BoxRec

Perhaps somebody can refresh my appalling memory here. I remember in 1991 Holyfield fought "Smokin" Bert Cooper, with Cooper coming in as a late sub and putting Evander on the canvas in a sterling effort. Looking at the BoxRec details I see Cooper was standing in for the Francesco Damiani, but that the Italian himself was a replacement for an injured Mike Tyson. I must admit I didn't think that Tyson v Holyfield had actually been made back then, I thought it was just mooted prior to Tyson's first jail term.

The bout had been set (posters were even made) but then Tyson got injured, and then he went to jail.

Tyson would have been better then he was in 96 but the thing is so would have Evander.

Holyfield TKO 7 in an exciting fight.

Evander was always better than Tyson

If a crude lumbering one dimensional Razor Ruddock was able to knock Tyson around pretty good in spots in 1991 Imagine what a lightnig fast Holyfield drilling him with multi-punch combinations would have done..

We don't really have to imagine just look at thier 1996 fight

Totally agree. Holyfield always beats Tyson. he wasn't scared of him, didn't believe the hype and reached right in and took his ehart away.

dempseyfire wrote:The bout had been set (posters were even made) but then Tyson got injured, and then he went to jail.

Tyson would have been better then he was in 96 but the thing is so would have Evander.

Holyfield TKO 7 in an exciting fight.

Tyson got injured to get out of the fight. Like Roy got injured to avoid Tua. Suddenly a motorcycle fell on his right hand.

Tyson had a very brief period of good performance: 1986-1988. Even then he fought some very questionalbe matches: like Holmes coming from retirement after 2 years, rusty as hell and with 2 weeks training (he was 38 and coming with 2 consecutive losses) and Spinks after 1.5 years out of the ring and rusty as hell and very fat, the higheest weight ever.

Holyfield, Buster Douglas, Lewis never bought into the hype aura surrounding Tyson because they looked at the quality of opposition he bowled over and didnt see anything that should worry them. They all proceeded to jab, counter, throw the right hand with authority, back him down and outmuscle him in clinches. There was no fear in any of these 3 and they methodically broke Tyson down and later koed him.

Another guy who gave Tyson a very good opposition was Razor Ruddock, who lost, but fought his heart out without fear and Tyson just couldnt make him tremble and give up mentally like so many of his foes.

Tyson was Mister Intimidation. But he didnt really have either the speed or the power people thought he had. The top fighters who didnt buy into the hype eithers beat him or took him the distance. He was good, but not as good as many thought. Should be in the top 10, perhaps, but no higher than number 10.

Tyson avoided all the greats of the 1990s or lost to the ones he fought.

jab wrote:Like Roy got injured to avoid Tua. Suddenly a motorcycle fell on his right hand.

Was RJJ v Tua ever made? I didn't think it was. The closest I thought Roy came to fighting a heavyweight pre-Ruiz was against Buster Douglas around 1997.

No it wasnt made. That damn Bike fell over Roys right hand at the most needed moment to prevent anything geling in form of a contract.

Roy also talked in mid 90s of fighting Botha but he got his senses back and avoided the big guy. Roy wasnt stupid. he only fought guys he knew he will beat. And while Botha wasnt much of a heavyweight force, Roy knew that he will land enough leather to hurt and stop him. He foguth Ruiz at the right moment and was lucky to get a ref that will stop Ruiz from hugging the life out of him. that bear would have smothered Roy and koed him if the ref were sleeping and let him do his smothering thing.

Roy fought the worst title holder at the right time: coming after a string of losses and a messi divorce. But he was smart enough to realise he didnt have any future at heavy and went back to 175. On second thought, if he went back to 190 he would have cleaned that class and wouldnt have had to lose any weight: he weighed 193 for Ruiz fight and had some 3lb of clothes on him. So he would have fit snuggly at 190 without any weight loss and remaained fit in that class. He would have avoided those messy matches with Tarver and Johnson and might have retired undefeated (that is discounting that DQ he had at 175, which was not a real ring loss)

At 190 (since then raised to 200lb) he would have had some good fights with Toney, Jirov etc and arguable won them all. Too bad he went all the way to 175.

I think Tyson claimed a rib injury for the first proposed Holyfield fight, or was it a chest infection?

Tyson has pulled out of so many fights over the years it's hard to keep track.

There's a Tyson-Holyfield story in a book I used to have - during the '84 olympics the US team were having a game of pool and they were playing 'winner stays on'. Tyson lost to someone and Holyfield was next in line. Tyson refused to hand over the pool cue and things became slightly heated. According to Holyfield the conversation went along the lines of:

A (then) prelude to Holyfield - Tyson, the fight?

Holyfield: "it's my turn to play a game"

Tyson: "I'm not giving you the stick "

Holyfield: "but they're the rules. it's my turn so give me the stick "

Tyson: "no. you want it? come and make me give it to you :x "

Holyfield: "gimme the goddamn stick "

Tyson: "ok then "

Y'know, not to take anything away from a great fight by Buster Douglas, but I've always wondered if the specter of facing Holyfield next (who was a mandatory) may have messed with Tyson's head a bit going into the Douglas fight. Holyfield had been calling him out since winning (or was it not until unifying?) the cruiser title and was clearly not intimidated by Mike or anything else...then the rib injury was a fight was subsequently made--it's always made me wonder if Mister Intimidation wasn't a bit intimidated by the prospect of an opponent who couldn't be bullied.

While I still say Tyson is a top-10 all time HW -

I also say Tyson was made to order for Holyfield. Always was and always will be -

Tyson couldn't intimidate Holyfield and Holyfield could take his shots - Plus Evander always fights better if someone is willing to bring the fight to him (which is the only way Tyson knows to fight).

Tyson did use the rib injury to postpone the first fight in 1991 - I see the exact same result in 91 as there was in 96 - Perhaps a younger Holyfield gets Tyson out of there a little earlier than the 11th -

Holyfield was better than Tyson, that's was a piece of garbage I ever heard, Holyfield was never better than Tyson if they fought the first time in 1991 rather than 1996 in my opinion. Tyson will always be better than Holyfield unless Tyson changed his tactics from attacking him and used Holyfield's style against him like jabbing, throwing flurries, and ran. Holyfield should retire now, because of course he have a heart to fight, but he doesn't have a heart to win the fight against young fighters right now.

I believe Holyfield proved he was better than Tyson TWICE.

Roy Jones used to give lip service about how he couldn't get up/motivated for lesser type fighters.

I don't know about Roy, I barely trust a word he speaks...but that mentality describes Holyfield to a "T". It's plain as day.

Holyfield would have KO'ed Tyson in '91 faster than he did in '96. There is NO doubt about it. Or: Old-Ass-Holyfield was going to KO a tip-top Tyson in their REMATCH faster than he did in their first fight anyway.

sidenote: Mike Tyson is a glorified brawler. A bit of a stiff at times. Holyfield knocked him out, toe-to-toe...and some people actually wonder about Marciano vs. Tyson, a popular subect lately. Marciano KO8 Tyson.

Professor X, it still garbages to me, but of course Holyfield beats Tyson twice in real life in 96 and 97. Frankly, if Tyson's old trainer Gus D'Amato was still alive in his middleweight in his 40s and 50s he would help Tyson beat Holyfield in his boxing style rather than his famous slugging tactics. If Holyfield decided to slugged with Tyson rather than jabbing him at long range, it would be his mistake that Tyson would win that slugfest.

Actually, Holyfield beat Tyson by countering him at close range . .he def. didn't stick and move to victory.

And what are you talking about D'Amato as a middleweight in his 40s and 50s???

kovit wrote:Professor X, it still garbages to me, but of course Holyfield beats Tyson twice in real life in 96 and 97. Frankly, if Tyson's old trainer Gus D'Amato was still alive in his middleweight in his 40s and 50s he would help Tyson beat Holyfield in his boxing style rather than his famous slugging tactics. If Holyfield decided to slugged with Tyson rather than jabbing him at long range, it would be his mistake that Tyson would win that slugfest.

Never mind all that, how tall is Andrew Maynard??!?

But in answer to your original question, Hesketh: The fight was on...the contracts were signed...the promotions had begun...the bets were made, and Professor X was lining up the Tyson fans like sitting ducks (I just had to wait until ->'96 and '97<- to collect, is what came of it all).