BoxRec

Watching just how good Toney is on the inside, how he can slip a shot and get the upper hand I have to wonder how he would do against Frazier. Frazier would move forward and Toney loves to be backed up, indeed he can fight in either direction.

It just seemed like one tough, brutal, bonecrunching scenario to me.

I'm assuming the majority here will go with Frazier, but I wouldnt sell Toney short in this catagory 5 hurricane of a brawl. If it goes the distance I see Toney with an advantage. I don't see Toney KO'ing Joe Nor do I see Joe KO'ing Toney.

Toney would be susceptible to the Left Hook but he would be forwarned and Toney knows how to improvise like no other. You can't say this would be a boring fight. He would welcome Joe's Smokin.

I figured I owed a good scenario since I put up the Chris Byrd-Jimmy Young scenario a while back that seemed like such a snoozefest.

Frazier would stop Toney or win a comfortable UNI DEC -

Toney has not fought one tough HW (really) - The Holyfield Toney fought wasn't even a shell of the real Holyfield....it was a shell of the shell of Holyfield -

I like Toney a lot - I think an in shape Toney beats Roy Jones at MW, SMW or LHW - A LHW Toney easily beats Tarver -

But Toney couldn't handle prime HW's (good / great HW...which Frazier surly was).

Frazier beats up a fat Toney.

Its hard to judge the mediocre heavyweight contenders of today by the tried and tested ones of yester-year....even the steroid-enhanced ones

As much as I think the Ali-era heavies were overrated, as much as I like Toney and don't like Frazier, and as much as I want to pick Toney and know I could argue that position, I keep thinking of the first Quarry/Frazier fight and how hard Quarry was punching to the body. He was ripping shots that hurt- they had to, and Frazier did sacrifice digging in a trading in favor of quicker combos and stepping to his left- and on more than one occasion nearly got Frazier's right foot off the floor. And that wasn't enough to get him through the fight much less win it.
If that proves anything at all about Toney v Frazier, I can't say. But I won't run my mouth picking against Frazier.

tyhis would be a lopsided massacre... frazier over toney EASY. 4 round KO

Frazier would literally have Toney pissing blood in the dressing room after the fight . . .

Frazier TKO 5.

If Quarry, who countered almost as well as James and was the bigger puncher, couldn't survive Joe on the inside, neither could Toney . .

I don't think Frazier KO's Toney as easy as everyone wants to imagine. I've seen quite a few of both their efforts and all I'm going to say is that both would give all they got and you would get your money's worth and half again.

Anyone who honestly thinks this is a walk in the park for Frazier is either young, or just too romantic about days gone by or both. I'm not sayin Toney wins, I'm just sayin to all my friends here, this would indeed be a class A fight, one that would be worth seeing. And Toney won't be checkin out easy, you would all be proud of the work both of them would turn in.

toney is not a natural heavyweight i just dont see him being able to withstand much punishment from frazier...

I don't think it would be easy for Frazier at all; I don't know fore sure that he'd win. When you get down to it he was a small HW, one handed, and his power was overrated he had to land a lot of to get his man. And Toney would feed him that uppercut like feeding flounders to an orca. Ali laid on the ropes a lot in the first and the third fights and lived to tell and he didn't fight good inside. And Frazier didsn't take it so good on the chin; took a lot on the top of his head but if someone was to hit him with uppercuts and go to his body...

Who has Toney beat at Heavyweight that would suggest he could even be competitive with Frazier?.Completely shot Holyfield or incompetent Ruiz?.

Frazier would make him fight at such a fast pace he would be done after four rounds.After that it would be a brutal beatdown.

BoxBuzz wrote:I don't think Frazier KO's Toney as easy as everyone wants to imagine. I've seen quite a few of both their efforts and all I'm going to say is that both would give all they got and you would get your money's worth and half again.

Anyone who honestly thinks this is a walk in the park for Frazier is either young, or just too romantic about days gone by or both. I'm not sayin Toney wins, I'm just sayin to all my friends here, this would indeed be a class A fight, one that would be worth seeing. And Toney won't be checkin out easy, you would all be proud of the work both of them would turn in.

BoxBuzz I'm usually there with most of your posts (or can see your point of view at the least) - But not on this one (and I'm a Toney fan).

Toney hasn't beaten ONE good HW - Not a signle one - And you are suggesting he could hang in there with a prime Frazier - Not a chance in hell -

Toney has never come close to being hit by someone with Frazier's power or relentlessness - (that is just a fact).

Toney wouldn't have chance in hell with any of the following HW's (in their primes)

Tyson
Lennox
Bowe
Holyfield
Holmes
Frazier
Shavers
Foreman (old and young)
Ali
T. Tucker
B. Dougles
M. Dokes
V. Kilitschko
G. Page
P. Thomas
(and I'm sure I could think of another 10 in the past 10 years that would clearly beat Toney at HW)

Toney would be at his best (and most competitive) at LHW/MW -

Even the Joe Frazier of 1975 vintage would pound the bejesus out
of James Toney, who wouldn't have the power and the strength to
keep him away. Look what Frazier did to Bob Foster, a great
light-heavyweight, and Jimmy Ellis, a smaller heavyweight who
fought in lighter divisions early in his pro career.

It may be that the 1972 Frazier was better than the 1975
model, but the latter was a terrific fighter. Ask Muhammad
Ali.

Yes, I know that Frazier isn't tall, but he has a much more
massive natural build than Toney. In other words, Frazier
was a legitimate heavyweight.

- Chuck Johnston

Frazier had a GREAT chin . . .the shots he took from Quarry, Bonavena, Ellis etc. would've put a lot of men down. Add in the fact that Toney is a fat light HW, and Toney's punching power really isn't in the equation. Frazier was a NATURAL heavyweight with a true heavyweight bone structure and strength. The pressure and strength, combined with his handspeed (frazier had great handspeed in his prime) and unbelievable stamina would do Toney in BAD. Toney likes to relax and pick his shots.

Fighters like Ruiz and Holyfield let him do that. Jirov is a much weaker, less skillful version of Frazier and he gave Toney a lot of trouble. Toney wouldn't have room to pick his shots and the work-rate would kill him, esp. as a fat heavyweight. He can be a successful fatman in today's division b/c conditioning is not the top HW's strong suits. Only Byrd and Toney I would say have true world-class stamina among the top heavyweights today.

Toney BARELY beat Vasili Jirov who put a lot of pressure on him, landed good to the body, etc. Thats the closest comparison you can have for Toney fighting anyone like Frazier. Frazier was a damn site better than Jirov in every department and hed kick Toneys fat ass back to Ann Arbor.[/quote]

Toney has this nifty way of tucking his left shoulder against right hand power shots. It almost looks like he's coming in sideways with his left jab when he's out in the center of the ring. Difficult fighter to hit with a good right hand.

However, seems to me he'd be turned just right for the left hook -- Frazier's bread and butter. That and the fact that Frazier was a bigger puncher (in my opinion) and had a very good chin seems to me to favor Smokin' Joe. Few fighters ever maintained Frazier's pace. And, because I don't think Toney would have the punch to keep Frazier off him, I just think Joe would swarm Toney in a nice brawl fought in very close quarters.

Frazier by a tough UD.

I think the almost unanimous sentiment is reasonable and spot on, but the beauty of this theoretical is that we are talking about two guys who will come to fight, and know how to fight and will work hard to impose their will, come what may, regardless of outcome. Also I don't think Toney would duck Frazier's equal if such a fighter was available to dance.

It used to be the norm. Toney's about the only current crew I can think of that might have an honorable place amoung the 70's. Though he would likely bow to Joe's superiority he could also walk away proud of his effort. I suspect he could take the beating Joe would put on him and I think Joe would know he had been in a fight. (I think dempseyfire might be right about the effect)

I wish I could say that about more of the top 10 HW's today. And Toney is just a puffed up, aging, albeit very talented and determined middleweight. Seems to be just what it takes right now to be champion in this HW era.

Frazier would absolutely destroy Toney inside of four rounds.

though i dont think Toney gets KO'd with a head shot

he would get stopped to the body or would run out of gas........no way his stamina holds up the distance against Fraizer

No way that Toney is competitive here. Frazier was bigger, faster, and punched much harder. He also didn't take rounds off like Toney. Frazier would have been all over him and stopped by the 6th round at the latest.

Yeah everyone seems to think of this as "Quarry lite" I can see the line of reasoning. I'm just on a hunch that he is smarter and would surprise us. I think he has that "mongoose factor" in him like my old fav Archie.

I don't see anyone argueing with the fact that these guys would both give it everything they had. True Warriors. In fact when I think of the "ultimate" warrior in boxing I think of Joe Frazier. He is the archeotypical fighter in my book.

Toney and Quarry have no quit in them. Until of course it is manually extracted as in the case of Frazier Quarry.

Toney was at best a Super Middle, Joe was an alltime top 5 Heavy....he TKO's James...plain and simple. I do agree that Toney at his peak would have beat almost anybody at Middle and Super Middle, but that's about it...too small really to be considered a threat ever at LH or Heavy