BoxRec

We might be seeing the best heavyweights of all time now. Before everyone jumps on me, think about this. Roy Williams, 6-5, 235, heavyweight of the 60s-70s. Feared by all, sparring partner for Ali and others. Everyone feared him for his size and power. In the Holmes book, he mentions a sparring session in which Williams bangs Ali around in sparring because of something Ali did. Williams gave Holmes a hard fight, he gave Shavers a hard fight, breaking Shavers' jaw if I remember right. And Williams was just a sparring partner, never in top condition, never trained in a training camp, never had a trainer dedicated to his career, never had any advantages. Now think about all of the guys Williams' size and bigger fighting today. Some of these guys are good athletes, most are in good condition, they have trainers dedicated to their careers, and they are big and powerful. Guys like McCline, Whitaker, Grant, the Klitchko brothers, Lennox Lewis, and others. These guys would be tough for anyone to beat, ever. Holmes, Louis, all of them would have a hard time with these guys because of their size and power. I'm not saying that these guys are better boxers than some of the great technicians of the past, but their size and power might make the difference. Instead of looking at a sorry heavyweight division, we might be looking at the toughest ever, at least in terms of who could have beaten who.

i agree while grant lacks heart and skills and experience his gigantic proportions would help him defeat alot of boxings past, then you put a giant with speed, skill of some sort, raw power, and a corner and look out very few of the past fighters can beat em if any at all.

you consider a guy 235 is a medium sized heavyweight was able to slap ali around and break shavers' jaw just think what a bigger guy with determination could have done back in the day!

-i agree that this crop is far from the worst, if only because of sheer size-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ridiculous_Ray on 2002-01-21 10:32 ]</font>

for the record shavers, not a big man koed big roy williams

WHAT YOU'RE FORGETTING IS THAT ROY WILLIAMS ALSO HAD SKILL!!!!

all these big guys dont have much skill, and the few that do lack good chins.

williams had a cement chin, only earnie shavers, the most lethal punching heavyweight of all time, KOd him and that took 10 hellacious rounds to do so.

williams COULD NEVER get fights because everyone knew how tough he was and avoided him like the plague. he got fired by ali and many other training camps for being too damn tough.

earnie shavers admitted he wouldnt even go through philadelphia because he was scared he might run into roy.

roy tiger williams was tough as nails and would be way too much for todays big heavies. cement chin, tough attitude, power to put an oponent in orbit, LIGHTNING QUICK hands, had the guy been able to get more fights and stay active he wouldve likely knocked out shavers and possibly holmes, which holmes himself admitted.

also dont forget candy slim, aka jeff merritt, another 6'5'' ex con of don kings who was around at the same time and just as feared.

shattered earnie shavers jaw in a sparring session as payback, knocked out ernie terrell in one round, and scared many heavyweights to death. threw it away with drugs though. unlike roy williams who just couldnt get fights for being too dangerous.

boy if roy williams and jeff merritt were around today there wouldnt be any klitshkos, michael grants, whitakers, mcclines and all these other jokes. cant see anyone other than lewis being able to deal with them.

Here's my thoughts on the topic.

Sure, this era of fighters may beat the past era's of fighters because of sheer size, but if you put it in perspective, the same could've been said for the other era's...


Example: Frazier, Foreman, Ali, etc era could have an arguement to have beaten Dempsey, Tunney, Sharkey era because of the plain size advantage.

But, I still say this era is horrible. The fights aren't exciting, one punch and it's over, or jab for 12 rounds and be done. We need guys with tenacity, chin, and heart, and just go out there, and give it their all.

Overhand right, I hope you are right. I don't want to see the Hy.Wt.s turn into a division for guys who can't make the NFL/NBA. I still believe that guys like McCall can compete with the new big guys. A fighter just has to have a good chin be physically strong, and have enough punch to make them respect him. I have never had the opportunity to see Roy Williams in the ring. Network TV never showed his fights, but he is interesting. When Larry Holmes and Earnie Shavers speak of someone the way they do Roy Williams, there has to be something there. Does anyone know where there is any video of Williams?
By the way, the big heavy that I have been the most impressed with so far is McCline. He is as active in the ring as a small guy and so far has great stamina, he just doesn't seem to have a lot of power. It is funny how none of the new big guys with their Ken Norton physiques has shown one punch knock out power, but Jeff Merritt, who was tall, and skinny could kill with one punch.
If anyone has any of Williams' fights on tape, I would be willing to buy some.

Roy "Tiger" Williams was a good fighter who could absorb a ton of punishment. He was not a real big puncher, but did have real quick hands. His fight with Shavers is honestly crazier then any of the Rocky movies with Shavers being complelety pummeled and then coming back to knock Williams across the ring. I have the fight and it's a classic. Nothing else on Williams is on video. I do know that Williams hurt Holmes in the tenth of their fight, but nothing is available except for the Shavers fight.

For DL, and the others who think guys like Williams or the current, massive heavyweights would rule any era... I bring up Primo Carnera. The guy was 6'4" 260-270, was as equally good as Lennox, or any the current heavyweights, but was a punching bag for the great Joe Louis, who WOULD beat any fighter of any era. Baer and Sharkey also beat Carnera.

Big fighters are nothing new to boxing. Louis handled several big men; Abe Simon, Buddy Baer, Carnera. Size means nothing at all in most cases, especially if the fighter cannot take it. Tyson at his best was a smaller heavyweight, as was Holyfield.

those big guys im willing to wager wernt all that fast and wernt reknowned as Kayo artists, just really big guys who figured why not box, i doubt those guys trained all that hard either, i mean you look at those guys' bodies and they look like me, out of shape... point being is that while big heavyweights arnt new, big heavyweights who train seriously and try to rely on something other than just sheer size to get them through each fight, these guys are new...relatively.

now while they may have less talent than the boxer of other eras its not like they are just big dummies, they may be outclassed technically but that they are capable of making up with with larger mass.

and for those of you who dont think size means all that much, remember boxing has weight classes for a reason, size can more often than not make the difference in fights.

and we wont see a 'great' era in boxing until king is dead, lewis and tyson retire, vlad gets a heart and comes and promotes stateside and people realize that NFL, MLB, NBA athletes are boring in comparrison to college where people work hard. im not sure if this theory is correct but it seems to me that when people get contracts of gaurunteed amounts like in the 3 major us sports then they slack a bit and you can tell, but in boxing the guys on the lower levels put out more to make more money...same thing as in college sport, people trying to get those paydays. so once we get a crop of heavyweights who arnt making jack shit we'll have a new wave of spectacular heavyweight fights come in.

now if youll excuse me the crack pipe is calling

I don't think most of the large guys of the past would compare favorably to Lewis, McCline, etc. These guys are big, but if you didn't know they were big, that wouldn't be the first thing you noticed about them. They are agile, quick, well conditioned. It is stretching a point to compare them with Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer, etc. Those guys main attribute was their size.

JUSTIN, when u said primo carnera was just as good as lennox i lost all respect for u. primo was a big skilless joke. shame on u.

holmes v tiger williams was on the undercard of ali jimmy young, but strangely, no one seems to have it.

most tape trders have shavers williams though, and honestly, its one of the craziest fights you will ever see.

no one seems to have any jeff merritt though, remember he BEAT roy williams, christ he mustve been tough.

PS its not all about size. tucker, bonecrusher, mitch green, biggs were all 6'5'' but tyson did overpower them.

i met roy williams in montreal in 77. he was there as a sparring partener for leon spinks. big strong guy. the sparring sessions were wars. roy told me that he made good money as a sparring partener. i got the feeling that he did not train seriously and also had trouble with the law. but he was a real soft spoken guy. and he could fight. does anybody know what he is doing today. thank you. joe borden of canada.

Man, Shavers KO of Williams rocked!

Last i heard of Williams in the early 90's he was starring in B-grade porn flicks.

again size isnt everything but it plays a part in it. tyson had a style to disembowel taller fighers and he was brought up chopping giants down. you got guys from the past who were lucky to have fought and beat just one large heavy and the experience difference for specific situations is drastic imo

According to RING Feb 73, Williams pulled out of Foreman fight because of injury..........would it have been close?

phil

B-grade porn flicks? Too bad he wan't doing the double-d grade movies!

In any event, here is a link with a photo of him today -- now known as Saddiq, a singer in Philadelphia.

http://www.nextstepmag.com/arts_soundsofphil.htm

phil:

dont know if it wouldve been close. williams was one dangerous, sinister guy but i think foreman in 73 wouldve flattened him inside 5 rounds. i think he wouldve been way to powerful and aggressive. but tiger wouldve been more dangerous than frazier and norton were. i could see him even putting foreman down like lyle, with one of tigers lightning quick left hooks.

but in the end george foreman would definately prevail.

that picture of roy on that record label website has been up for years. where is "saddiq"s album then?

i agree. and lets not forget, these giants ARE NOT the norm in todays division, there are 5 or 6 high profile big heavyweights and only one has been proven as the real deal, lewis. so lets not go too far over the top, saying all the heavies these days are giant sized.

grant is a fraud, whitaker just lost, i'm sure mccline will do too. and both klitshkos have tried and failed against opposition FAR FAR less stern than louis, marciano, holmes.

BEING HUGE IS NOT AN ADVANTAGE IN ITSELF AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL!!

joe louis(210 pounds?)anihaillated primo carnera, who is no better or worse than whitaker, grant, mccline, v klitschko.

larry holmes(220 pounds) beat up giant gerry cooney, a far more formidable heavy than the gianst were talkin about today, with little trouble. incidently cooneys left hook i would favor heavily to expose most of todays top 10 barring lennox lewis.

20 yrs ago larry holmes, tim witherspoon, greg page, pinklon thomas, tony tubbs, mike weaver, mike dokes, trevor berbick and renaldo snipes were all around or just under 220 and 6'3" but theres no doubt in my mind they'd knockout about 9 of todays top 10 who might outweigh them by a meaningless 10 or so pounds. they had far more durability and stamina, as well as technical proficiency than todays heavies, who huff and puff over 6 and 8 rounders.

On 2002-01-22 19:09, Anonymous wrote:
i met roy williams in montreal in 77. he was there as a sparring partener for leon spinks. big strong guy. the sparring sessions were wars. roy told me that he made good money as a sparring partener. i got the feeling that he did not train seriously and also had trouble with the law. but he was a real soft spoken guy. and he could fight. does anybody know what he is doing today. thank you. joe borden of canada.

Hey Borden, i am also from Montreal...which part are you from ?

humanrobot, are you the twat who just got banned over on Boxing.com

If so, your insults, name-calling and bullshit won't wash on this site.

Try not to be a prick over here as well ...... please!

Talk about name calling. lol. And who are you??? If i call anybody names it is response to a direct verbal attack on me and that's a fact. Notice that i didn't respond to your attack.

Again, who are you ?

On 2002-03-04 18:44, Anonymous wrote:
humanrobot, are you the twat who just got banned over on Boxing.com

If so, your insults, name-calling and bullshit won't wash on this site.

Try not to be a prick over here as well ...... please!

And why are you hiding under and anonymous tag ? Check my posts over their sonny boy, i wasn't abusive to anybody that was abusive to me first.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones sonny boy.

I have the strange feeling that you may be that piece of crap moderator Bryan (from boxing.com. You have that same holier than though attitude.

_________________
I'm knocking out all bums!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: humanrobot on 2002-03-05 04:41 ]</font>

Well robot, you're carrying on where you left off at Boxing.com Antagonistic and incapable of understanding that other people's opinions may be just as valid as yours.

Hiding under the anonymous name? Well how about I call myself caninerobot, if some stupid nom de plume makes you feel better.

caninerobot