BoxRec

In homage to a recent Lennox Lewis thread in which a poster compared (among other things) Mike Tyson's win over "prime Marvis Frazier" to LL's over "prime Zeljko Mavrovic," I thought BotP needed a "Prime Marvis Frazier" thread.

So please post your thoughts on (and tributes to) the power, the glory, the 2-fisted dynamite that was "Prime Marvis Frazier" here...

I take it that you don't think much of Marvis!.... he wasn't a bad fighter actually, but was grossly mismanaged by big Joe!. Should have been fighting at Cruiserweight for at least early part of career and why the hell was he thrown into a fight with Holmes so early!... crazy!.
Watch Frazier vs Broad and you'll see that Marvis was a entertaining fighter who may have matured into a genuine contender at least at Cruiserweight had he been given the chance.

silkov wrote:I take it that you don't think much of Marvis!

No, not at all, I think he was a decently talented fighter who wasn't blessed with the skills or heart of his old man and who was effectively thrown to the wolves by his overambitious father and handlers.

I just thought the phrase "Prime Marvis Frazier" was so overblown as to be hilarious - nothing against Marvis himself.

From what I remember he had a decent Amutuer career and was a busy hardworking fighter like Joe only minus the power... the way his career was steered was really crinimal... he was thrown in with Holmes while still a novice pro and then a bit later on he was chucked in with Tyson!!!.
Moved properly he may have done something at Cruiserweight and his wins over Broad and Bugner showed he had talent even at heavy but its a hell of a leap from Bugner to Holmes!.
Bugner himself said after his fight with Marvis something like he hoped they wouldn't rush him.

From what I've read Marvis was an opposite type to the old man as a boxer but old Joe wanted him to be a carbon copy of himself, something which just wasn't within Marvis

silkov wrote:why the hell was he thrown into a fight with Holmes so early!... crazy!..

I read an interview with Joe and Marvis Frazier recently where they stated that the reason Marvis was rushed as a professional was due to a medical problem something along the lines of a trapped nerve in his spine which did not bode well for a long punishing career.

By all accounts Marvis was a very good and highly skilled amateur fighter but got KO'd by James Broad (I think without checking).

Papa Joe has claimed that he changed his sons style for the professional ranks because it's all about the money and nobody pays to watch a jab and dance type fighter (or words to that effect).

I thought Marvis beat James Broad?

bollox wrote:I thought Marvis beat James Broad?

Maybe they split a few fights? But I am sure it was Broad who stopped him in a fight.

His only 2 pro losses were to Tyson and Holmes (and yes, I did check)

KOJOE90 wrote:

bollox wrote:I thought Marvis beat James Broad?

Maybe they split a few fights? But I am sure it was Broad who stopped him in a fight.

I think Broad stopped Marvis when the two fought as Amuters, then Marvis got revenge when they met as pros winning a hard fought decision.
I remember hearing that Marvis had been out of the ring for some time before the Broad fight after a op on a trapped nerve in his neck.
As for the change in style Marvis was too small to be a jab and move artist at Heavyweight. Joes take on it is strange though, Jabbers don't make money! hasn't he heard of Muhammad Ali!!!??... 8)

Excuses, excuses. Broad-Axe waxed Marvis in the amateurs with a ONE PUNCH KAYO.

As a pro, well Marvis beat Joe Bugner, James Broad, Quick Tillis, and Jose Ribalta, so he was no scrub. Combined with his long & successful amateur career, he has credentials you cant knock.

Instead of retiring in 1987 yes he should have moved down to the cruisers where there was less dynamite to explode on his chin.

As has been mentioned already, he was mismanaged by his father. Joe made two mistakes with him--encouraging Marvis to fight the same style he did, and having fight as a too-small heavyweight instead of a cruiser. He would have made that a heck of a division in the 1980s, with Qawi, DeLeon and Holyfield before he moved up.

He got his butt kicked by Holmes and a prime Tyson, and beat everyone else who ever stepped into a ring with him. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

Well, let's see, a manager's job is to (1) Negotiate purses for his fighter, preferably as much money as possible for the least physical damage possible (2) To procure a title shot for his fighter (3) To retire his fighter in good health.

So in 21 fights, Marvis made a couple of million bucks, fought for an alphabet crown, only lost two fights in which he was polished off swiftly and was not pounded on for long rounds, and he retired with good health. Not bad management is it?

He was a good fighter, not great like his old man, but a good boxer with light power and an average chin....

enrique wrote:Well, let's see, a manager's job is to (1) Negotiate purses for his fighter, preferably as much money as possible for the least physical damage possible (2) To procure a title shot for his fighter (3) To retire his fighter in good health.

So in 21 fights, Marvis made a couple of million bucks, fought for an alphabet crown, only lost two fights in which he was polished off swiftly and was not pounded on for long rounds, and he retired with good health. Not bad management is it?

He was a good fighter, not great like his old man, but a good boxer with light power and an average chin....

As far as his earnings and career went I think Marvis could have been a genuine contender at Cruiser and maybe have picked up a title.... then perhaps moved up to Heavy when he was older and more mature... he could have had a longer and more productive career. Also I've read that when he retired Marvis was blind in one eye, so if true he didn't leave the game totally unscathed unfortunately.

Marvis Frazier never did fight for a title - the WBC refused to sanction the 'fight' with Larry Holmes as being for their title.

KOJOE90 wrote:

silkov wrote:why the hell was he thrown into a fight with Holmes so early!... crazy!..

I read an interview with Joe and Marvis Frazier recently where they stated that the reason Marvis was rushed as a professional was due to a medical problem something along the lines of a trapped nerve in his spine which did not bode well for a long punishing career.

By all accounts Marvis was a very good and highly skilled amateur fighter but got KO'd by James Broad (I think without checking).

Papa Joe has claimed that he changed his sons style for the professional ranks because it's all about the money and nobody pays to watch a jab and dance type fighter (or words to that effect).

Marvis had that problem fixed early and it never bothered him again, but Joe rushed him because he said that Marvis was injury prone.

And the reason Joe Frazier changed Marvis' fighting style is because he said that the way he fought was good for the amateurs, but not a professional style.
He gave the example of Henry Tillman and Mike Tyson.

Saying Mike Tyson failed to make the olympic team, and fell to the defeat of Tillman twice in amateurs, but when they fought in the pro's Tillman was easily disposed of.

I'm prime Marvis Frazier, bitches!

I'm Rick James, bitches!

Certain, KO by 1 vs James Broad to make the Olympics. Then, pro, reversed it by a decision. Marvis made HOW MUCH in his career?
I have a question. I am certain that Marvis once defeated LENNOX LEWIS in amateur. Even (believe it or not...) one time I called the GYM and got to talking to Marvis. (He wrote me a very "nice" letter after!). I ASKED Marvis about that! He acknowledged!
Anyone else remember that? Lennox was yet Pup..I suppose.

silkov wrote:I take it that you don't think much of Marvis!.... he wasn't a bad fighter actually, but was grossly mismanaged by big Joe!. Should have been fighting at Cruiserweight for at least early part of career and why the hell was he thrown into a fight with Holmes so early!... crazy!.
Watch Frazier vs Broad and you'll see that Marvis was a entertaining fighter who may have matured into a genuine contender at least at Cruiserweight had he been given the chance.

Agreed

-AND- if Marvis had "MATCHED" Michael Spinks instead..he may of won. Also: Vs Holmes was ONE-SIDED FIGHT. I don't call that a MISMATCH.
I'm wrong? I have always had this view- point concerning Holmes-Frazier. And as every fan knows, lot of times matches do go that way between evenly matched opponents. [Not saying they were even...Certain Marvis "underdog!"]

When was Cruiserweight started by-the-way?

ImranSarwar wrote:When was Cruiserweight started by-the-way?

1979.

Syntax Error wrote:

ImranSarwar wrote:When was Cruiserweight started by-the-way?

1979.

Thanks! Probably the Frazier clan were not very interested in 'C' div. then because it was yet -WEAK- establishment.

ImranSarwar wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

ImranSarwar wrote:When was Cruiserweight started by-the-way?

1979.

Thanks! Probably the Frazier clan were not very interested in 'C' div. then because it was yet -WEAK- establishment.

Spot on.

The division was 'z' list then & nothing much has changed today.

Every great Cruiserweight has either gone up to HW or wished they had.