BoxRec

Sorry if this has been posted already, I haven't been visiting as much as I used to!

From the Sunday Herald. Dear me, it's easy to see which camp 'Big Daddy' has thrown his hat into.

"BOXING: allegedly’s row with his prize fighter is harming the sport at a crucial time, says Steve Bunce

What a tiff. In one corner, Ricky Hatton, the darling of the neon ring, and in the other, dapper allegedly, the slick London boxing promoter.
During the last seven days their relationship, like a tacky tabloid sex scandal, has filled the newspapers. Everybody knew the pair had fallen out but boy is it nasty.

The history of their fantastically successful partnership began when Hatton, now 26, turned professional in September 1997 and was fed a steady diet of carefully- selected opponents. All went well and as the quality of the handpicked losers increased, so Hatton’s performances became even more impressive. In 2000, after 21 fights, Hatton won the British title, he won the World Boxing Union version in his next outing and when he last fought in June, he was making the 16th defence of the WBU belt. He is unbeaten in 39 fights.

Hatton’s last fight was what is called in the trade, a “defining fight”. He met and beat Russian-born Australian Kostya Tszyu, who also held the marginally more respectable International Boxing Federation bauble for the light- welterweight division. Tszyu was arguably the best fighter in the world but Hatton forced him to quit in front of more than 22,000 fans.

It was Warren who made the Tszyu fight a reality when most people said it would never happen. “Why would Warren risk his biggest earner in a real fight,” the doubters asked.

Warren, though, had to agree to some unusual terms with the visiting Russian emigre and his sharp-suited coterie. First, an advert for Moscow’s failed bid to stage the 2012 Olympics was all over the ring and Tszyu retained the lucrative TV rights to Russia, America and Australia. There was also a split of profits, which, considering Warren’s skills at the negotiating table, appear to support the promoter’s claim he had to make sacrifices to make Hatton’s dream come true.

So, Warren had kept his prospect unbeaten, delivered a super-fight to Hatton in his hometown and paid him £6,337,315 during the last four years. But after the fight, Hatton, pictured below, and his father Ray, a former reserve player at Manchester City and current discount carpet king of north Manchester, started to talk about being free agents. In America they spoke in public to Warren’s rival promoters and they did the same in the UK.

Warren held a dignified silence, maintaining in private he had the documents that proved Hatton still had three fights left with him. Hatton denied this and at the start of the month rumours of the split spiralled out of control.

On Monday, Hatton confirmed he was leaving Warren and would fight for Sheffield promoter Dennis Hobson in the Yorkshire city on November 26. He challenged Warren to produce a doc ument that proved they still had a deal and also denied he had made more than £6m. Warren threatened legal action, fell silent for 48 hours and then rallied.

Warren produced a contract and a letter which showed that last December Hatton signed and agreed a deal for four more world title fights. Warren also produced the annual breakdown of Hatton’s earnings. It looked like the promoter had trumped the claims of Hatton, his new promoter and their legal teams.

The scene is now set for the pair to meet in court and Warren has already applied for an injunction to stop Hatton fighting for Hobson in Sheffield. “If we have to go to court, that is what we will do,” said Hatton, who insists he will defend his IBF and WBU titles against the World Boxing Association champ ion Carlos Maussa in the November fight.

Warren, meanwhile, continues to extend an olive branch and insists he would rather avoid court and work with the fighter again. However, even in the devious business of boxing there appears to be no way the two could make up and work happily together in the future. But, that is what Hatton will have to do if Warren wins in court.

The Hatton-Warren rift comes at a time when the sport is in need of more fights like Hatton-Tszyu, which was shown on Sky pay-per-view. The shaky re-emergence of ITV, with whom Warren has an exclusive contract, had hoped to use Hatton’s victory and the steady apprenticeship of Amir Khan to build a strong following. Hatton against Maussa would have been big business on ITV. But Khan’s three appearances on ITV have been watched by ever decreasing numbers having slid from 6.3 million in May, to 4.4 million in July and 3.7 million for last weekend’s fight in Cardiff. The figures are not alarming yet, but if they continue to drop, in the absence of a real star or a real fight, there will be a problem.

Khan fights again in Glasgow on November 5 when Scott Harrison appears on ITV 1. Harrison is quality but what ITV and Warren need is Hatton back in the fold and viewing figures to increase. Sky, Hatton and Hobson are, meanwhile, happy with their lot."

I'll see if any of you want to pick up on anything in here first! 8)

Interesting read, not sure I like Bunce's writing to be honest he has written some right tosh in BM.

I read this on another site the other day, and my first impression was 'Blimey, Buncey has thrown his hat in with Frank'. Thursday night's 5live show is essential listening now, surely. Maybe that was the intention, or am I stretching there?

It does seem a little one-eyed, even if Hatton is in the wrong: Surely there's some dirty laundry to come out from the Hatton camp? I just hope the whole mess gets sorted soon, Hatton is too good a fighter, in too good a position (And yes, I recognise who's responsible for that position) to let legal disputes fornicate it all up. Just once, I'd like it if us fans got to hear the whole story. Christ knows how much there is to this one though.

hatton could have shown some loyalty if not to warren then to the terestrial tv viewers who once again will have to endure the prospect of second rate cards and the likelyhood of itv giving up on boxing.

oscar wrote:hatton could have shown some loyalty if not to warren then to the terestrial tv viewers who once again will have to endure the prospect of second rate cards and the likelyhood of itv giving up on boxing.

Rubbish, Hatton has to do what is best for him he is the one taking punches in the head after all. What loyalty, he has fought on Sky his whole career!

nickd wrote:

oscar wrote:hatton could have shown some loyalty if not to warren then to the terestrial tv viewers who once again will have to endure the prospect of second rate cards and the likelyhood of itv giving up on boxing.

Rubbish, Hatton has to do what is best for him he is the one taking punches in the head after all. What loyalty, he has fought on Sky his whole career!

not talking about sky his future fights with warren would have been on itv

oscar wrote:

nickd wrote:

oscar wrote:hatton could have shown some loyalty if not to warren then to the terestrial tv viewers who once again will have to endure the prospect of second rate cards and the likelyhood of itv giving up on boxing.

Rubbish, Hatton has to do what is best for him he is the one taking punches in the head after all. What loyalty, he has fought on Sky his whole career!

not talking about sky his future fights with warren would have been on itv

Well he is not happy with Warren and has to do what is best for him. Boxing is a short career particularly with Hatton's style.

The Hatton V Warren debate concerning if Ricky has made a good decision or not has been very well debated and I think the conclusion is in the short term its best for Ricky.

There are things we will only learn on the matter in a few years time when Hatton is more than likely long retired.

The whole buisness of stating how much Warren had paid Hatton is quite obvious, especially when Ricky denies the amount...maybe the tax man was not aware of it...but Warren has made sure he is now.

The part of Steve Bunces article that really interested me was the part on the viewing figures concerning Amir Khan.
The viewing figures are going down a little each time, not a good sign when boxing should be gaining viewers so to keep ITV on side.

Too much has been put on Khan, he is only starting out in the game, and he is also very young.
The majority of people who will watch him fight will be the occasional boxing fan, the ones who last watched boxing when Benn and Eubank got their pulses racing all them years ago.

I have said it before about the way they build up the young prospects, its the ugly side of boxing that will turn the majority of viewers off.
Nobody likes a bully, nobody wants to watch a one-sided slaughter.
And don`t the British public always love the underdog?

To give Khan prime slot, to stupidly give him the big sell...big boasts of super-stardom and compare him to the likes of Sugar Ray robinson and Oscar De La Hoya...and then give him an absolutely `soft`opponent to beat up on....

And the more they try to dress the opponent up just makes it all the worse...viewers know what they see.

Audley proved how quickly the public fall out of love, take the piss too much and you go from hero to zero before you know it.

Warren has some exciting young fighters who he could use to get the publics attention, and keep Khan in the background to learn his trade, because how they are selling him now the public will not put up with 10-15 one-sided mismatches...his viewers will go elsewhere...and the boxing slot will go to something else.

For me the interesting part in Steve Bunces article was the dwindling viewing figures..lets see where they level off to.

10.30 is too late to be starting ITV shows, they should be doing it at 9.

I don't think there is anything to be overly concerned about the lowering of ratings for the last show. Khan's pro debut was always going to score higher than his 2nd fight - plus I did think there was a slightly bigger advertising campaign for the previous show and Skelton vs Williams (who a lot of people tuned into to see) was a better main event than Calzaghe vs Ashira.

If ITV want to build public interest in boxing they really have to stop sitting on their hands and start work. They currently sit on the most interesting story to have hit British boxing for years, Hatton vs Warren. Are they able to transfer this story into an understandable and exciting spectacle for the public?

I suggest that people watch soaps and dramas because they are exciting. Soaps draw out the blood and guts of dramatised lives and the people flock to watch. ITV have such a blood and guts drama on their hands now and seem to be sitting with one finger up their arse and their thumbs in their mouths!

People at ITV must realise that they work for the punters that watch the ads, not for the high rolling lifestyles that they all enjoy. If they want to make boxing work on the ITV network they need to come down from their ivory towers, grow some balls and get to work.

stujones wrote:I don't think there is anything to be overly concerned about the lowering of ratings for the last show. Khan's pro debut was always going to score higher than his 2nd fight - plus I did think there was a slightly bigger advertising campaign for the previous show and Skelton vs Williams (who a lot of people tuned into to see) was a better main event than Calzaghe vs Ashira.

Calzaghe has got to be a bigger name than Skelton and Danny Williams.

Surely his fight should have got more interest than Skelton V Williams, I know the Skelton V Williams got us more interested but the public as a whole will not have heard of Skelton.

Of course there is no big panic about viewing figures..yet..

But they will have noticed the viewers have almost halved in less than half a dozen fights..sure the time will not help..but then again they might be hoping to catch people coming home from the pub..but either way they cannot be allowed to drop much more...celebrity wrestling was moved down to a Sunday morning when their figures went below 2million...if the figures half again then maybe we`ll have to set our clocks to get up early on a Sunday in the future

when this deal with itv was done they were promised hatton calzaghi in upcoming title fights both now not happening, is skelton now the"star" attraction, itv will be pleased.

tonyevs wrote:

stujones wrote:I don't think there is anything to be overly concerned about the lowering of ratings for the last show. Khan's pro debut was always going to score higher than his 2nd fight - plus I did think there was a slightly bigger advertising campaign for the previous show and Skelton vs Williams (who a lot of people tuned into to see) was a better main event than Calzaghe vs Ashira.

Calzaghe has got to be a bigger name than Skelton and Danny Williams.

Surely his fight should have got more interest than Skelton V Williams, I know the Skelton V Williams got us more interested but the public as a whole will not have heard of Skelton.

Of course there is no big panic about viewing figures..yet..

But they will have noticed the viewers have almost halved in less than half a dozen fights..sure the time will not help..but then again they might be hoping to catch people coming home from the pub..but either way they cannot be allowed to drop much more...celebrity wrestling was moved down to a Sunday morning when their figures went below 2million...if the figures half again then maybe we`ll have to set our clocks to get up early on a Sunday in the future

I wouldn't have said that Calzaghe is as big a name as Danny Williams (following his Mike Tyson exploits and his publicity with the Beeb) also I am only going on about the text messages I had from mates who aren't huge fans (like the Chris Eubank era and will be going to Gammar match next week) but they were perplexed that "if Danny Williams beat Mike Tyson, then how come he is not considered the best in Britain" (i.e. not the British champ). The fact that Williams was challenging sort of made it more interesting for the lay fan stuff like "if Williams is good then what is the champion like" was discussed when I talked to them.

When the Calzaghe fight was announced, they have heard me mutter about his opponents in the past and the text messages I was having were like "Is this guy Ashira any good" and the simple reply was "No". I would then have another reply saying "off to the pub, I might tape Joe".

Crap article.


If the issue was as cut-and-dried as Bunce is implying then Hatton wouldn't be headed to court, he'd be in the gym training for a Warren-promoted fight.




With regard to the ITV viewing figures, they are to an extent hoist by their own petard. They promoted the shit out of Amir Khan (I barely saw anyone else get a look-in in the run-up) and are now finding that folk aren't massively interested in watching him against guys wth palpably fewer skills.

Did they expect Hatton and Calzaghe to be boxing on fortnightly rotation against world-rated opponents?





All in, I don't rate this article. Bunce knows his stuff but he's theatre, not journalism.

Well, this is surprising. I know for a fact that Steve Bunce was hardly Sports Networks favourite journalist, due to his criticism of Warren's stable and the mollycoddling of Hatton.

Personally I don't think Hatton owes terrestrial TV coverage anything...

If it is all about maximizing his earnings it is understandable, but I think it is also a shame. There isn't much loyalty in boxing, but I do think Warren has done an absolutely fantastic job with Hatton, on maxboxing the other day Jason Probst was saying the same thing, that Warren has moved Hatton as masterfully as any promoter since Arum made DLH into a huge star fighting lighter men and over the hill former conteders and champions.

I wonder whether there is a personal element to this between Warren and Hatton Snr, I've heard it said so many times that there was friction between the two men, that there must be some truth to it.

I do wonder whether this is the right move. Whilst I applaud fight Academy for getting their fighters genuine title shots, the fact that Ricky's first defence is off US tv, and the crowd will be half that of his title winning effort does make me wonder.

What deal will fight Academy get with American TV to pay for Hatton's fights. If this next one isn't being shown stateside then how does it all stack up.

nickd wrote:

oscar wrote:

nickd wrote: Rubbish, Hatton has to do what is best for him he is the one taking punches in the head after all. What loyalty, he has fought on Sky his whole career!

not talking about sky his future fights with warren would have been on itv

Well he is not happy with Warren and has to do what is best for him. Boxing is a short career particularly with Hatton's style.

Life style not fighting style. Piss head alcoholic in the making

nickd wrote:10.30 is too late to be starting ITV shows, they should be doing it at 9.

fornicate me, something sensible at last.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well, this is surprising. I know for a fact that Steve Bunce was hardly Sports Networks favourite journalist, due to his criticism of Warren's stable and the mollycoddling of Hatton.

Personally I don't think Hatton owes terrestrial TV coverage anything...

If it is all about maximizing his earnings it is understandable, but I think it is also a shame. There isn't much loyalty in boxing, but I do think Warren has done an absolutely fantastic job with Hatton, on maxboxing the other day Jason Probst was saying the same thing, that Warren has moved Hatton as masterfully as any promoter since Arum made DLH into a huge star fighting lighter men and over the hill former conteders and champions.

I wonder whether there is a personal element to this between Warren and Hatton Snr, I've heard it said so many times that there was friction between the two men, that there must be some truth to it.

I do wonder whether this is the right move. Whilst I applaud fight Academy for getting their fighters genuine title shots, the fact that Ricky's first defence is off US tv, and the crowd will be half that of his title winning effort does make me wonder.

What deal will fight Academy get with American TV to pay for Hatton's fights. If this next one isn't being shown stateside then how does it all stack up.

No doubt it would have been at the MEN but for Warren's petty antics.

Ricky does his work in the ring. End of story.

boxingchat wrote:

nickd wrote:10.30 is too late to be starting ITV shows, they should be doing it at 9.

fornicate me, something sensible at last.

If Hatton fought big american stars onITV they'll be wanting 2 am again!

Since when did Ray Hatton become his manager? Doe he have any experiance in managing at outside of a carpet shop and being a reserve footie player?

If Hatton fought Maussa on ITV it would probably be watch more than it would on Sky Box Office though and he would be a bigger household name outside of Manchester as well.

stepper wrote:If ITV want to build public interest in boxing they really have to stop sitting on their hands and start work. They currently sit on the most interesting story to have hit British boxing for years, Hatton vs Warren. Are they able to transfer this story into an understandable and exciting spectacle for the public?

I suggest that people watch soaps and dramas because they are exciting. Soaps draw out the blood and guts of dramatised lives and the people flock to watch. ITV have such a blood and guts drama on their hands now and seem to be sitting with one finger up their arse and their thumbs in their mouths!

People at ITV must realise that they work for the punters that watch the ads, not for the high rolling lifestyles that they all enjoy. If they want to make boxing work on the ITV network they need to come down from their ivory towers, grow some balls and get to work.

Good post, I was looking forward to ITV's interviewing style as being penetrating (oo er) and proper - as opposed to the more sycophantic Sky style and the just plain insulting BBC style, but it does seem they may be letting the boat sail past on this issue.

"Kostya Tszyu, who also held the marginally more respectable International Boxing Federation bauble"


Usual semi bollocks from Buncey - if you didn't know better, you'd think Tszyu's IBF title was almost on the same level as Hatton's WBU trinket.

Yes, I noticed that, I don't know if he meant to be ironic or sarcastic or what, but to the uninitiated it would appear that the IBF belt was a minor trinket.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, I noticed that, I don't know if he meant to be ironic or sarcastic or what, but to the uninitiated it would appear that the IBF belt was a minor trinket.

And Audley was a world champion aswell, according to what he used to say on the Beeb.