BoxRec

Wow this would be the heavyweight history title fantasy fight:

My prediction: louis had trouble against conn and walcott. its my belief even though he has toruble with crowders that he actually has troubel with boxers so ali would have been a lot of work for him and he would frustrae louis. BUt, Joe louis had power like no other, he made guys dance when he hit them and he broke max's back with a body blow. Joe louis could box and had an excellent jab as well as devastig right and left hook. Its my belief that Ali would outbox Joe and then JOe louis would catch him and Knock out ali in the 13th round. Remembe this is the 66 ali who was much better but didnt have as good as a chin so he could be taken especially by a guy like louis.

Louis did not have more power than Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers... so why do you think he'd ko Ali?. If Louis fought the '67 Ali I doubt he'd manage to land a decent punch, certainly nothing that would trouble him.
Against the older Ali Louis may land more but would not Ko Ali... Ali had probably the best chin of all the champs also heart and great recupertive powers... theres no way I see Louis koing Ali.
Ali wins by decision or late round stoppage.

Louis def. had more power then Frazier . . .Frazier had a great left hook but was more of an accumulation guy. Louis had one punch KO power in either hand.

As ofr pure power, he perhaps didn't hit as hard as Foreman, and Shavers but his punching technique, ability to finish, and ability to punch in combination was much better then those two. He had the patience to box and the ferocity to slug. I see Louis catching a breaking Ali in the 8th round . . .

Were talking the peak ali,. the one who danced bobbed weaved and boxed, not the 70's ali that took punches and proved hehad a chin. the 60's ali was prime ali but that prime ali also didnt have as good a chin as when he got older.

Dempseyfire is right hwne he said louis didnt have as much pure power. BUt he did have power in a different way. He had technique combinations, and snap in his punches and when he hit those big guys they didnt survive., Louis had a lot of power and pound for pound he minght have had the most power. Louis also had a very effective jab that busted a lot of people up and a good left hook which ali was suseptible too

Brockton,

chins do NOT get better with age. If anything they get worse. The chin is not a muscle that you can improve upon by training.
The more a fighter gets hit, the worse his chin gets. IT never gets better.

i UNDERSTAND, its just when he was younger he hot knocked down by sonny banks, henry cooper, and a bit later by frazier. but after frazier, he got hit by the likes of lyle, foreman, shavers, and he still never went down., the only other guy that could was chuck wepner and that really wasnt even a knockdown so its my opnion that his chin was better as he got older. i dont know the reason.

Perhaps it was because he did not get hit clean? Even a partially blocked punch is better absorbed than a totally unblocked punch.
His chin did not get better. He just defended and blocked (partially and totally) better.

Another point: wiht experience you learn what kind of punches to expect in a given siutation so you can pre-empt it by blockage, moving the head a bit out of the way, or just buckling down for the impact. The unseen or unexpected punch, even if lighter has more of an effect.

Brockton, I have to agree with jab. It's a pretty big assumption to think Ali's chin got better with age. So what if he got knocked down in his prime. He got back up didn't he. That's the test of great chin, the ability to get back up. Louis would be to immobile for a prime Ali and wouldn't touch the 65-67 version. If he met Ali after NAM, he may get close but still wouldn't KO him. Ali wins a decison or late TKO

silkov wrote:Louis did not have more power than Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers... so why do you think he'd ko Ali?. If Louis fought the '67 Ali I doubt he'd manage to land a decent punch, certainly nothing that would trouble him.
Against the older Ali Louis may land more but would not Ko Ali... Ali had probably the best chin of all the champs also heart and great recupertive powers... theres no way I see Louis koing Ali.
Ali wins by decision or late round stoppage.

Yeah right lmao.....you are really underating Louis' power. Do you even have any idea of who he is.

walsh ur wrong. I think Louis may beat him in his prime the 66 ali , but it could go either way. IF ur talknig about louis vs the 70s ali, theres no question, joe louis wins.

Silkov, I think u underate Louis Power and need to watch him some more. Just cause he didnt throw winding up big bombs like foreman didnt mean he had as much power. Joe louis had incredible snap in his punches and he threw them inside and they were short crips punches. It is my opinion Joe Louis had a better right hand than earnie shavers and if ur judging the era, Let it be known Joe Louis knocked out some pretty big guys liek Both max and giant buddy baer, abe simon, just for example. He had amazing power and the only guy i have seen having as much power as him is tyson, cause when both of those guys hit the other man, the opponent does funny things and delay reactions going down. ALso Louis showed true power the night when he nearly broke schmellings back. Even an aging Joe was able to KO a tough jersey Joe when jersey tried to slug it out with him. They dont have that sheer brute force power like a foreman but I think Joe Louis has just as much power as any heavyweight who ever lived if not the most power. Watch some more of his fights Silkov.

Earnie shavers HIMSELF SAID IN HIS BOOK THAT JOE LOUIS HAD THE BEST RIGHT HAND OF ALL TIME.

Earnie shavers HIMSELF SAID IN HIS BOOK THAT JOE LOUIS HAD THE BEST RIGHT HAND OF ALL TIME.

Thats just another persons opinion. Someone most likely paying homage to his hero. 60's or 70's Ali would decision Louis or late round tko. 60's Ali was just too qiuck, had too good of a jab and probably after Baer, punched harder than anyone Louis ever fought. 70's Ali would have frustrated Louis and was still too potent a combination of speed and power for Louis to handle.
Even though Louis is technically a better combination puncher than Frazier and Foreman, he did not have the physical strenght, chin, or fight aggresively enough, to get inside of Ali to make it work.

Louis was a very fast handed heavyweight, throwing remarkably tight concise and hard fast punches, and he would have pressed Ali constantly, shuffling forward behind his jab. Conn was a boxer far suyperior to Ali; how could he not be, having learned his trade against top level MIDDLEWEIGHTS- not the palookas of boxing. Walcott fought an entirely different style than Ali and was a much better puncher.
Ali made a lot of technical errors- for instance waving his right hand around while he jabbed. Norton effectively exploited this in trhree fights against Ali, who couldn't figure that one out. He also pulled- leaned- straight back from hooks which is a stupid way of doing business and the reason all the legitimate kds he suffered were from left hooks. Ali scored well by leaning away, his opponents reaching and him slapping them silly. Louis would not reach
Ali never fought anybody that had close to the mix of speed power and combination punching that Louis had, and who had a ramrod jab that would nullify the jab of Ali. Shavers sent his bombs via postal service and Frazier was a one handed hit 'em all day to drop 'em puncher, and while his chin was solid Ali was never hit with combinatoions of clean punches like Louis would hit him. Louis outjabs Ali, pinning him on the ropes regularly like Norton did and for the same reason, and works well to the body. Late in the fight catches Ali pulling back (like Cooper and Banks did) and hurt him with a hook and floors him with a right . Louis late @13th tko or ko.

Conn was a boxer far suyperior to Ali

Ali was bigger, much faster and had a much better jab than Conn, Also he was physically stronger and had a much better defense. if Conn troubled Louis, imagine what Ali would have done.

Walcott fought an entirely different style than Ali and was a much better puncher.

Walcott did not punch harder than Ali, it appeared that way because he fought smaller fighter. Walcot had good movement but in order to land a punch he had to stop momentarily to get inside, which for example allowed Louis to catch him with the combination that put him to sleep in the second fight.

Ali never fought anybody that had close to the mix of speed power and combination punching that Louis

And Louis never faced an opponent like Ali, someone bigger than him who was also much faster and wasnt going to be knocked out a well placed combination. Besides Baer, no one Louis fought hit him harder than Ali would have.

The 60's version of Ali was two fast for Louis. He'd shuffle jab and avoid Louis' powershot and win comfortably by something like 10-4-1 on the round system. Don't think there'd be any knockdowns.

And now to really let the fireworks begin. If it's the Ali that showed up in Kinshasa, he knocks out the Brown Bomber around the 6th round.

the one wrote

Besides Baer, no one Louis fought hit him harder than Ali would have.

are u saying muhammad ali hits harder than rocky marciano???


in fact i could name other guys that hit harder than ali. tony galento, buddy baer, jersey joe walcott, max schmeling, abe simon, and even primo carnera.

- walcott hit harder than ali IMO. most of walcotts knockdowns or knockouts were one punch which shows u his power. he knocked down or knocked out bivins, ray, louis(3 times), marciano, charles, maxim, oma,sheppard etc all with one punch. either a sneaky right, or hard short fast left hook

ali IMO did not knockout sonny liston, liston gave up. that was not a KO punch, certianly not on the jaw of liston. ali knocked out foreman by tiring him. ali knocked guys down or out by accumulation of punches in flurries. walcott did not need that to knock guys down or out.


u say walcott knocked out smaller men???? are u saying that the bigger guys chins are better than a 185lb marciano or 210lb joe louis?

I am the very one who thinks Ali was great but overrated. Still though, at both of their bests, I don't see Louis winning this fight. He could get lucky and KO him, but very doubtful, I'd say Ali by UD or late TKO.

silkov wrote:Louis did not have more power than Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers... so why do you think he'd ko Ali?. If Louis fought the '67 Ali I doubt he'd manage to land a decent punch, certainly nothing that would trouble him.
Against the older Ali Louis may land more but would not Ko Ali... Ali had probably the best chin of all the champs also heart and great recupertive powers... theres no way I see Louis koing Ali.
Ali wins by decision or late round stoppage.

louis without a doubt has enough power and accuracy to KO ali. louis was VERY hard hitting and he would swarm and bring his opponents into submission. he just has to land on ali which would be the main problem. louis never saw anyone dancing around in the ring like a lightweight.

hawaiianpunch wrote:I am the very one who thinks Ali was great but overrated. Still though, at both of their bests, I don't see Louis winning this fight. He could get lucky and KO him, but very doubtful, I'd say Ali by UD or late TKO.

IMO its almost impossible to overrate Ali. HE DOMINATED. won everybig fight of his career except for 1. dominated the best era of boxing history. Was flat out unbeatable before his lay-off. and i mean unbeatable. One of the smartest boxers of all time. came back and beat some of the best heavyweights ever, when he was physically past his prime. he did his best work while physically past his prime. but his brilliance overcame this, tactics such as the rope-a-dope.

Ali should have retired after the earnie shavers fight in 1977. After this Fight he was 55-2!!.... good lord. 1 loss came to ken norton, argueable top 15 of all time, after ali broke his jaw he still almost won, lost by SD. then of course ali lost to frazier, who is argueable a top 5 heavyweight of all time. When you really look at Ali's record. you see that there will never be a more accomplished boxer in the history of the sport. he is by far and away the most physically capable, and mentally capable fighter of all time. P4P he is the greatest, because he fought the best division in the best era.

i have been enlightened. I will take a 1967 Ali over any man that walked the face of the earth at any age. Anyone think of someone who beats him? i just dont see it.

are u saying muhammad ali hits harder than rocky marciano???

I didnt count the rock because he beat Louis at his most faded.

tony galento, buddy baer, jersey joe walcott, max schmeling, abe simon, and even primo carnera.

None of these guys hit harder than Ali, when he chose to stand and fight.

walcott hit harder than ali IMO.

Why? What real impressive ko did Walcott have? His knockdowns of a Louis? Even in his prime, Louis was knocked down several times. The knockdown of Marciano? The Rock was charging in and got caught with a beautiful left hook.
Did he stay down? His knockout of still green future light heavyweight great Harold Johnson? In my opinion his most impressive ko was to Ezzard Charles, an all time great light heavyweight champion, perhaps the greatest, but a small an slightly faded heavyweight.

u say walcott knocked out smaller men???? are u saying that the bigger guys chins are better than a 185lb marciano or 210lb joe louis?

Walcott didnt knock either of them out.

maxim, oma,sheppard

are you kidding me with these three? like i said these guys were all smaller than Walcott, who was a small heavyweight himself. None of them were serious threats, and only shepard was knocked out.

Ali would win. He was much faster, unlikely that Louis would catch him in the later rounds. He wouldn't knock Ali out anyway. More likely that Ali would stop Louis with an accumilation of clean punches. Either Ali by late stoppage or by easy decision.
Louis is probably the # 2 heavyweight ever, but this is the one fighter he wouldn't beat.

tiredoldngrey wrote:Louis was a very fast handed heavyweight, throwing remarkably tight concise and hard fast punches, and he would have pressed Ali constantly, shuffling forward behind his jab. Conn was a boxer far suyperior to Ali; how could he not be, having learned his trade against top level MIDDLEWEIGHTS- not the palookas of boxing. Walcott fought an entirely different style than Ali and was a much better puncher.
Ali made a lot of technical errors- for instance waving his right hand around while he jabbed. Norton effectively exploited this in trhree fights against Ali, who couldn't figure that one out. He also pulled- leaned- straight back from hooks which is a stupid way of doing business and the reason all the legitimate kds he suffered were from left hooks. Ali scored well by leaning away, his opponents reaching and him slapping them silly. Louis would not reach
Ali never fought anybody that had close to the mix of speed power and combination punching that Louis had, and who had a ramrod jab that would nullify the jab of Ali. Shavers sent his bombs via postal service and Frazier was a one handed hit 'em all day to drop 'em puncher, and while his chin was solid Ali was never hit with combinatoions of clean punches like Louis would hit him. Louis outjabs Ali, pinning him on the ropes regularly like Norton did and for the same reason, and works well to the body. Late in the fight catches Ali pulling back (like Cooper and Banks did) and hurt him with a hook and floors him with a right . Louis late @13th tko or ko.

tiredoldngrey I haven't seen much of louis.. but was he something similar to Tyson? You seem to know stuff and that sounds stupid probably.. but you know.. Id really like to know. It just seems to me that they had some tools similar .

Rory McCloskey wrote:

hawaiianpunch wrote:I am the very one who thinks Ali was great but overrated. Still though, at both of their bests, I don't see Louis winning this fight. He could get lucky and KO him, but very doubtful, I'd say Ali by UD or late TKO.

IMO its almost impossible to overrate Ali. HE DOMINATED. won everybig fight of his career except for 1. dominated the best era of boxing history. Was flat out unbeatable before his lay-off. and i mean unbeatable. One of the smartest boxers of all time. came back and beat some of the best heavyweights ever, when he was physically past his prime. he did his best work while physically past his prime. but his brilliance overcame this, tactics such as the rope-a-dope.

Ali should have retired after the earnie shavers fight in 1977. After this Fight he was 55-2!!.... good lord. 1 loss came to ken norton, argueable top 15 of all time, after ali broke his jaw he still almost won, lost by SD. then of course ali lost to frazier, who is argueable a top 5 heavyweight of all time. When you really look at Ali's record. you see that there will never be a more accomplished boxer in the history of the sport. he is by far and away the most physically capable, and mentally capable fighter of all time. P4P he is the greatest, because he fought the best division in the best era.

i have been enlightened. I will take a 1967 Ali over any man that walked the face of the earth at any age. Anyone think of someone who beats him? i just dont see it.

I did not mean Ali was overrated as a fighter, I think having him as a absolute #1 on a lot of top ten lists, thinking he'd beat all others all time is a stretch. Heck a lot of people here think Louis would beat him. He almost lost to Henry Cooper! I know he was past his prime, but Norton definately got the best of him in their fights and Norton is maybe top 20. Beating Liston and Foreman are impressive no doubt, but he fought down to his competition on occasion and I do think prime Louis or Tyson could stop him (even Prime Liston for that matter). I'm not saying they would, but they would definately have a chance.

hawaiianpunch wrote:...I do think prime Louis or Tyson could stop him (even Prime Liston for that matter).

Liston was 31 when he lost to Ali the first time, so I don't think he was exactly over the hill. He was made to order for Ali. Slow footed, at best average hand speed, and limited defensively. Obviously a very good fighter, but he lacked the speed to be a threat to even an older Ali.