BoxRec

what do you thnik would happen in this bout???

louis easy...foreman comes out punching hard but the skilled louis isnt damaged and take foreman out somewhere around the 8th round

louis would out box george "if" he didn't get drawn into a slugging contest which he was prone to do. if he tried to slug with george given the big weight difference, george would knock him out. if he boxes him and moves, he knocks george out.

i think joe louis could knock him out in a slug fest. remember joe louis right hand punch was a short crisp punch that didnt travel very far because it was so short quick and powerful. foreman on the other hand threw wide punches and i think louis fast inside short punches could get inside foremans long loop punches and knock out foreman. louis will also land his jab hard on foreman to set up a power punch.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i think joe louis could knock him out in a slug fest. remember joe louis right hand punch was a short crisp punch that didnt travel very far because it was so short quick and powerful. foreman on the other hand threw wide punches and i think louis fast inside short punches could get inside foremans long loop punches and knock out foreman. louis will also land his jab hard on foreman to set up a power punch.

I agree. Joe was a more accurate puncher, and made his punches count. WHile Foreman could get wild in their at times.

Most guys who tried to bang with a prime Foreman would get KOed. But Louis is one fighter that would put George in is place. Joe hit VERY hard. I have not seen such a hitter since him. Joe was a machine. Foreman had chinks in his armour (though Joe never had to face Ali) and Joe beat every one in his prime he fought (He got Max good in the rematch).

Joe Louis also has fast hands, something people forget...they just tend to think of the power...either guy has a puncher's chance, but the smart money would be on Louis...the jab, the fast hands and combinations, the footwork in his prime, the over all skill level, better stamina...If Foreman doesn't catch him early, he's in trouble...with each passing round Louis' chances go up...after the half way point, Louis would start to look unbeatable...

Throw of a dice really. Remember that George had a very good chin and a very huge punch. Joe's chin I'd say was more suspect. I'd pick Foreman by early KO, providing he takes Louis's shots...

if big goerge caught louis it would be all over, and probaly vice versa as well, hard to say really...

joe louis would win

walshb did george really have a good chin?????

he was knocked out by a past his prime ali with one punch though i will admit foreman could have got up he was just beaten mentally and was so tried.

then foreman was tested against a big puncher and lyle put hon the canvas twice and nearly KO'd him. louis hits harder than lyle.

and how bout jimmy young knocking down foreman?????


if louis hits foreman, foreman is gone.

The points regarding Foreman being knocked down are correct but it seems bizarre that young Foreman would have a worse chin than Foreman in his 40s. One wonders why the old Foreman never knocked down while young Foreman was decked four times?

Does anyone think that the Foreman of the 90s had a better chin than the 70s version?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:walshb did george really have a good chin?????

he was knocked out by a past his prime ali with one punch though i will admit foreman could have got up he was just beaten mentally and was so tried.

then foreman was tested against a big puncher and lyle put hon the canvas twice and nearly KO'd him. louis hits harder than lyle.

and how bout jimmy young knocking down foreman?????


if louis hits foreman, foreman is gone.

Brockton ... I'm not disputing your points per se, but Ali really didn't knock Foreman out as much as Foreman just totally spent himself. Not sure that's a chin issue. I'm sure you've probably seen that fight dozens of times (ESPN Classics replays it practically every week). Watch George just walking back to his corner at the end of those last couple rounds. Dude's about ready to fall down from exhaustion.

As for Louis hitting harder than Lyle, I won't say that's an untrue statement but it's a debatable one. As you're from Brockton, MA, I'm from the greater Detroit area, so I can understand your reverence for Marciano in all these debates. Louis is king where I come from. But having been a great champion doesn't necessarily mean some of the better challengers of any era couldn't have (or didn't) hit just as hard. The difference between the great champions and some noted punchers over the years who never won titles was often more a matter of overall boxing skill, or the luck of the draw, or any number of other little nuances that worked in favor of the guys who now occupy all the all-time lists.

Cojimar 1945 wrote:The points regarding Foreman being knocked down are correct but it seems bizarre that young Foreman would have a worse chin than Foreman in his 40s. One wonders why the old Foreman never knocked down while young Foreman was decked four times?

Does anyone think that the Foreman of the 90s had a better chin than the 70s version?

Good point... I find the whole Foreman issue very tricky. He was obviously a more danegrous figther in his physical prime but he was a much better technician when he was older. He had a much better handle on his own emotions and could control a fight. So what is his prime? George's 40 year old mind in his 1970's body would have been a formidable opponent for anyone. I think by slowing his style George paced himself better and became a much more dangerous fighter. For em George's best is a mix of the old and the young.

The difference between '70s Foreman and '90s Foreman is just maturity. Old George had finally become acquainted with himself by the time he came back to fight again. He was efficient. He made sure the toolbox had all his tools in it, and then he thought his way through the job.

Young George just went after people. Not much thought and no plan B when plan A was failing.

With other fighters I certainly don't get the sense that they were more efficient in their 40s than in their twenties or that their chin was better.

Foreman certainly had considerable experience by the mid to late 70s since he had been boxing for so long.

Foreman had a very strong chin. Lyle was a dynamite puncher who could put anyman down with a big shot and the fact George survived and won the fight speaks volumes.

That being said, Louis would win b/c he was the much more efficient, crisper puncher and a much better overall boxer.

Look guys, trying to dispute Foreman's Iron chin is silly. The guy had a great chin and proved it many times. Forget the Ali fight, he was hit with good punches but Ali rope a doped him to total exhaustion. A peak Foreman was pretty close to unbeatable, it took the ring savvy and skill of an Ali to beat him. What other fighter could have done that to George. I know Louis couldn't have done it, because it wasn't Joe's style to fight like that. George would not have to look for Louis and vice versa. It's a matter of who has the best chin and who can hit the other more effectively. I'm convinced George can take Joe's best shots and it's pretty obvious that he is going to tag Joe, as Louis wasn't the most difficult to hit....Joe's chin was wobbled many times before by guys who hit nowhere near as hard as Foreman....Foreman by KO

I assume we are referring to the 70s version of Foreman? That fight would not last long- a couple rounds max. Louis had a tendency to get rid of big punchers pretty quickly and his straighter faster and harder punches would do Foreman in. There is always a chance George would get that one shot in... but not likely when Louis switched to"DESTROYER"

first off, KINGPAWN i am not from brockton, ma . i am from needham, ma which is about 20 minutes away from brockton. im close, but do not live in brockton.



wlashb wrote

I'm convinced George can take Joe's best shots and it's pretty obvious that he is going to tag Joe, as Louis wasn't the most difficult to hit.

george can take joe louis's best shots???? have u seen joe louis's fights???
NO ONE can take joe louis best shots. george foreman could not take lyles best shots and joe louis hit harder than lyyle. joe louis was the hardest puncher who ever lived. louis will land inside foeremans looping bombs and beat foreman to the punch. he could also outbox george ith his jab and wait for the right time to explode a punch of foremans jaw.

the prime foreman didnt have the best chin. even jimmy younng floored him. the older foreman had a better chin than young george.


u underestimate how hard joe louis hit.

BB, I agree with your pick but you're simply wrong when you say the older Foreman had a better chin then a younger one. Chins don't get better with age. In fact, from a physical standpoint their punch resistance would decrease as a person ages.
Have you seen the Jimmy Young fight? George was knocked off balance by a pefectly timed shot while he was exhausted. He was not hurt and not close to being knocked out. Chin is not really the issue in this fight. Both had very good chins, although I would say Foreman had the stronger chin. If you're going to go by KDs, Louis's record has many holes. KDs by Pastor, Braddock . . these guys were not devastating punchers. But Louis was not hurt and these were flash KDs. It's false thinking to look at the number of KDs and say Louis had a weak chin, just as it is to look at the Ali KO and the Lyle KDs to say that Foreman had a weak chin . .

Tommy Farr took all of Louis's best shots, so somebody definitely could take Louis's punches.

And when you say Jimmy Young floored Foreman, that's not the whole story. Foreman was floored in the 12th round when he was gassed, not early in the fight. It was similar to the Ali fight where Foreman lost his energy. Only Lyle legitimitely dropped Foreman. Foreman had a great chin.

dempseyfire, I had a similar point but you said it much better. I agree 100% with your post.

One thing I have always wondered about is the natural progression of the science of training and if that would always favor the boxer from the more recent era.

Would the old guard have answers for the new routines? Nutrition has improved, excercise routines have improved, even scheduling.

I know Rocky IV tried to make a case that old ways vs new ways may be equal or even devolving but I'm not so certain that's the case.

Exercise and training has improved?

How?

That's a myth. Across all weight classes boxers 30 years ago could fight 15 hard rounds at a fast pace . . .today's fighters have trouble going 12.
They were showing Griffith-Paret and Chuvalo-Patterson last night on ESPN. You have to go down to 135 and below to see that kind of action and work-rate now.

Look at how the 'next big' middleweight Taylor and Tarver tired in their latest championship bouts. Compared to past champions those performances were pathetic, to be frank . . .

dempseyfire wrote:BB, I agree with your pick but you're simply wrong when you say the older Foreman had a better chin then a younger one. Chins don't get better with age. In fact, from a physical standpoint their punch resistance would decrease as a person ages.
Have you seen the Jimmy Young fight? George was knocked off balance by a pefectly timed shot while he was exhausted. He was not hurt and not close to being knocked out. Chin is not really the issue in this fight. Both had very good chins, although I would say Foreman had the stronger chin. If you're going to go by KDs, Louis's record has many holes. KDs by Pastor, Braddock . . these guys were not devastating punchers. But Louis was not hurt and these were flash KDs. It's false thinking to look at the number of KDs and say Louis had a weak chin, just as it is to look at the Ali KO and the Lyle KDs to say that Foreman had a weak chin . .

I agree and disagree.

I do think that Foreman has since been able to pace himself better than he did in the 70's, and that while not suffering from fatigue he could take shots a lot better.

But I also think the fact that he got so much bigger and stronger also helps. It is common knowledge that a light heavyweight can take a better punch than a lightweight.

A bigger man can take a better punch. Foreman lifted alot of weights, and got a lot thicker. Never mind every one saying how fat he was. He was in great shape. When did he run out of gas in his comeback fights? He went the distance in competitive fights many times (against a prime Holyfield, KOed Moorer late).

But he was built like the strong men you see on TV pulling trucks and lifting boulders. In fact, in his training he did tow a truck (remember his training clip for the Savarese fight?).

His HUGE 250-260 lbs. frame could take it. His neck, chest, shoulders, back, and massive legs would not let him down. Like shock absorbers. Now not all big guys can take shots, we know that. But a heavyweight with a solid chin will take one better than a lightheavyweight with a solid chin, and it is that principal that I think works when comparing 70's Foreman with 90's Foreman.

Added to, like you said, he paced him self better and did not suffer from fatigue.

BTW It is true most guys took shots worst as they got older, but Foreman was not one of them. I think in his comeback he proved his aging affected him alot different than every one else.