BoxRec

Does any fighter come to mind who was trained by a guy who just wasn't suited for him ?

- Mike Tyson after crooked Don King became his manager who appointed the trainer his first fight who was such an idiot that absent the ubiquitous Endswell, they had to use either rubber gloves or condoms filled with ice water.

Moreover, King had him on experimental psych sedatives that had him looking like a punch dummy zombie eating Buster Douglas' best punches. Nonetheless, later in the fight Mike came around to drop Buster for a 14 count that's a certified KO by the rules, but fornicate Boxing Rules. So Buster gets up and floors him again and gets the KO win.

The background was press was reporting that Tyson was looking shyte in sparring, floored by McCall resulting in most every Bookie in the world refusing to take bets because the fight was so fixed.

It never got any better for Tyson who managed to hang on a long time on sheer talent and physiology.

From what I’ve read, Marvis Frazier might have been better off with someone other than Joe as head trainer. His Dad tried to make him Smokin’ Joe MK2 instead of focusing on the boxing skills that had make him effective as an amateur.

Everybody that was ever trained by Roy Jones Jr.

Whoever trained Hasim Rahman for his rematch with Lennox Lewis gave some of the single stupidest advice I've ever seen when they told him to stick his arms straight out as a defensive tactic. He was doing exactly that at the moment he was KO'd.

Whoever was training Mickey Bey for his bout with John Molina that told him he needed to go out and win that 10th round decisively when he was up 9 rounds to 0.

Going out and trying to take it to Molina in the 10th got him knocked out.

Laurent Dauthuille's cornermen during the 15th round against Jake LaMotta.

bwu wrote: ↑30 Jul 2026, 14:09 Laurent Dauthuille's cornermen during the 15th round against Jake LaMotta.

What happened there?

Eddie Futch may have been the wrong guy to train Duane Bobick. I remember reading in Sports Illustrated that, under Futch's tutelage, Bobick tried too hard to emulate Joe Frazier's style, which, supposedly, didn't come naturally too him.

It's also possible that Andy Smith may not have been the best trainer for Joe Bugner. My perception is based on stuff I read over the years in the boxing magazines.

Always hard to tell because we don't see the day to day. And how many times have we seen a trainer begging his fighter to lets his hands go and the guy just won't do it.

for one fight, I think Lou Duva cost Medrick Talor the first fight against Chavez by distracting him and he didn't listen to the referee and the fight was stopped.
Also, Gil Clancy cost De La Hoya the fight against Trinidad. He told him to cost the final three rounds because he was so far ahead. Well, he should have been enough ahead but the judges didn't see it that way. Clancy should have known better.

A lot of the time when they're telling a guy to let his hands go, what they maybe oughta be telling him is how he can avoid the punches he's being countered with because if a guy is "just not letting his hands go", and he's not huffing and puffing due to poor stamina, he's keeping his hands to himself because he's afraid of what's coming back.

I'm sure "just letting your hands go" is a lot easier said than done when you're gonna be eating counters everytime you do it.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑30 Jul 2026, 14:26

bwu wrote: ↑30 Jul 2026, 14:09 Laurent Dauthuille's cornermen during the 15th round against Jake LaMotta.

What happened there?

He had it won on points and he was trying to stay away. His cornermen told him to engage and he ended up being knocked out with about 13 seconds to go.

Howard Davis Jr, indeed.

yeah, if that even showed some potential talent.
some of the trainers would have them fight a bunch of no-bodies and then when a really big pay day comes along.
They'd probably send them out in front of a "Mack-Truck" for the BIG pay -day.

I don’t know if Gil Clancy hindered Jerry Quarry when he fought Ken Norton , but he sure let him take way too many shots. Unnecessary damage Jerry took.
After a couple rounds it was obvious that Jerry’s punches weren’t hurting Kenny and Nortons punches were doing real damage.
Clancy was a good trainer by all accounts but I don’t think he ever had any fights.
It’s definitely not a prerequisite for a trainer to have any fights but at times I wonder if a guy really realizes how much damage his guy is taking if he never has taken punishment.
That’s another conversation.

Expug wrote: ↑03 Aug 2026, 15:19 I don’t know if Gil Clancy hindered Jerry Quarry when he fought Ken Norton , but he sure let him take way too many shots. Unnecessary damage Jerry took.
After a couple rounds it was obvious that Jerry’s punches weren’t hurting Kenny and Nortons punches were doing real damage.
Clancy was a good trainer by all accounts but I don’t think he ever had any fights.
It’s definitely not a prerequisite for a trainer to have any fights but at times I wonder if a guy really realizes how much damage his guy is taking if he never has taken punishment.
That’s another conversation.

Interesting post. I have question.

Are you saying that, after two rounds, Clancy should have told Quarry to back off, counter-punch, and play it safe, even if that concedes the upper-hand to Norton? Or, are you saying that Quarry was clearly finished after the second round, and that Clancy should have pulled him out of the fight anytime after that, maybe sooner than later?

But didn't Jerry Quarry only have about 2 weeks to train for that fight with Norton ?
He took IT on last minute noticed and claimed he was drunk when he had answered the phone
to agree to the fight.

Quarry handled Norton easily in the gym- knocking him out. I suspect Quarry was way overconfident in taking the Norton bout.

- Any fighter trained by the self inflated blowhard Teddy Atlas...

Joson wrote: ↑03 Aug 2026, 17:28

Expug wrote: ↑03 Aug 2026, 15:19 I don’t know if Gil Clancy hindered Jerry Quarry when he fought Ken Norton , but he sure let him take way too many shots. Unnecessary damage Jerry took.
After a couple rounds it was obvious that Jerry’s punches weren’t hurting Kenny and Nortons punches were doing real damage.
Clancy was a good trainer by all accounts but I don’t think he ever had any fights.
It’s definitely not a prerequisite for a trainer to have any fights but at times I wonder if a guy really realizes how much damage his guy is taking if he never has taken punishment.
That’s another conversation.

Interesting post. I have question.

Are you saying that, after two rounds, Clancy should have told Quarry to back off, counter-punch, and play it safe, even if that concedes the upper-hand to Norton? Or, are you saying that Quarry was clearly finished after the second round, and that Clancy should have pulled him out of the fight anytime after that, maybe sooner than later?

Not really any type of strategy issue from Clancy was a problem. At least I don’t think so..
I thought after watching the fight in its entirety, that Gil should’ve pulled Quarry out of there before he took that much damage.

trainers teach boxers how to overthink.

I always wondered why Duane Bobick left Bobby Lewis in Denver (around 1975)and went to Philadelphia.

JC wrote: ↑29 Jul 2026, 16:27 From what I’ve read, Marvis Frazier might have been better off with someone other than Joe as head trainer. His Dad tried to make him Smokin’ Joe MK2 instead of focusing on the boxing skills that had make him effective as an amateur.

I was training in Frazier’s gym when Marvis started as an amateur. George Benton was his trainer and he had Marvis boxing good not I like Joe because he had a different build than Joe. At that time Frazier’s gym was the Mecca of boxing gyms. Boxers were coming from all over the country to train there. To name a few, Spinks brothers, Duane Bobbick, Tex Cobb, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Jerry Martin and others. Joe got greedy and up the fees for all boxers and trainers. As a result, several trainers like Benton left Frazier’s and opened their own gyms. That’s when Joe took over training Marvis and changed his style to one that did not suit him.

JMac wrote: ↑08 Aug 2026, 13:04

JC wrote: ↑29 Jul 2026, 16:27 From what I’ve read, Marvis Frazier might have been better off with someone other than Joe as head trainer. His Dad tried to make him Smokin’ Joe MK2 instead of focusing on the boxing skills that had make him effective as an amateur.

I was training in Frazier’s gym when Marvis started as an amateur. George Benton was his trainer and he had Marvis boxing good not I like Joe because he had a different build than Joe. At that time Frazier’s gym was the Mecca of boxing gyms. Boxers were coming from all over the country to train there. To name a few, Spinks brothers, Duane Bobbick, Tex Cobb, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Jerry Martin and others. Joe got greedy and up the fees for all boxers and trainers. As a result, several trainers like Benton left Frazier’s and opened their own gyms. That’s when Joe took over training Marvis and changed his style to one that did not suit him.

I remember the boxing magazines covering Marvis Frazier's amateur debut, back in the early months of 1977. So you were there? You must have seen Duane Bobick, Eddie Futch, and Joe Frazier preparing Duane for the upcoming Ken Norton fight, to be held in May. Of course, Norton blew Duane away in just 58 seconds.

Were you privy to gym training scenes - or maybe inside promoter/manager/agent talk - about why Frazier even allowed this fight to happen in the first place? A lot of people (including me) knew from the start that Bobick simply wasn't ready for Norton, probably never would be, and should have side-stepped this fight.

Duane Bobick was always open for a right hand swing even before Norton.

JMac wrote: ↑08 Aug 2026, 13:04

JC wrote: ↑29 Jul 2026, 16:27 From what I’ve read, Marvis Frazier might have been better off with someone other than Joe as head trainer. His Dad tried to make him Smokin’ Joe MK2 instead of focusing on the boxing skills that had make him effective as an amateur.

I was training in Frazier’s gym when Marvis started as an amateur. George Benton was his trainer and he had Marvis boxing good not I like Joe because he had a different build than Joe. At that time Frazier’s gym was the Mecca of boxing gyms. Boxers were coming from all over the country to train there. To name a few, Spinks brothers, Duane Bobbick, Tex Cobb, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Jerry Martin and others. Joe got greedy and up the fees for all boxers and trainers. As a result, several trainers like Benton left Frazier’s and opened their own gyms. That’s when Joe took over training Marvis and changed his style to one that did not suit him.

That must have been a great experience. I imagine you must have seen a lot of top-notch sparring there. Who was your trainer? Did you get to see Benton's training much?

JC wrote: ↑10 Aug 2026, 15:44 [quote=JMac post_id=6217333 time=<a href="tel:1786208671">1786208671</a> user_id=13001]
[quote=JC post_id=6215575 time=<a href="tel:1785356825">1785356825</a> user_id=2596]
From what I’ve read, Marvis Frazier might have been better off with someone other than Joe as head trainer. His Dad tried to make him Smokin’ Joe MK2 instead of focusing on the boxing skills that had make him effective as an amateur.

I was training in Frazier’s gym when Marvis started as an amateur. George Benton was his trainer and he had Marvis boxing good not I like Joe because he had a different build than Joe. At that time Frazier’s gym was the Mecca of boxing gyms. Boxers were coming from all over the country to train there. To name a few, Spinks brothers, Duane Bobbick, Tex Cobb, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Jerry Martin and others. Joe got greedy and up the fees for all boxers and trainers. As a result, several trainers like Benton left Frazier’s and opened their own gyms. That’s when Joe took over training Marvis and changed his style to one that did not suit him.
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That must have been a great experience. I imagine you must have seen a lot of top-notch sparring there. Who was your trainer? Did you get to see Benton's training much?
[/quote]
My trainer was a guy named Sam Hickman. Great guy, fun to talk to. As a trainer he was ok. I was a 19 yr old college kid with no experience. He taught me the basics but I quickly realized I was in a gym full of great boxers, many who had really good trainers. After 5:00 pm the gym was packed with pros who had to work real jobs to make money. I used to go in when I was done classes which was earlier. That was the best time because not as many people and the ones there were the better pros and some amateurs like me.
I watched Jimmy Young everyday training for the Foreman fight. He had a big 290lb sparring partner and Young was practicing rope-a-dope like Ali did. I told everybody I knew to bet on him. Most said I was crazy but I knew. Funny thing is I didn’t bet because I didn’t have any money in those days but the few friends that did thanked me. lol
I used to see the Spinks brothers every day. I would talk to Michael about the Olympics because that was my unrealistic dream. He was cool but Leon was like talking to a wall. You couldn’t understand a word he said. Bennie Briscoe was there every day. He was friendly to me. Marvis and I used to talk a lot. He went to high school with my cousin. I went to the golden gloves to watch him fight at the Blue Horizon. It was a great place for boxing. I used to be amazed watching a young Meldrick Taylor. He was like 13 but you could tell he was going to be a star. A story for another time but I ended up as a substitute teacher in Philly schools and I went to Meldrick’s high school many times. At that time, I was no longer boxing but had got into R/J’ing amateur boxing and would see him at local shows. During the summers, I would work as a tour leader taking foreigners around the US on camping trips. I happened to be in Vegas at the same time as the Olympic box-offs when Meldrick made the team. He had no family there and we hooked up after the banquet they had and went out for food and sat talking until late in the night. He was just 18, made the Olympic team and had nobody from home there with him.
My trainer was looking for the next pro and I wasn’t going to be it so he didn’t spend a lot of time with me. I learned more by watching the great boxers and listening to the other trainers if I could get close enough without them telling me to piss off.
There’s other stories, one I’ve mentioned before like when my trainer put me in with Dwight Qawi for sparring before my 1st amateur fight. Watching Joe Frazier hit the heavy bag was scary how hard he hit. I used to think how can another human take that punch.
As for pros like Bobbick and Tex Cobb, I saw them but not regularly. They may have trained earlier in the day. If I knew then what I know now about trainers like Benton and Futch, I would have paid even more attention.
Fun experience in my life.