BoxRec

12 Rounds.
Who Takes It?

Hagler. Unanimously, unless we are referring to the Sugar Ray of 1951, then Robinson wins unanimously. The Robinson that fought Basilio and Fullmer could not beat Hagler and may even get Tko'd or ko'd.

Hagler wins everytime.

SRR is the greatest p4p & the greatest welterweight, but he was not invincible at middleweight.

I believe that Hagler & Monzon would have beaten him at middleweight, both on points in close fights.

Agreed, Ray was not the best middleweight that ever lived. Monzon and Hagler would both have gotten the better of him at that weight in my estimation.

I think Hagler-Robinson is a 50-50 fight.

Robinson's hand speed would have given Hagler problems and he had power behind his punches, even at middleweight and in his late-30s. Even earlier in his career, Duran gave Hagler problems by staying in close and pressing Hagler to lead which is not his strength. How would Hagler react with a taller fighter than can take tons of punishment, lead and get out of the pocket without getting hit by Hagler's best shots? The fighters that gave an older Robinson trouble did it by raining punches at him, and Hagler is a natural counterpuncher who would not do that (despite the Hearns fight). The thing that makes this a 50-50 fight is Robinson's age, a young Robinson pre-Maxim wins a clearcut decision against Hagler. I would lean to an older Robinson over Hagler as well, maybe 2 out of 3 times in a trilogy.

My Top 6 middleweights:
1 Monzon
2 Greb
3 Robinson
4 Hagler
5 Ketchel
6 Burley

Yes, pre-Maxim Sugar Ray outpoints Hagler because he still had legs. The later version became a much harder hitter because he couldn't move enough to keep these guys off of him. Basilio and Fullmer were very tough, on par with Hagler who was faster and a better puncher than either of them, plus he fought southpaw. His mobility would allow him to keep on top of SRR and he would outpoint him rather handily.

tiredoldngrey wrote

Yes, pre-Maxim Sugar Ray outpoints Hagler because he still had legs. The later version became a much harder hitter because he couldn't move enough to keep these guys off of him. Basilio and Fullmer were very tough, on par with Hagler who was faster and a better puncher than either of them, plus he fought southpaw. His mobility would allow him to keep on top of SRR and he would outpoint him rather handily.

i agree with this completely, and i say when he compare robinson at middleweight vs other middleweights, we compare robinson in the pre retirement days, the days hestopped jake la motta, knocked out randy turpin in the rematch and knocked out rocky graziano. he was only 30, 31 then and still in his best days. he was still almost at his best right befoire he retired when he fought maxim and was unlucky to lose to the heat after outboxing maxim easily for 13 rounds.

but i think when robinson first won the middleweight title he beats most of the middleweights of all time and i think he outpoints hagler. i think most people are making the mistake of rating robinson as a middleweight when he fought basillio, fullmer, and olsen but they forget that was after he retired for 3 years and was 35 by now.

my top 10 middleweights

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Sam Langford- its a disgrace he doesnt get to have his names in the record books as a champion.
4. Stanley Ketchell
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Carlos Monzon
7. Bob Fitzimmons- didnt stay long enough at middleweight. possibly the hardest punching middleweight ever.
8. Mickey Walker
9. Roy Jones- i rate him # 1 at super mdidle. even at middle, i dont see v many people beating him, but he didnt stay at middle long enough for us to know so im basing thaty soley on opinion.
10. Bernard Hopkins

HM: Burley, Lamotta, Fullmer

I believe at Middleweight, Hagler would be too strong for Robinson. Sugar Ray's slick boxing skills and ringmanship would keep it a close fight for maybe 10 rounds, but then Hagler's strength and relentless style of attack would take over and lead him to a clear cut unanimous decision, something like say 145-140. The consensus among most experts is that Robinson is the greatest fighter who ever lived, but in all honesty he never withstood the best shots of a Mugabi or a Hearns the way Marvelous Marvin did. I also couldn't imagine a Turpin or a Basilio going to war with Hagler in the trenches and getting the better of him. No disrespect intended to Sugar Ray Robinson, but I just believe that in the second half of a fight with Hagler he'd be coming off second best on nearly all the exchanges.

basillio by the way was one of the toughest and most fearless fighters ever, so by saying u cant see him fighting in the trenches is wrong. he defintely would lose that battle, but he would go to war with hagler. believe me basillio has been in just as many wars as hagler. at least from what i saw.

and robinson by the way took the best punches from jake la motta who i feel hits just as hard as john mugabi.

and unlike ray leonard, robinson had the power to hurt hagler and if u dont beleieve me ask granite chin gene fullmer who was kayoed by robinson from one punch.

but i think hagler will be dazzled by robinsons speed and skills and when he tries to attack robinson, robinsons power will hurt hagler enough to back him up and respect sugars power which will enable sugar to keep outboxing hagler. sugar will not get wron down by haglker, sugar was tough in the late rounds and had the stamina to keep at a great work rate through 15 rounds.

i just cant see marvin beat robinson unless he knocks out robinson late which in robinsons entire fight career, he was never knocked out or stopped on his feet.

Brockton Blockbuster

I really admire Carmen Basilio, especially for his bouts with Robinson. I just don't feel he's on par with Hagler, and therefore I used the example of his going toe to toe with Sugar Ray in two title fights and getting the better of him in several rounds.

As for Gene Fullmer, yes he had a very solid chin, but in all honesty he had been floored (though not stopped) a few times before the one punch knockout. So I can't accept the argument that that means Robinson could do likewise to Hagler. In fact I don't know what you'd base an argument for Sugar Ray's ability to hurt Hagler on ? Certainly nothing in Hagler's 67 fights.

Jake LaMotta punched at least as hard as Mugabi ? I think that'd be a pretty difficult argument to make. Off hand I'd say Turpin and Graziano were the hardest punchers the Sugar Man ever faced.

well obvisely graziano is, and it showed when he floored ray robinson in their bout and his classic battles with zale.

and im not sayiing robinsons gonna knock down hagler, or hurt him, but he is gonna back hagler up a lot more than leonard did and thats cause robinson has the better power. by showing hagler he can hit, it will make hagler less aggresive just cuase of the respect of sugars potential deadly power if hagler gets too cuatious.

im simply saying he will land enough shots to stop haglers aggresion.


and lamotta did have a lot of power in his left hook, and u saw that against laurenthille dauthille and many other fighters including ray robinson. lamotta was a harder hitter than turpin i think.

I believe that Hagler was too inconsistent to beat Ray. Depends which Marvin shows up. If Duran could make Hagler look average, what would the amazing Robinson do.

I think if Hagler stayed on the outside and boxed & used a lot of lateral movement, plus his smooth style of switching from lefty to righty & back again, he could score a close decision.
However, if Hagler elects to go to "war" with Robinson, Robinson's power would affect him, and the 1 & only "Sugar"Ray would win.

Hagler was great but Monzon and Robinson are rated higher in my book. I think Toney and RJJ would give Hagler all he could handle. Not sure he could step it up to Robinson at all.

I think Hagler would beat Robinson. As it's been stated, Robinson was a hell of a welterweight, but at middleweight, he was not the same near invincible fighter. I have Hagler above Robinson at middleweight. I'd say it's about 55% chance of Hagler winning. Very well matched fight, but I just can't help but feel Hagler would win this.

Look guys, if a blown up inactive Welter could coast against a 32 yr old Hagler and win, Ray Robinson would be too damn good for Hagler....Marvin was good, on certain days......Robinson had the complete package, Marvin didn't...UD for Robinson

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:tiredoldngrey wrote

Yes, pre-Maxim Sugar Ray outpoints Hagler because he still had legs. The later version became a much harder hitter because he couldn't move enough to keep these guys off of him. Basilio and Fullmer were very tough, on par with Hagler who was faster and a better puncher than either of them, plus he fought southpaw. His mobility would allow him to keep on top of SRR and he would outpoint him rather handily.

i agree with this completely, and i say when he compare robinson at middleweight vs other middleweights, we compare robinson in the pre retirement days, the days hestopped jake la motta, knocked out randy turpin in the rematch and knocked out rocky graziano. he was only 30, 31 then and still in his best days. he was still almost at his best right befoire he retired when he fought maxim and was unlucky to lose to the heat after outboxing maxim easily for 13 rounds.

but i think when robinson first won the middleweight title he beats most of the middleweights of all time and i think he outpoints hagler. i think most people are making the mistake of rating robinson as a middleweight when he fought basillio, fullmer, and olsen but they forget that was after he retired for 3 years and was 35 by now.

my top 10 middleweights

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Sam Langford- its a disgrace he doesnt get to have his names in the record books as a champion.
4. Stanley Ketchell
5. Marvin Hagler
6. Carlos Monzon
7. Bob Fitzimmons- didnt stay long enough at middleweight. possibly the hardest punching middleweight ever.
8. Mickey Walker
9. Roy Jones- i rate him # 1 at super mdidle. even at middle, i dont see v many people beating him, but he didnt stay at middle long enough for us to know so im basing thaty soley on opinion.
10. Bernard Hopkins

HM: Burley, Lamotta, Fullmer

it is a disgrace about langford,but he may well have not beaten ketchel anyway.though saying that after stanley died he'd have swamped the rest.what did sam weigh around this time?
i agree with everything written on this.overall hagler wins against the robinson who won and lost the championship on a regular basis.SRR on points if its the same that fought jake.