BoxRec

I know Sonny liston had connections to the mob and i watched the fight, on ESPN classics, the first fight between him and ali, where ali was complaining about his eyes burning, and everyone suspected that sonny was putting thigns on his gloves..was this a common thing for Sonny? or was he just so freaked out by Ali's continuous trash talking and crazy talking??

I haven't seen the fight myself but I have heard Bert Sugar say on tv that he did the same thing to Zora Foley

One of Liston's cornermen later said that this (putting an illegal, eye burning coagulent on his gloves) was a tactic Liston used on more than one occasion. In the Ali fight it is pretty clear that something was up, and if you watch Liston come out furious for the knockout all of a sudden in that round it is obvious he knows Ali can't see shit. When even that didn't work, Liston just quit.

-Dapa

Dapaper wrote:One of Liston's cornermen later said that this (putting an illegal, eye burning coagulent on his gloves) was a tactic Liston used on more than one occasion. In the Ali fight it is pretty clear that something was up, and if you watch Liston come out furious for the knockout all of a sudden in that round it is obvious he knows Ali can't see shit. When even that didn't work, Liston just quit.

-Dapa

I've read that too.What's really funny to me is that the people who insist that the fight was a fix from the start.I'ts MORE THAN OBVIOUS that as soon as Ali had trouble seeing Liston desperately tried to KO him,when he couldn't he quit.It makes you wonder if those people have even seen the fight at all.

I see it this way, Liston, Tyson, and Golota, all bullies who quit when going gets tough, but hey, don`t all bullies.

I view Liston as exceptionally tough...not dirty...Saw him throw a low blow or two, had points deducted against Machen...but generally speaking, Liston didn't have to fight dirty...most of his opponents didn't last long enough...by the time he fought Cassius Clay, he was some where between 32-40...nobody seems to know for sure...I don't hold anything against for giving up in that fight, he was getting embarrassed by a kid...the rematch was another story...

mrbassie wrote:I haven't seen the fight myself but I have heard Bert Sugar say on tv that he did the same thing to Zora Foley

And I think the Eddie Machen fight to, but I'm not too sure.

The stories of Liston blinding his opponents are highly exxagerated.

Angelo Dundee feels that the substance that got in Clay's eyes was the lotion they were putting on Liston's cut, and it rubbed off. That has happened in many fights before and since.

The films of Liston against Machen and Williams show no moment of his opponent having trouble seeing, and those opponents never claimed such. Some former Liston cornermen tried to make a buck and say that he used stuff on his gloves for several fights but it just doesn't bear out.

The only thing bad you can really say about Liston is...What happened in that Ali rematch? To me, everything else is explainable...and he was an excellent fighter through 1963...beat Patterson, beat everybody Patterson ducked...Machen, Folley, Big Cat...he looked as dominant and unbeatable at the end of '63 as Tyson did the end of '89...except Sonny was a whole lot older...

Didn't Tyson look beatable against Frank Bruno in 1989? I thought this fight was viewed as the beginning of his decline.

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Didn't Tyson look beatable against Frank Bruno in 1989? I thought this fight was viewed as the beginning of his decline.

I remember watching that fight on live TV...haven't seen it since...
Tyson may not have looked as good as usual...but he still KO'd Bruno...I don't remember thinking...Oh oh...Tyson's in decline and vulnerable...some people, in hindsight, have said something to that effect...at the time, I didn't see it...and I was never a Tyson fan (although I appreciated his enormous talent, at the time)...

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Didn't Tyson look beatable against Frank Bruno in 1989? I thought this fight was viewed as the beginning of his decline.

With Hindsight I view it as the start of his decline,

One thig I do remember thinking at the time of the fight was that Tyson was lucky that wasn't a peak George Foreman landing that punch in the 1st round that shook him up. Bruno didn't have that 'killer instinct'. But the young Foreman would have smelt blood, which always spelt danger and pain for his unfortunate opponent.

Yes, Liston was a very dirty fighter. Watch the Eddie Machen fight, in which Liston had multiple points deducted from his score. Those were some horrific low blows. I applaud Machen for continuing after that.

Have you got the complete fight? I only got a 10 minutes H/L version, but I would like to se the full fight.

Søren

Marciano Frazier wrote:Yes, Liston was a very dirty fighter. Watch the Eddie Machen fight, in which Liston had multiple points deducted from his score. Those were some horrific low blows. I applaud Machen for continuing after that.

I've seen that fight many times...I think it shows Liston having some 'Tyson like' rage...he couldn't get his way with slick Eddie...couldn't land the big punch and was getting frustrated...he still outboxed Machen, won on points by a wide margin, even with the deducted points...and I personally don't think it was a normal Liston fight...I don't view Liston as a dirty fighter...although he showed an uglier side in the Machen fight...atleast he didn't bite Eddie's ear...

Marciano Frazier wrote:Yes, Liston was a very dirty fighter. Watch the Eddie Machen fight, in which Liston had multiple points deducted from his score. Those were some horrific low blows. I applaud Machen for continuing after that.

I understand that Eddie Machen got a lot of bad press for fighting 'too negative' against Liston, can anyone confirm this?