kennedy assassination.
Martin Luther King Jr assassination.
Clay vs Liston II.
Argentina 6, Peru 0 in the 1978 World Cup semifinal round.

I don't know what The End of Innocence even means. There never was Innocence.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 20:01

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:34

goose 5 wrote: ↑26 May 2026, 19:31 I can't agree that it was the end of innocence.

Especially considering Kennedy was killed shortly before this. Something tells me that was a more traumatic moment for people that Ali vs Liston 2.

Well, which event you guys consider as the End of the Innocence?

John Lennon got shot and murdered.
John F. Kennedy assassination.
Martin Luther King Jr assassination.
Clay vs Liston II.
Argentina 6, Peru 0 in the 1978 World Cup semifinal round.

1989. The release of the Don Henly song.

Was Peru some kind of a football power ?

Eve tempted Adam with that apple.
End of innocence

Expug wrote: ↑27 May 2026, 15:02 Eve tempted Adam with that apple.
End of innocence

I read the Bible and it didn't say apple. It was the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now, what fruit that was? I don't know.

goose 5 wrote: ↑27 May 2026, 12:28 Was Peru some kind of a football power ?

Yeah, this is what I want to know!

The end of innocence was 1954 world cup finals where West Germany beat the absolute football powerhouse Hungary, which was never the same after that.