If Lewis/Tyson was in 1991...........
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 15:54
This would have been something.
BoxRec
If Lewis/Tyson was in 1991...........
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Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 15:59
91 doesnt matter in my opinion ....Lewis would of beat Tyson in any year t! Tyson had trouble with tall guys that had a decent jab and a little heart.
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 16:01
tyson after jail= brawler with no more boxing in him.... IMO....
the only tyson that was something was with cus, and shorty after cus... everything else is a shame...
the only tyson that was something was with cus, and shorty after cus... everything else is a shame...
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 16:02
I couldnt have said it better myself....ShoeShine wrote:91 doesnt matter in my opinion ....Lewis would of beat Tyson in any year t! Tyson had trouble with tall guys that had a decent jab and a little heart.
End of story....
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 16:55
IronJohn you always end the story just when I'm ready to contribute something worthwhile. Since this thread has now been closed by you I won't get my chance. I just got one word for you...... OTHERS!
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 17:01
It would have been the same fight.
IMO,
TBE
IMO,
TBE
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 17:03
So BE you think he simply would have been exposed earlier? You honestly think it would have been the same outcome?
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 17:33
If Tyson-Lewis was in 91'
If the fight was in 91' I dont know. If the fight was in 1988 things would have been allot different. Anyone who says otherwise has never seen Tyson's fights from the 80's verses his fights from the 90's and now. Tyson had allot more speed in the 80's and his agility/skill were much much more. It took Lennox 8 rounds to stop Tyson when Tyson was fifteen years past prime. Lennox Lewis MIGHT have still beaten a young Mike Tyson, but one thing is certain, Mike WOULD DEFINATELY have been quicker than Lennox, and Mike definately would have landed some very clean direct head shots during the fight. Weather Lennox could have taken them is unknown, but my guess is no!
It's easy for young punks in their teens and mid 20's to talk garbage, because they never saw the real Tyson fight. The people that remember watching fights like Tyson vs McNeeley and Tyson vs Botha have never seen the real Tyson in action. That slow slugger version of Tyson that had his ass kicked by Lennox Lewis was only a shell of the skilled fighter that I watched in highschool knocking around guys all over the place in a very skillful and patient fashion. Tyson took on all comers in the 80's and I guarantee would have taken on and probubly defeated Lennox Lewis if Lennox been around to fight. This young crowd of commentators that talk garbage about Tyson ruining the sport with crime and dirty tactics, dont remember the Mike that went to schools and spoke against drugs and domestic violence back in the mid to late 80's. Those young fools are the same fools who saw Michael Jordan playing for the Washington Wizards a few years ago and said things like: "Jordan doesnt really look that good, Bryant and McGrady are way better than him." "Jordan is slow and not very agile, etc." I say To hell with them!
Mike Tyson became larger than life, and all his public notoriety and fame went to his head. He started to forget what brought him to the top, and started to think he was an unstoppable force. He fired his trainer for no reason, and basically started relying on instincts to get him through his fights, instead of hard work and focus. He could frequently be found kicking back in nightclubs and pounding down booz on the evening before a big fight. His big ego and lack of training eventually caught up with him and the rest we all know.....
Re: Hmmmmmmmmmm
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 18:10
well said... thats why he was avoiding lewis for so longironfistjohn wrote:I couldnt have said it better myself....ShoeShine wrote:91 doesnt matter in my opinion ....Lewis would of beat Tyson in any year t! Tyson had trouble with tall guys that had a decent jab and a little heart.
End of story....
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 21:45
;91 - Tyson batters Lewis to a Tko..
;92 - More interesting - Tyson slowing down a bit...more even fight.
Could go either way, because the judges are involved now.
Lewis of '92 was formidable - I saw him then.
Jaybee.
;92 - More interesting - Tyson slowing down a bit...more even fight.
Could go either way, because the judges are involved now.
Lewis of '92 was formidable - I saw him then.
Jaybee.
Posted: 12 Aug 2005, 22:06
There is absolutely no camparison from the 2002 fighter to that of 91!He was faster stronger and had better head movement and of course the killer instinct!I believe if McCall could hurt Lewis back in 97 I am positive Tyson would have been able to KO him easier.Tyson at that point in his career had faced a much better level of competition, guys like Burbick,Smith,Thomas,Tucker,Biggs,Holmes,Tubbs,Spinks,Bruno,Williams,Tillman and Ruddock.Tyson would beat Lewis by KO back in 91.
Posted: 13 Aug 2005, 00:03
Without a doubt in my mind Tyson KO's Lewis in 91 -
Tyson thrived off fighters that were stand up boxer types who would rather jab at him then fight (Lennox only became brave Vs the Old Tyson once he knew Tyson didn't have anything after the 3rd round)
Tyson KO's Lewis inside of 8 rounds - Without a doubt -
A prime Tyson would have intimidated Lewis....and Tyson's speed would have been too much -
Tyson thrived off fighters that were stand up boxer types who would rather jab at him then fight (Lennox only became brave Vs the Old Tyson once he knew Tyson didn't have anything after the 3rd round)
Tyson KO's Lewis inside of 8 rounds - Without a doubt -
A prime Tyson would have intimidated Lewis....and Tyson's speed would have been too much -
Posted: 13 Aug 2005, 06:32
The thing that is important to remember is that with the exception of the Duglas fight, Tyson didnt get hit by his opponents. His defense was nearly as overpowering as his offense. His head movement was fantastic for a heavyweight, and this led most of his opponents mearly grazing him. This led to devastating counter shots. I would say in 1988 Tyson wins by a KO in 3, in 1991, he wins by a KO in 5 or 6. After that he goes psycho, gains weight, and loses to people like Mcbride!
Posted: 13 Aug 2005, 12:55
Remember that Lewis sidestepped Tyson to fight Shannon Briggs back in 98, according to Eastsideboxing
Posted: 14 Aug 2005, 09:05
mr cool breeze wrote:If Tyson-Lewis was in 91'
If the fight was in 91' I dont know. If the fight was in 1988 things would have been allot different. Anyone who says otherwise has never seen Tyson's fights from the 80's verses his fights from the 90's and now. Tyson had allot more speed in the 80's and his agility/skill were much much more. It took Lennox 8 rounds to stop Tyson when Tyson was fifteen years past prime. Lennox Lewis MIGHT have still beaten a young Mike Tyson, but one thing is certain, Mike WOULD DEFINATELY have been quicker than Lennox, and Mike definately would have landed some very clean direct head shots during the fight. Weather Lennox could have taken them is unknown, but my guess is no!
It's easy for young punks in their teens and mid 20's to talk garbage, because they never saw the real Tyson fight. The people that remember watching fights like Tyson vs McNeeley and Tyson vs Botha have never seen the real Tyson in action. That slow slugger version of Tyson that had his ass kicked by Lennox Lewis was only a shell of the skilled fighter that I watched in highschool knocking around guys all over the place in a very skillful and patient fashion. Tyson took on all comers in the 80's and I guarantee would have taken on and probubly defeated Lennox Lewis if Lennox been around to fight. This young crowd of commentators that talk garbage about Tyson ruining the sport with crime and dirty tactics, dont remember the Mike that went to schools and spoke against drugs and domestic violence back in the mid to late 80's. Those young fools are the same fools who saw Michael Jordan playing for the Washington Wizards a few years ago and said things like: "Jordan doesnt really look that good, Bryant and McGrady are way better than him." "Jordan is slow and not very agile, etc." I say To hell with them!
Mike Tyson became larger than life, and all his public notoriety and fame went to his head. He started to forget what brought him to the top, and started to think he was an unstoppable force. He fired his trainer for no reason, and basically started relying on instincts to get him through his fights, instead of hard work and focus. He could frequently be found kicking back in nightclubs and pounding down booz on the evening before a big fight. His big ego and lack of training eventually caught up with him and the rest we all know.....
Good post.
Lennox Lewis in amateurs
Posted: 14 Aug 2005, 17:43
Lennox Lewis was not even fighting professionally when Tyson was at his peak. How could anybody claim he was ducking Lennox Lewis at his best when Lewis had never even fought as a professional?
Tyson avoided Lewis in the 1990s but in my opinion Tyson was already past his best by this point.
Tyson avoided Lewis in the 1990s but in my opinion Tyson was already past his best by this point.
Posted: 15 Aug 2005, 12:10
I don't think Lewis would have exposed Tyson in '91. I think he just would have beaten him. It's no secret that Lewis used to bang Tyson up in the amatures and in sparring when they were teens and in thier early twenties, but that's not my point either.BoxBuzz wrote:So BE you think he simply would have been exposed earlier? You honestly think it would have been the same outcome?
Fact is, Tyson always had trouble with guys who were not afraid of him- and of guys who had a considerably height advantage and knew how to use it. Tall guys with good jabs consistantly gave Mike Trouble. I think Lewis has fit that bill since he was a kid, and that's why the fight was never pressed. Rooney, Cus, Atlas, whoever... They all knew Lewis was bad news for Tyson, and kept him safely at bay. Tyson never had the strategy to beat a guy like Lewis. Not even the young version of Lewis with incomplete skills. Tyson would not have been exposed, because in 1991, he was an awesome fighter and his strategy was 95% full proof. You can only expose a fraud. Back then, Tyson was far from being a fraud. It's just that Lewis fell into that 5% throughout Tyson's entire career.
IMO,
TBE
lewis/tyson 91
Posted: 16 Aug 2005, 19:43
Hey Mr. CoolBreeze, I heartily agree with you hear. I, too, watched Tyson fight since he was about 19. you should bop over to "Prime HolmesvsPrime Tyson" thread and see all the crap "sweet scientist" has to say.mr cool breeze wrote:If Tyson-Lewis was in 91'
If the fight was in 91' I dont know. If the fight was in 1988 things would have been allot different. Anyone who says otherwise has never seen Tyson's fights from the 80's verses his fights from the 90's and now. Tyson had allot more speed in the 80's and his agility/skill were much much more. It took Lennox 8 rounds to stop Tyson when Tyson was fifteen years past prime. Lennox Lewis MIGHT have still beaten a young Mike Tyson, but one thing is certain, Mike WOULD DEFINATELY have been quicker than Lennox, and Mike definately would have landed some very clean direct head shots during the fight. Weather Lennox could have taken them is unknown, but my guess is no!
Hey Mr. CoolBreeze, I heartily agree with you here. I, too, watched Tyson fight since he was about 19. you should bop over to "Prime HolmesvsPrime Tyson" thread and see all the crap "sweet scientist" has to say.
It's easy for young punks in their teens and mid 20's to talk garbage, because they never saw the real Tyson fight. The people that remember watching fights like Tyson vs McNeeley and Tyson vs Botha have never seen the real Tyson in action. That slow slugger version of Tyson that had his ass kicked by Lennox Lewis was only a shell of the skilled fighter that I watched in highschool knocking around guys all over the place in a very skillful and patient fashion. Tyson took on all comers in the 80's and I guarantee would have taken on and probubly defeated Lennox Lewis if Lennox been around to fight. This young crowd of commentators that talk garbage about Tyson ruining the sport with crime and dirty tactics, dont remember the Mike that went to schools and spoke against drugs and domestic violence back in the mid to late 80's. Those young fools are the same fools who saw Michael Jordan playing for the Washington Wizards a few years ago and said things like: "Jordan doesnt really look that good, Bryant and McGrady are way better than him." "Jordan is slow and not very agile, etc." I say To hell with them!
Mike Tyson became larger than life, and all his public notoriety and fame went to his head. He started to forget what brought him to the top, and started to think he was an unstoppable force. He fired his trainer for no reason, and basically started relying on instincts to get him through his fights, instead of hard work and focus. He could frequently be found kicking back in nightclubs and pounding down booz on the evening before a big fight. His big ego and lack of training eventually caught up with him and the rest we all know.....
Posted: 17 Aug 2005, 04:37
I think its a tough one to call because we've seen Lewis get KO'd twice and Tyson has that KO power. if he puts Lewis down then I can't see him getting back up.
Having said that Lewis is far superior to Smith and Tucker. I don't expect lewis to take his eye off the ball like he did against Rahman. he'd come in as an underdog but with lots of experience of fighting Tyson as an amateur. I don't think he'd be scared of him and I do think he has the style and build to frustrate Tyson.
I think Lewis has to survive the first 6 rounds because Tyson will be onto him immediately. If Tyson can hit him on the button and/or maintain a very fast pace then he can win becasue Lewis didn't like to fight up tempo.
On the other hand Lewis has the skills and punch to keep Tyson honest. I see the figth starting with Tyson in control but once we get to the middle rounds and Lewis starts to have some success it's difficult to see how Tyson could turn things back in his favour. He never managed to do this in his career so there is little, sorry, no, evidence to suggest that he would turn the fight back his way.
I think thhis is a closer fight than the Tyson-Holmes debate.
Having said that Lewis is far superior to Smith and Tucker. I don't expect lewis to take his eye off the ball like he did against Rahman. he'd come in as an underdog but with lots of experience of fighting Tyson as an amateur. I don't think he'd be scared of him and I do think he has the style and build to frustrate Tyson.
I think Lewis has to survive the first 6 rounds because Tyson will be onto him immediately. If Tyson can hit him on the button and/or maintain a very fast pace then he can win becasue Lewis didn't like to fight up tempo.
On the other hand Lewis has the skills and punch to keep Tyson honest. I see the figth starting with Tyson in control but once we get to the middle rounds and Lewis starts to have some success it's difficult to see how Tyson could turn things back in his favour. He never managed to do this in his career so there is little, sorry, no, evidence to suggest that he would turn the fight back his way.
I think thhis is a closer fight than the Tyson-Holmes debate.
lewis/tyson '91
Posted: 17 Aug 2005, 11:09
Excellent post, Ezzard. I hope other readers see this and learn from it. Ezzard makes a case-in-point for both fighters if each fights the way they should to win. I've been trying to get this type of discussion over at "Holmes/Tyson", but they're too immature to view that as objectively as Ezzard just did.
That being said, amateurs are one thing, facing an opponent in front of thousands is something else; ala Michael Grant.
And Ray Mercer, who is built like Tyson, gave Lewis a very tough fight. I've spoken to some who thought Mercer should have been awarded the win. I had it VERY close for Lewis.
Tyson would have to work hard to slip Lewis' jab and then cut off the ring to get to his body. In '91, I don't see Tyson doing this. Granted, Tyson got to Bruno with body work, but Bruno was going away from him. Lewis would have moved laterally.
If Tyson was dedicated to the "long-haul" win, then he would have worked Lewis' body over the course of the fight, wearing him down and then eventually KOing him. Lewis has the tendency to tire over the course of the fight. The big question here, IMO, would be: in '91, would Tyson have been committed enough to put in the hard work it would have taken to break Lewis down?
That being said, amateurs are one thing, facing an opponent in front of thousands is something else; ala Michael Grant.
And Ray Mercer, who is built like Tyson, gave Lewis a very tough fight. I've spoken to some who thought Mercer should have been awarded the win. I had it VERY close for Lewis.
Tyson would have to work hard to slip Lewis' jab and then cut off the ring to get to his body. In '91, I don't see Tyson doing this. Granted, Tyson got to Bruno with body work, but Bruno was going away from him. Lewis would have moved laterally.
If Tyson was dedicated to the "long-haul" win, then he would have worked Lewis' body over the course of the fight, wearing him down and then eventually KOing him. Lewis has the tendency to tire over the course of the fight. The big question here, IMO, would be: in '91, would Tyson have been committed enough to put in the hard work it would have taken to break Lewis down?