BoxRec

Bloke shot dead on tube at stockwell by armed police.

Mosque in east london surrounded by armed police...

It would seem Amir's message hasn't quite got through.

I'm starting to wonder how bad this situation is going to get.

Anarchy is looming. And I'm not one for outlandish statements.

The one thing we could do without is creating maryters, one because I cant spell it and two because it just encourages more volunteers.

The mainstream Muslim church has to be key to this, they have to turn these people over.

I think British internal race relations have reached a pivot point.

And the media have a real duty not to go right-wing on this story and incite ill-advised misguided racial hatred.

Guys, I know nothing about British politics, so maybe you could answer me this, if you know U.S. politics, which with someone like Bush creating hate all through the world it's hard not for someone to not know about his kind of politics, but the question I have is this: Does Tony Blair have similar stances as Bush?

The problem is, as I understand it, is that Islam is a very broad church with lots of different interpretations of what the correct form of Islam is. It's not as simple as the Christian religion where there are only two major forms.

However, men who are prepared to strap bombs to themselves are obviously not rational people, I don't think it's religion makes them do it, they are being brainwashed by cynical murderers with their own agenda.

You don't see Osama Bin Laden trying to blow himself up do you?

This should not be turned into a religious issue entirely. After all, if a church of england bloke ran amok and killed loads of schoolchildren, it wouldn't be seen that way.

Thanks, Israel and Mr. Bush. Germany or France will be next. I expect something for the World Cup 2006.....

BubiScholz wrote:Thanks, Israel and Mr. Bush. Germany or France will be next. I expect something for the World Cup 2006.....

Chirac, even though he is a wanker, wisely chose not to go to Iraq... and the Oil war.....

The whole thing is terrible, you got a tiny proportion of the muslim population with extreme views causing carnage, then you get the thick white boys looking to have a go at anyone with a suntan.... innocent people getting killed on both sides.....

it seems there was a bomb scare at the East London mosque?? whats that about??

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The problem is, as I understand it, is that Islam is a very broad church with lots of different interpretations of what the correct form of Islam is. It's not as simple as the Christian religion where there are only two major forms.

However, men who are prepared to strap bombs to themselves are obviously not rational people, I don't think it's religion makes them do it, they are being brainwashed by cynical murderers with their own agenda.

You don't see Osama Bin Laden trying to blow himself up do you?

This should not be turned into a religious issue entirely. After all, if a church of england bloke ran amok and killed loads of schoolchildren, it wouldn't be seen that way.

But these people make is a religious point when they claim divine reasoning for their actions.

knockout wrote:

BubiScholz wrote:Thanks, Israel and Mr. Bush. Germany or France will be next. I expect something for the World Cup 2006.....

Chirac, even though he is a wanker, wisely chose not to go to Iraq... and the Oil war.....

The whole thing is terrible, you got a tiny proportion of the muslim population with extreme views causing carnage, then you get the thick white boys looking to have a go at anyone with a suntan.... innocent people getting killed on both sides.....

it seems there was a bomb scare at the East London mosque?? whats that about??

i agree mate, its very sad for all involved, im not gonna post too much here for fear of certian wind up merchants taking advantage. but needless to say i hope that suffering can be kept to a minimum for both sides of the fence.

DavidPayne wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The problem is, as I understand it, is that Islam is a very broad church with lots of different interpretations of what the correct form of Islam is. It's not as simple as the Christian religion where there are only two major forms.

However, men who are prepared to strap bombs to themselves are obviously not rational people, I don't think it's religion makes them do it, they are being brainwashed by cynical murderers with their own agenda.

You don't see Osama Bin Laden trying to blow himself up do you?

This should not be turned into a religious issue entirely. After all, if a church of england bloke ran amok and killed loads of schoolchildren, it wouldn't be seen that way.

But these people make is a religious point when they claim divine reasoning for their actions.

according to the group claiming responsibilty it is all about the troops in Iraq.... so not religion based.

from thisislondon.com

The group, Abu Hafs al Masri Brigade, also claimed responsibility for the July 7 bombings which killed 52 people and four suicide bombers.

The statement's authenticity could not be immediately verified.

"Our strikes in the depths of the capital of the British infidels our only a message to other European governments that we will not relent and sit idle before the infidel soldiers will leave the land of the two rivers," said the statement.

The "two rivers" in the statement refer to Iraq's Euphrates and Tigris rivers.

barry wrote:Does Tony Blair have similar stances as Bush?

Firstly I'll refrain from crude jokes with this one.

At the time of the Iraq war, Blair was certainly perceived by a lot of British as basically being Bush's lap dog. Whilst I personally think war in Iraq shouldn't have happened in the way it did, I probably reckon Blair thought he was doing the right thing, as opposed to Bush, who perhaps got cought up in oil/power/elections/getting revenge for Daddy.

As for the scheme of things now, I'd probably echo James' title, and perhaps add in an adjective.

These people are pricks. Nothing to do with Islam I reckon, just using it as an excuse to start a big fornicate-off war.

I really want to know as well more behind the history of Islam and Christianity. As in x hundred years of persecution - did it happen, why, who to blame etc.

BubiScholz wrote:Thanks, Israel and Mr. Bush. Germany or France will be next. I expect something for the World Cup 2006.....

This is a little simplistic, the aggressive muslim regimes and groups have more than played their part

Not sure whats going on with the East London mosque I was under the impression they thought one of the terrorists was holed up in there - might not be the case.

The guy at Stockwell would appear to be a terrorist, they chased him in there off the street apparently. Would make sense as the guy escaped yesterday from Oval just one stop away.

Police press conference in about 10 minutes so get the TV on!

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bloke shot dead on tube at stockwell by armed police.

Mosque in east london surrounded by armed police...

Mosque was apparantley a bomb hoax or suspect package.

Dead bloke was on the run and suspected of carrying explosives so I suppose the police could not take any chances, maybe it was one of the pricks from yesterday, it was in the same area (Stockwell).

DavidPayne wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The problem is, as I understand it, is that Islam is a very broad church with lots of different interpretations of what the correct form of Islam is. It's not as simple as the Christian religion where there are only two major forms.

However, men who are prepared to strap bombs to themselves are obviously not rational people, I don't think it's religion makes them do it, they are being brainwashed by cynical murderers with their own agenda.

You don't see Osama Bin Laden trying to blow himself up do you?

This should not be turned into a religious issue entirely. After all, if a church of england bloke ran amok and killed loads of schoolchildren, it wouldn't be seen that way.

But these people make is a religious point when they claim divine reasoning for their actions.

Yes, but they are obviously not that religious, or they wouldn't be murdering people. Murder is not condoned my the vast majority of the islamic world.

I can claim I'm the son of god, doesn't make me jesus..

E wrote:

BubiScholz wrote:Thanks, Israel and Mr. Bush. Germany or France will be next. I expect something for the World Cup 2006.....

This is a little simplistic, the aggressive muslim regimes and groups have more than played their part

You cannot recruit happy, content and stable people to blow themselves up. It's the discontented and disenfranchised who are the ones who are easy to indoctrinate and brainwash to turn themselves into killing machines by the cynical bastards behind this.

The western world sadly has created the perfect conditions to foster this, by exploiting the Arab world. After all, why does America support Saudi Arabia, surely they should be going there to 'democratise' the feudal system?

I don't think that these problems will go away until we get out of the Middle East.

We shouldn't bow to terrorist demands but considering the amount of opposition to us being there, is it really worth all of this?

Ding_Ding wrote:I don't think that these problems will go away until we get out of the Middle East.

We shouldn't bow to terrorist demands but considering the amount of opposition to us being there, is it really worth all of this?

It's too late now. If US and British troops pulled out of Iraq as it is it would get even worse

jomothepure wrote:

Ding_Ding wrote:I don't think that these problems will go away until we get out of the Middle East.

We shouldn't bow to terrorist demands but considering the amount of opposition to us being there, is it really worth all of this?

It's too late now. If US and British troops pulled out of Iraq as it is it would get even worse

Maybe so, but it's been f*cked up for years anyway and I seriously doubt that anything that GB or the US does will improve the situation, it's a losing battle. The sooner the Iraqi forces are ready to go alone the better.

We've seen it all before.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

E wrote:

BubiScholz wrote:Thanks, Israel and Mr. Bush. Germany or France will be next. I expect something for the World Cup 2006.....

This is a little simplistic, the aggressive muslim regimes and groups have more than played their part

You cannot recruit happy, content and stable people to blow themselves up. It's the discontented and disenfranchised who are the ones who are easy to indoctrinate and brainwash to turn themselves into killing machines by the cynical bastards behind this.

The western world sadly has created the perfect conditions to foster this, by exploiting the Arab world. After all, why does America support Saudi Arabia, surely they should be going there to 'democratise' the feudal system?

do come on the expoitation of saudi is a two way thing.

Look at how they are holding the world to ransom with oil prices and controlling supply to keep the price high.

its a two way street mate.

p.s do bear in mind i co-ordinate saudi offtake for a well known oil co, so know exactly what happens. they could up production 3 fold but choose not to. they have the oil and the capacity to do so.

I'm sure if any conservatives read this it will certainly upset them, so if you are and you like George W. Bush, it would be better to ignore my following rant, but do to the fact that I am American and due to the fact that I vote I have the right to talk shit about the joke that is called U.S. President George W. Bush. Of course all blame cannot be levee'd down on him, but there is a big percentage of the world's problems is a result of Bush and his bullshit war on Iraq. I believe as the fellow mentioned about my question that Tony Blair jumped on board to do the right thing and after on board there was nothing that he could do but ride out the horro that has been created due in large part to George Bush, but like I said, I don't know British politics, so I may be completely wrong.

Everyone here in the U.S. was all for Afganastain, but everything shifted completely from what we should have been doing in ridding and putting a big hurt to the actual terrorist cells, but it was Bush's opportunity to go gung-ho into Iraq, primary reason so that he and all of his very, very rich oil buddies would not have to worry about their money in oil and now the world in general is a lot more dangerous place than it was six, seven years ago.

I really feel for the families that have lost loved one as a result of everything linked to the U.S. going into Iraq and I find it difficult that politicians do not go after Bush with a vengeance to get his ass out of office...he has quickly turned into the worst president in the history of the United States...I'm proud to be an American, but I am very ashamed of our country for putting such a crooked low-life back into office, but then again...after all the votes were tabulated, Bush should never have been in office to begin with...he is the most dangerous man in the world!

J, I'm not sticking up for the Saudi's they are bunch of corrupt fuckers, or rather the Saudi royal family are. They are America's big buddies in the region.

No different to DeBeers controlling the supply of diamonds mate. Simple business model, limit supply to keep prices at a level which suits, anyone in business with any product they have a monopoly over. Why do you think Levis control the pricing of their products so aggressively?

The Saudi regimie is corrupt, and is totally unfair to those who live their, all the best jobs go to members of the Saudi royal family and there is not even the pretence of democracy, one family rules the whole country and it's wealth....that's fair.

America props up their teetering regime because it suits them to do so, if the Saudi's didn't control a large proportion of oil, and sit at the head of OPEC, then I dare say the royal family would have gone a long time ago without American military aid.

Same reason why America rushed to Kuwait's aid.

These are complex issues, but the hypocrisy of Western nations is clear, it's do as we say, not as we do, one set of rules for us and our mates, and another for everyone else.

The people who are perpetuating these acts, are just pawns in a bigger game, they are young, impressionable and dissafected people who are being used as human bombs by people who want to change the status quo, and don't care how they go about it.

barry a very insightful and heartfelt post.


james spot on mate, that what i was alluding too, it suits the saudis as well.
cheers
j

barry wrote:I'm sure if any conservatives read this it will certainly upset them, so if you are and you like George W. Bush, it would be better to ignore my following rant, but do to the fact that I am American and due to the fact that I vote I have the right to talk shit about the joke that is called U.S. President George W. Bush. Of course all blame cannot be levee'd down on him, but there is a big percentage of the world's problems is a result of Bush and his bullshit war on Iraq. I believe as the fellow mentioned about my question that Tony Blair jumped on board to do the right thing and after on board there was nothing that he could do but ride out the horro that has been created due in large part to George Bush, but like I said, I don't know British politics, so I may be completely wrong.

Everyone here in the U.S. was all for Afganastain, but everything shifted completely from what we should have been doing in ridding and putting a big hurt to the actual terrorist cells, but it was Bush's opportunity to go gung-ho into Iraq, primary reason so that he and all of his very, very rich oil buddies would not have to worry about their money in oil and now the world in general is a lot more dangerous place than it was six, seven years ago.

I really feel for the families that have lost loved one as a result of everything linked to the U.S. going into Iraq and I find it difficult that politicians do not go after Bush with a vengeance to get his ass out of office...he has quickly turned into the worst president in the history of the United States...I'm proud to be an American, but I am very ashamed of our country for putting such a crooked low-life back into office, but then again...after all the votes were tabulated, Bush should never have been in office to begin with...he is the most dangerous man in the world!

That's it.

Biggest mistake IMO was not inading Iraq. It was the way they did it, why and when. If Bush and Blair had said "right, we're going to remove Saddam from Iraq because he is xyz. He cannot go on the way he has." That's fine. get a UN mandate, remove Saddam, save the lives of thousands/millians of Iraqis. I would have supported that.

The mistake was to make up the shit about WMDs in Iraq, Play on and link it all to the 9/11/Afgan thing, treat the UN like some kind of kindergarten jedi council, and go into Iraq without thinking of the consequences

I don't know how most people feel here in the states, but if I were to travel anywhere out of the country I would not tell any of the natives that I was American, not because I'm ashamed, but honestly because I would be afraid and I'm someone that has never been scared of anything in this world, except spiders, but most of the world now has such a terrible view of the United States and the perception is that most Americans are the same and George W. has really fucked up our freedom and enjoyment to travel to other countries...the citizens themselves are suffering because of the fucked up idea's and actions of basically one lowly human being and when it comes to issues back at home...well George W. has been about as piss-poor as it gets, unless your someone that is rich. I honestly fear that things are just beginning to spin out of control and that we all really have some dark days ahead and fifty years from now the history books will talk about how bad George W. fucked up the United States as well as other parts of the world in the name of money and power and the first ten years of this century I'm afraid will eventually go down as ten of the worst years in history...I may be completely wrong, and I sure as hell hope that I am, but there has never been someone as dangerous as George W. Bush in the most powerful office in the world!