BoxRec

how do u rate him as a european heavyweight.

I follow a lot of the 50s heavies since marciano is my favorite fighter, but i always thought that the one fight he shouldnt have taken was don cockell which he took partly to test his nose and cause cockell was the british champ. i used to think cockell was kinda a bum, and the fact that he was knocked out by a former middleweight randy turpin, but i realized when the fight took place both were light-H and turpin was coming off his great preformances were over robinson. but then i realized he was a respectable contender, who though flabby (cause of his condition) beat some good fighters and he was a very very tough guy. he could take a punch, was very strong and tough, just lacked skill.
his best wins were over roland lastarza (who was never the same after the beating he took from marciano), kid mathews whom he beat 3 times, aging tommy farr, nick barone, loyyd marshall.

Hi Brockton,
I have more than a passing interest in Don Cockell to quote what was the general thought of 'his' time; "if Don Cockell could have STAYED at Light-Heavyweight, he could have been a World Champion!"

Cockell was a very good all-round boxer, now you know WHY he had to fight as a HW... so to rate him more "accurately" rate him as a light-heavyweight!

Yours, Jim.

When it comes to Cockell, Brockton, your favourite fighter was a dirty, cheating son of a gun! 8)

Jim is right about the light-heavyweight part...yet Don was good enough to reach number six when BritishBoxing.net did their top ten British post-war heavyweights a year ago. I did the bit on Don:

"6. Don Cockell, Battersea (1928-1983) 65(37)-14-1

Don Cockell was a blacksmith who was as hard as the anvil he used to whack. A natural light-heavyweight, Cockell won the British and European crowns in this division before losing the British belt to the great Randy Turpin. Weight making problems forced him to step up though unlike some fighters who move up because of indiscipline, Cockell had a medical problem which meant he unavoidably piled on the pounds. He beat an ageing Tommy Farr and outpointed Johnny Williams for the domestic crown before moving into world class with a defeat of American Roland LaStarza.

The fight for which he is remembered most came on 16th May 1955 when he travelled to San Francisco to take on Rocky Marciano for the world title. Cockell was dropped in the eighth and twice in the ninth (Marciano hitting Don whilst on the canvas) but rose from each knockdown. The referee stepped in to save Cockell from any more punishment. Marciano paid tribute to him afterwards, saying: "He's got a lot of guts. I don't think I ever hit anyone else any more often or harder."

Some indication of the regard in which he was held is that he was runner-up in the 1954 Sports Journalists Awards. It took a good man to beat him. It was the year Sir Roger Bannister broke the four-minute mile."

The previous posts say most of it, but I'll add my bit as I followed Cockell's fights when I was young and by coincidence years later his daughter Paula worked in my company.

Cockell was a far better fighter than given credit for, his problem being that because of a glandular problem he couldn't stay at his natural weight, which was probably a "heavy middle" or more practically a light-heavy.

The British public hadn't seen too much of Marciano before he fought Cockell, and what they saw in that fight didn't go down well....in my vierw, though, Cockell's worst defeat was actually against Turpin. He was badly hammered that night, though I suspect weight making may have hurt him badly.

A good, courageous fighter.

J

I've seen clips of that fight, and boy did Marciano hammer him with everything in his considerable arsenal of absolutely filthy tricks.

Butts, Elbows, kidney shots and low blows, everything bar biting him.

Cockell barely knew what time zone he was in let alone where his corner was by the end.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I've seen clips of that fight, and boy did Marciano hammer him with everything in his considerable arsenal of absolutely filthy tricks.

Butts, Elbows, kidney shots and low blows, everything bar biting him.

Cockell barely knew what time zone he was in let alone where his corner was by the end.

Indeed. And the man kept getting up. The Rock was sincerely amazed. Incredibly brave.

I don't like the thread title

Seriously though, Don is one of the most unsung British fighters of all time. One of the countries finest heavyweight. Beat Tommy Farr (albeit an aging one) but never gets the credit he deserves.

Would Marciano of got disqulified anywere else?

Fighters got away with a hell of a lot more naughties back then. I think Rocky would have been disqualified by all but the most Myopic of referee's in this era.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Fighters got away with a hell of a lot more naughties back then. I think Rocky would have been disqualified by all but the most Myopic of referee's in this era.

Makes me wonder if Marciano hadn't been allowed to get away with the elbows, head, etc etc (and not just against Cockell) would he have been as effective as a fighter.

Never one to pose a question without also offering the answer, I'd say that he would have been trained and coached to fight within the rules that are/were applicable at the time. That would have produced a fighter with heart, toughness, punch, and determination.... i.e. Rocky but without the rough house tactics....so I think he'd still have been a stand-out champion.

john2345 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Fighters got away with a hell of a lot more naughties back then. I think Rocky would have been disqualified by all but the most Myopic of referee's in this era.

Makes me wonder if Marciano hadn't been allowed to get away with the elbows, head, etc etc (and not just against Cockell) would he have been as effective as a fighter.

Never one to pose a question without also offering the answer, I'd say that he would have been trained and coached to fight within the rules that are/were applicable at the time. That would have produced a fighter with heart, toughness, punch, and determination.... i.e. Rocky but without the rough house tactics....so I think he'd still have been a stand-out champion.

Without the roughhouse tactics, I doubt he would have been champion, remember, he was getting slaughtered by Ezzard Charles and Joe Walcott, and I'm sure that without all the illegal blows he wouldn't have slowed them down enough to deliver the killing blows.

Charles lost a close one on points, without all those nasty little low blows, Rocky probably wouldn't have made the late running and closed out the show.

Not sure I can agree completely, James.... a lot of the time Marciano concentrated on punching the biceps of the opponent and that eventually had a slowing down effect. My point was meant to imply that if he had been coached to fight entirely within the rules he could have been almost as effective.....but I can see your point.

Mind you, on a slightly different tangent, as I recall the Ezzart Charles fight (second one) I think it would have been stopped by today's standards because of the damage to Rocky's nose.

J

john2345 wrote: think it would have been stopped by today's standards because of the damage to Rocky's nose.

J

Rocky's NOSES.. he had two at the end of the fight

john2345 wrote:Not sure I can agree completely, James.... a lot of the time Marciano concentrated on punching the biceps of the opponent and that eventually had a slowing down effect. My point was meant to imply that if he had been coached to fight entirely within the rules he could have been almost as effective.....but I can see your point.

Mind you, on a slightly different tangent, as I recall the Ezzart Charles fight (second one) I think it would have been stopped by today's standards because of the damage to Rocky's nose.

J

Yep, the nose was split right down to the cartalidge, no way that would have been allowed today. Rocky had an almost inhuman ability to absorb punishment.

Yes, I know he used to whack the arms, something which is virtually non-existent today, but he also used to punch fighters in the hips, elbow them and hit below the belt and in the Kidney's as much as possible.

He usually lost a lot of rounds before he caught up with people and began to get to them, in todays game, i doubt he would have had as much success.

john2345 wrote

Mind you, on a slightly different tangent, as I recall the Ezzart Charles fight (second one) I think it would have been stopped by today's standards because of the damage to Rocky's nose.

many people think this but their wrong, by todays standards rocky wins. it was an accidenteal elbow which is not a punch so since it happened after the 4th round, we got to scorecard.
judges scorecards read in rounds: 6-1 maricano 5-1-1 marciano and 6-1 R

fact is in that 2nd fight it wasnt a close fight. marciano beat charles up eveyr round and knocked him down in the 2nd round. the only reason peope think its close cause charles caught him with an elbow in the 7th and tore up his nose. but as usee, by todays standards its not a TKO win for charles, its a TECHNICAL DECIISON WIN FOR THE ROCK.


jamesmcdonell in todays game rockywould have a lot of sucess. rocky is a top 5 heavyweight of all time and evne though 187 lbs, he had the strentgh and KO power to deal to beat the big guys not to mention his toughness, underated defense and heart.

rocky was not a dirty fighter. he was a physical fighter. and he fought one of his worst fights against cockell because he didnt have a lot of fire training for that fight cause cockell was highly regarded. rocky even was decked by a sparring partner. but rocky was just a physical fighter. watch all his other fights, he did anything unintentional he was just too physical. he broke la starza's aarms by punching them till he could barely hold them up. he liked to punch in the arms body so he could wear his guy down. i doubt many heavyweights in history could take his punch either.

and walcott didnt dominate him, both fighters landed hard blows. walcott did outbox him slighty and by the 12 round he was ahead about 7 rounds to 5. but thats not domination. thats only 2 rounds apart. and rocky took most of the punishment in the 3 middle rounds which he was blinded by stuff in his eyes. and of course walcott is a great all time heavyweight.

and the charles I fight rocky clearly won. charles got himself into the best shape psossible that night and came to fight and during the first 6 rounds built a good lead but after that rocky started to wear him down and his non stop punching broke down charles. both fought at an incredible pace. charles was hit in the adams apple and couldnt talk after the fight(a legal punch) but rocky won the clear unanimous deciison in a gurelling fight. the ref didnt have to break them up once during the fight.

funny thing is cockell came in light at 205 against marciano. he was usually over 215 but seemed to trim down and get himself into the best shape possible.

and stujones, dont take it personally about the " what do u english guys".

i just said it in that format cuase cockell is an englishmen and this is the british forum. my last name is english and i have a lot of roots tracing back to england. i have a lot of respect for england and british fighters. their have been a lot of great ones, but british fighters are always tough.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:my last name is english

Blockbuster49 doesn't sound very English to me

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:and stujones, dont take it personally about the " what do u english guys".

i just said it in that format cuase cockell is an englishmen and this is the british forum. my last name is english and i have a lot of roots tracing back to england. i have a lot of respect for england and british fighters. their have been a lot of great ones, but british fighters are always tough.

I don't really mind, just winding. Try not to exclude us Celts though when asking the forum a question (Welsh, Scots and Irish).

Its been a good thread more of these we need in a dull time for the boxing currently.

If Marciano was disqualified as he should of then Cockell could of been champ.

rocky was not a dirty fighter. he was a physical fighter

Why do you reckon that? It's common for a fighter touse dirty tactics and what doyou mean by physical fighter?

You saidyou like Nigel Benn though which I agree he rocks. What did youthink of Benn's fight with Mc Clellan?

I love benn. and hes defintely one of the hardest hitting british fighters of all time. and he got robbed against eubank. I think Benn recorded his best win over a greta fighter like mccllan. benn showed a lot of heart in comingo ff the canvas twice and knocking ihm out. Mccellan was a dnagerous fighter then and had knocked out julian jackson twice and no one wanted to fight gerald. but benn showed guts, and showed he was more than just a good fighter when he got off the canvas to continue to slug it out with him and slowly work his way wearing down mcclelan. Benn had the absolute confidence that he would come back and win and that he hit harder than mcclellan and that confidence he brought intot the ring enabled him to come back from adversity.

its too bad about mccellan, because he had the potentail to be an all time great. its very sad he had to get hurt permantly. but he showed during that littlle time he was a greta fighter.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

john2345 wrote:Not sure I can agree completely, James.... a lot of the time Marciano concentrated on punching the biceps of the opponent and that eventually had a slowing down effect. My point was meant to imply that if he had been coached to fight entirely within the rules he could have been almost as effective.....but I can see your point.

Mind you, on a slightly different tangent, as I recall the Ezzart Charles fight (second one) I think it would have been stopped by today's standards because of the damage to Rocky's nose.

J

Yep, the nose was split right down to the cartalidge, no way that would have been allowed today. Rocky had an almost inhuman ability to absorb punishment.

Yes, I know he used to whack the arms, something which is virtually non-existent today, but he also used to punch fighters in the hips, elbow them and hit below the belt and in the Kidney's as much as possible.

He usually lost a lot of rounds before he caught up with people and began to get to them, in todays game, i doubt he would have had as much success.

There are a few fighters around today that still hit people on the hips and biceps and throw elbows. Watch some of Hattons fights and see how many times in the early rounds he hits his opponents around the hip, It is a good move as it slows down the opponent after a while.