BoxRec

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 05:37**

Former champ Frazier's flying visit
RETURNING to Australia, where he recorded the last victory of his career 30 years ago, former world champion Joe Frazier reckons the current heavyweight boxing scene is crazy.

Now 61, `Smokin Joe' recorded his 32nd and final professional win in March 1975 at Melbourne's Junction Oval over compatriot Jimmy Ellis.

In his next bout seven months later, Frazier took part in the `Thrilla In Manilla' which completed his epic trilogy with Muhammad Ali, the fighter with whom he will always be inextricably linked.

Frazier gave his opinions about Ali, controversial former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson and the current state of boxing during a flying visit to Sydney, where he was a guest at last night's Sir Roden Cutler Medal dinner.

With the heavyweight title fractured into several different pieces with different belts worn by Vitali Klitschko, John Ruiz, Chris Byrd and Lamon Brewster, Frazier freely admits he doesn't know who the champion is since Lennox Lewis stepped down.

It is a far cry from 1970, when Frazier became undisputed champion by beating Ellis in their first fight.

"Today I don't know who the champion is they change so fast," Frazier said.

"When I was there, there was only one sanctioning (body) so that makes it a little greater than it is now we have two or three sanctions.

"We don't know who the champion is. I wouldn't know who is the champion after Lewis. It's crazy, it's running wild.

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"I fought for three or four million, these guys are doing 12 rounds, for 15 or 20 million dollars and they don't go one or two rounds. I'd like to see them fight more regular and get the job done."
Frazier's out of ring relationship with Ali always appeared fractious as they exchanged jibes.

However, Frazier was adamant there was no ongoing feud, though he still objected to Ali calling himself the greatest.

"I didn't have no patching up to do, it was mostly his word against everybody else's word, that he thought he was the greatest," Frazier said.

"No man on this earth could be the (greatest), there's only one lord is the (greatest). He (Ali) portrays himself to be the greatest, but we all like patched it up, put it together."

Ali won their last two bouts, but Frazier became the first professional to beat him when he earned a unanimous decision in New York in 1971.

"You remember that old bible battle with David and Goliath? I was David, I had a repeat slingshot and every time he tried to get out from me, I tried to load that slingshot up to take him out," Frazier said.

Frazier felt former champion Mike Tyson needed to learn more respect.

"The guy (Tyson) needs home training, the guy needs gym training, the guy needs to have respect training, in more ways than one. I think if he can go with these things, I think he'll be a good guy, he can get back to where he needs to be," Frazier said.

This Frazier is a jealous fornicate!!

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 05:52**

Not really what makes anyone the greatest?

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 06:16**

BLAH!BLAH!BLAH! SMOKING JOE JUST CAN'T GET OVER THE FACT THAT ALI WON 2 OF 3. OR MAYBE HE'S MAD THAT LAILA BEAT HIS DAUGHTER.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 06:52**

Whether or not Muhammad Ali is "the greatest" is one's opinion. There's no actual way to prove whether or not he is the greatest, just people that will say whether or not he is the greatest and give their own reasons for proof. There will be people that think Ali is the greatest, just like there will be people that think Louis, Marciano, and even Tyson are the greatest. What it comes down to is that all of these fighters are "great," but none of the can really be truthfully considered "the greatest," because there is no true way to prove it one way or another.

Personally, I feel that Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight, but of course, there are many people that would disagree with that, and there is no way for me to prove to them that Louis is better than whoever they feel is the greatest heavyweight.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 07:28**

Is an avid boxing fan, I appreciate Frazier for his ring achievements, but I see how people would feel he was the jealous-type when he talks about Tyson etc.

Frazier was a tremendous fighter, great heart, stamina and determination. However, Tyson would have beaten him, and it boils down to this: Frazier was notoriously slow starter, Tyson was exactly the opposite.

This, along with other aspects i.e. Tyson was stronger, faster, had a better defence etc, would have stropped Frazier in round 1.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 08:29**

Ali was good and I think he was one of the best. He is in my prime top 5.

1. Larry Holmes

2. Sugar Ray Leonard

3. Ali

4. Thomas Hearns

5. Lennox Lewis

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 10:51**

This just in from God Almighty:

I want to settle this now and for all time and I'll do it by way of my dear friend, Boxbuzz posting to BoxRec on this the 9th day of July in the year of 2005. I was unsettled to see the title of this post and the enclosed list and thought it time to settle this for all time.

Ali was indeed the greatest. but only of heavyweight boxers.

Now don't shoot me or post a lot of arguments, I'm just the messenger in this case. This is not my claim I'm just a delivery boy. But as I look at it in stark amazement I suppose it settles the question forever and we can all go about our lives wondering about other matters.

Funny how you can just be going about the Normal things in your life and you can be called into a higher calling just like that! So for everyone who thought it was Rocky M, or Joe L, or Jack J or Larry H, or in my case I had sneakin suspicion Primo Carnera was taking a dive for lesser fighters we can quit wonderin, It seems clearly the puzzle is finally solved.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 10:54**

"Today I don't know who the champion is they change so fast," Frazier said.

yes joe, some champs do not hold onto their titles for a long time, and often fight stiffs until they step-up and are destroyed by a legit contender.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 12:30**

how could u call frazier jealous cause he lost two out of 3 to ali. FRAZIER IS JEALOUS CAUSE HE WON THE ONLY REAAALL MATCH BETWEEN THE TWO WHERE BOTH WERE STILL IN THEIR PRIMES. THAT MAKES FRAZIER WIN THE SERIES 1-0. I GIVE ALI LOTS OF CREDIT FOR THOSE WINS, BUT THE ONE THAT COUNTED THE MOST WAS WHEN THEY WERE BOTH STILL GREAT AND THAT WAS IN THE "FIGHT OF THE CENTURY" WON BY FRAZIER. FRAZIER DESERVES A LOT MORE RESPECT AND RECOGNITION FOR THAT WIN OVER THE GREATEST.

I RATE ALI # 2 ALL TIME AND FRAZIER # 6.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 13:59**

try sticking with reality. ali won the series 2-1.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 14:18**

BoxBuzz wrote:This just in from God Almighty:

I want to settle this now and for all time and I'll do it by way of my dear friend, Boxbuzz posting to BoxRec on this the 9th day of July in the year of 2005. I was unsettled to see the title of this post and the enclosed list and thought it time to settle this for all time.

Ali was indeed the greatest. but only of heavyweight boxers.

That's funny...God told me a couple years ago that Joe Louis was the greatest...and that Ali & Jack Johnson were in a vitual tie for second...the Ali thing he told you...well, He can be a bit of a joker sometimes...I think He was serious when He told me Louis, though...judging by those exploding pine trees.....

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 14:36**

How could anyone rate Larry Holmes as the best boxer ever? Who did he defeat? Great champions are defined by the level of opposition they succeeded in beating. Holmes came along too late and suffered from a lack of true comp. By the end he had been coaxing too long and lost to that mighty warrior Michael Spinks???

1. Ali
2. Jack Johnson
3. Joe Louis

You can split hairs over the rest (Marciano, LL, Tyson, Holyfield, & Holmes)... but those three are rock solid.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 14:42**

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: WHERE BOTH WERE STILL IN THEIR PRIMES.

I never saw a prime Ali fight Frazier, and I saw all 3 fights...no foot movement, laying on the ropes, holding behind the head, getting hit every round, getting staggered, knocked down...that wasn't a 'prime' Ali...4 years earlier Ali wouldn't have taken 1/2 the punishment from Frazier, and easily would have won 3-5 more rounds...Arthur Mercante (who scored 8-6-1) always said Ali gave 3 rounds away laying on the ropes playing that pitter-patter game...a 'prime' Ali never did shit like that...Frazier had the perfect style for a flat footed Ali...an Ali who moves on his feet creates a whole new set of problems for Frazier...

Let me put forth this question:

If you are the manager of any great heavyweight...and you have the chance to fight Ali...do you want to face the Ali before the layoff...or the Ali after the layoff...your best chance to win is to fight Ali after the layoff...it's a no brainer...you'd want him to stand in front of you, not move around making it twice as difficult to hit him...

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 18:30**

If crazy Ali wouldn't have won that crazy fight against crazy george foreman, this whole crazy thread and all others reffering to boxings holy heavyweights would be significantly different.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 18:33**

felly smarts wrote:5. Lennox Lewis

The fact that Lennox Lewis appears on that list is really amusing to me???

You're not British are you?

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 18:39**

I find it hard to rate Ali in the top 3.

Most over rated fighter of all time, along with Tyson.

It seems any fighter who attracts major media attention suddenly becomes something he's not.

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 20:09**

Tantum wrote:I find it hard to rate Ali in the top 3.

Most over rated fighter of all time, along with Tyson.

It seems any fighter who attracts major media attention suddenly becomes something he's not.

What heavyweight champion didn't attract 'major media attention'?...

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 20:12**

Please be serious.........

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 20:36**

LOL I RATE MUHUMUD ALI THE GREATEST CUZ HE KTFO SONNY LISTON HE HE HE

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 22:50**

bretpainter wrote:If crazy Ali wouldn't have won that crazy fight against crazy george foreman, this whole crazy thread and all others reffering to boxings holy heavyweights would be significantly different.

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle...

Posted: **09 Jul 2005, 23:47**

lakota nation wrote

1. Ali
2. Jack Johnson
3. Joe Louis

You can split hairs over the rest (Marciano, LL, Tyson, Holyfield, & Holmes)... but those three are rock solid.

well id say ali and louis are a sure lock. but johnson is not a sure lock in top 3. most people rate him anywhere from 5-10. in my opinion. at least thats where i rate him.

How could anyone rate Larry Holmes as the best boxer ever? Who did he defeat? Great champions are defined by the level of opposition they succeeded in beating.

IF u think competetion is such a big deal, then why do u rate jack johnson so high??? who did jack johnson ever beat???? explain to me how his competition is better than holmes????

sry to veer off topic but just wanted to defend holmes a little .

Posted: **10 Jul 2005, 01:18**

I don't think we'll ever know who the greatest is. Marciano finished with a perfect record and was never really contested. But his opposition was not as great as the others who are on the list. Who knows it might even be the same for joe louis since they were from so long ago. I honestly don't think their is a greatest fighter. I think there are greater fighters than some but not one who could take anyone from anytime and anywhere. There will always be arguments on this if we look at it any other way.

Posted: **10 Jul 2005, 01:36**

maybe in about 10 or twenty years, some 6'6 240 pound jacked muscular bound heavyweight will come along with the power of joe louis, the jab of larry holmes, the left hook of frazier, the right hand of earnie shavers, the heart of holyfield, the jaw of george chuvalo, the foot speed of ali, the hand speed of miek tyson, a 90 inch reach, the toughness of marciano, a killer instinct like jack dempsey, the intimidating look like sonny liston, the strength of george foreman, the stamina of john L sullivan.

NOW THAT WOULD BE THE GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL TIME. we can only wait for that man to come along.

well most likely continue to get 6'2 250 lb fat, slow, out of shape, un coordinated slobs.

Posted: **10 Jul 2005, 02:03**

The stamina of John L Sullivan???

Who are you kidding!

John L Sullivan would'nt last one round with the greats of the last 50 years! He usto drink whiskey as part of his training.

cheers M.O.

Posted: **10 Jul 2005, 02:32**

The people who think that the old timers had some pseudo-godly stamina obviously fail to realize most of these guys were throwing around 10-25 punches per round.

BoxRec

Why Muhammad Ali was not the greatest

Why Muhammad Ali was not the greatest