BoxRec

Ernie Roderick

The Liverpool Stadium Hero

His career was to last almost 20 years and result in a total of some 139 contests ( won 113, lost 23, drawn 3). He fought unsuccessfully for the world title, won a Lonsdale belt outright and missed a second, held the British titles at welterweight and middleweight, and was briefly the European welterweight champion.

A lesser known title was that of the 1946 Liverpool champion pigeon fancier which gained him a gold medal. He was one of the keenest and most knowledgeable livestock fancier in the country and at one time was the only male member of the Siamese Cat Club. He also had a keen interest in greyhounds.

On leaving school Ernie joined the St. Joseph’s amateur club ( Liverpool) run by Dom and Tony Vairo and was to turn professional in 1931 after winning the Lancashire and Cheshire title.

For the first 12 months his manager was Billy Metcalf of the Greenside gym and then the Londoner Ted Broadribb. They stayed together for the rest of his career but was handled by his brother in law and featherweight champion Nel Tarleton.

His debut pro fight was on 4th June 1931 against another Liverpool fighter Tony Butcher in a ten rounder which he won. His other early wins were against Tom Bailey and Jerry Smith. His first defeat was a points decision against Jimmy Stewart – which he was to later avenge.

In 1933, after some 16 fights, he went to Australia with Nel Tarleton and Johnny Peters “I was still really a raw kid but was matched over 15 rounds with Bobby Blay not long after getting of the boat. I reckon I beat him but only got a draw then lost to Bobby Delaney and Cyril Pluto”.

It was to take some 8 years and 100 fights later before he was to get his first title fight against Kilrain which he won with a 7th round KO in front of a 20,000 crowd at Anfield ( Liverpool). His next fight was against Henry Armstrong for the Americans World Title but lost on points after 15 rounds at Harringay. He was promised a quick return but delayed it for a week as he was married on 26 Aug and when the 2nd World War broke out it squashed his hopes.

He was convinced he would win in a return bout and said of Armstrong “ He was a slapper really and a good referee wouldn’t have given him any points. In addition when I boxed him I was suffering from a thyroid complaint “ …”If I had been properly fit I could have beaten him”.

It was some 14 months ( 1940), due to the war, before he was able to make his first title defence, and retain, by outpointing Norman Snow. In 1941 he secured a Lonsdale belt by outscoring Arthur Danahar. He moved up to middleweight in 1945 and gained the vacant British title by outpointing Vince Hawkins at the Albert Hall and adding the European welterweight title in 1946 with a win over Omar Kondri at Harringay.

As triple champion he was one of Britain’s best paid fighters but within 5 months lost the British middleweight title to Vince Hawkins and later his European title to Robert Villemain in Paris. He still had his British title and put the first notch on a second Lonsdale belt when he outpointed Gwyn Williams. He followed this with another successful defence against Eric Boon.

Then came disappointment when he lost, in a hotly disputed points decision, to Henry Hall. He had one more try but lost to Eddie Thomas and decided to retire on 6th September 1949.


During his career he had an unusual trick for his opponents. He had a life long habit of grabbing a cigarette just before he went into the ring. He would fill his lungs with smoke and puff at his opponents when he ducked under the ropes !. What would they say today?.

http://www.lmu.livjm.ac.uk/inmylife/Cha ... t/1116.htm bio -Merseyside and Wirral Ex boxers

Nice post Rob.


The website is looking better all the time.

thanks mate , it takes time but well worth the effort. will give you a ring about the video tomorrow...finished decorating I trust.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

No!

Good one Rob,

A lot of people are just so use to 'accepting' that world champions and American fighters were the best and it's fighters like Ernie Roderick that 'prove' the quality of opposition and contention-rights these great fighters had back then... But with only one champ in each of the 8 divisions it was IMPOSSIBLE to put ALL of the 'worthy' contenders against each other let alone the champions and lets not forget 'protection and politics, the Bullshit!

It's a shame SO MANY get forgotten... Ernie Roderick IS an All-time great, end of story!!!

P.S. I didn't realize Ted Broadribb was his manager... it shouldn't surprise me though, and it certainly adds more' to a certain Scottish fighters plight!

How very true Jim.As it happens one of our members Freddy Wilks - who is some 80yrs young and attends the meetings, saw him last Sunday in fact - used to spar with Roderick. We are hoping to do a video of Freddy later this year and copy some of his photos. One of which is him with Roderick.

cheers

Uhhh Jim get off your high horse, Roderick got to face the best American and he LOST...

klompton wrote:Uhhh Jim get off your high horse, Roderick got to face the best American and he LOST...

Speaking of high horses Klomp , I think you're riding without a saddle! :x ... giddy up!!. 8) ...

Interesting post... one of the earliest books I got was 'Ring Battles of the Century' by Gilbert Odd and it has a chapter on the fight between Roderick and Armstrong and I remember being very impressed with how Roderick gave the great Armstrong such a good fight for the world title.
There are a lot of British boxers of the past who are all but forgotten today but who mixed with the best... I recently got a biog on Seaman Tommy Watson who fought Kid Chocolate for the world featherwight title in the 30s... these fighters need to be remembered...

The armstrong roderick fight exists on film. if going the distance is giving a good fight then yes roderick gave a god fight, otherwise he was beaten at every aspect of the game.

klompton wrote:The armstrong roderick fight exists on film. if going the distance is giving a good fight then yes roderick gave a god fight, otherwise he was beaten at every aspect of the game.

What is your point?.

My point is that some people here, Jim Glen to name one, seem to be over estimating Rodericks ability while trying to make a case that had the best Euro fighters been given a shot at the best Americans history would somehow be different. Roderick (who some here think was great) got his shot and was beaten convincingly.

klompton wrote:My point is that some people here, Jim Glen to name one, seem to be over estimating Rodericks ability while trying to make a case that had the best Euro fighters been given a shot at the best Americans history would somehow be different. Roderick (who some here think was great) got his shot and was beaten convincingly.

Actually this post is supposed to be simply recalling a outstanding British fighter of the past if you had the time to read it properly. It may surprise you Klomp, but despite us being in a country rather smaller than Florida, we have actually produced more than our fair share of outstanding boxers and indeed many of them found it rather hard to get title fights in America. Jock Mcavoy is one obvious example of a outstanding fighter of ours that was rather strangely not given a shot at the world middleweight title despite knocking out the reigning champion in one round!.
He did get a shot at the Lightheavyweight crown however which I suppose was quite brave of the yanks at the time.... 8)

Was Babe Risko the best America had to offer? I think not. If this win is your claim to McAvoys greatness then thats pretty sad. Beating a mediocre middle from an era of mediocre middles does not a great fighter make. Especially when he outweighed Risko by something like eight pounds. McAvoy was also easily destroyed by Thil, picked apart by Lewis (who only had a four pound advantage), in fact you could argue that Risko was the only important bout in terms of international importance that McAvoy won.

thanks Silkov...yes the point of my post was to celebrate the life of an old time boxer and give info to people which they may well be not aware of. Also to promote the web site of Wirral and Merseyside ex boxers.

It was not my wish this be used as a platform for people to have a go at people who do not share their particular views on the events detailed in the post.

In the past I have tried my very best to suggest to Klompton that he should try and refrain from jumping down peoples throats when he replies to posts. Clearly its to no avail and get again we have the same sort of thing developing like a bloody flu virus.

Having said that i will move on to what is relevant to the post.

Some interesting information with regard to the fight Roderick had is contained within the pages of the Johnny Best book I have is what each person was actually paid for each fight. I will do some examples in the next day or so from the book.

To place the payments in context i will give some idea of what they relate to in terms of the average wage, cost of food and clothing etc.. From a british point of view this is of particular relevance as we have had a change in the currency standard.

no longer the 240 pennies to the pound just 100...god showing my age guys.

If anyone wishes to see some examples of the johnny best book visit the web site or email me and will send you some examples.. no problem

klompton wrote:Was Babe Risko the best America had to offer? I think not. If this win is your claim to McAvoys greatness then thats pretty sad. Beating a mediocre middle from an era of mediocre middles does not a great fighter make. Especially when he outweighed Risko by something like eight pounds. McAvoy was also easily destroyed by Thil, picked apart by Lewis (who only had a four pound advantage), in fact you could argue that Risko was the only important bout in terms of international importance that McAvoy won.

I think its sad that you have to try and denigrate boxers just because they come from a different country to yours and you know almost nothing about them. I advise you to get back onto your horse before it runs away and leaves you stranded out of town. 8)...giddy up!

I dont denigrate boxers because of where they are from. In fact I think much of the talent in the world today that is located in europe doesnt get anywhere near the credit it deserves because major US outlets like HBO and Ring Magazine are only interested in hawking American fighters who are "marketable". I think Thil was a good fighter and he beat McAvoy. Why arent you guys posting about how him? Because hes not from the UK? Maybe its because YOU guys are the ethnocentric ones and not me.

mcavoy was a very good fighter.his wins over harvey and mccoy are noteworthy as well.

klompton wrote:I dont denigrate boxers because of where they are from. In fact I think much of the talent in the world today that is located in europe doesnt get anywhere near the credit it deserves because major US outlets like HBO and Ring Magazine are only interested in hawking American fighters who are "marketable". I think Thil was a good fighter and he beat McAvoy. Why arent you guys posting about how him? Because hes not from the UK? Maybe its because YOU guys are the ethnocentric ones and not me.

Giddy up!... clippity clop!!... 8)

the same len harvey that beat him three out of four tries? the al mccoy win was notable why? because he it was in the usa? because no one had done it before or since? now your just reaching. come on silkov and jimglen ride in on your high horse and save your hero hes floundering in this argument much like his career.

klompton wrote:the same len harvey that beat him three out of four tries? the al mccoy win was notable why? because he it was in the usa? because no one had done it before or since? now your just reaching. come on silkov and jimglen ride in on your high horse and save your hero hes floundering in this argument much like his career.

I suggest if you know so much about these fighters such as Thil then you should do a thread of your own upon them rather than simply coming onto other peoples threads and trying to stir up trouble.
If you really don't think Jock Mcavoy was an outstanding fighter then you don't know half as much about this sport as you try and make out.

Also to enlighten you Klomp on Mcavoys fight with Thil... Jock was by no means 'destroyed' by Thil (who was a very good and rugged fighter) he lost on points (destroyed eh!) after a very close fight which saw Mcavoy fouled unmercifully (the fight was under the no foul rule). And Mcavoy injured his right hand early in the fight as well.
As for Mcavoys losses to Harvey, again, if you think these losses show Mcavoy to be a poor fighter then you are simply displaying your lack of knowledge for all to see.

Jock McAvoy was THEE BEST middleweight in the World then, mid-late 30s!

An era of "mediocre" middleweights(???), well I wish I had the Balls to "marginalize" some very, very good fighters Dundee, Krieger, Apostili, Hostak, Steele, Thil and a few others I can't think of at the moment, BUT...

This Risko either beat or went to town (the distance) with most of them, I agree Risko wasn't the best but he was a good fighter and when I read about him people always bring up his VERY BUSY amateur or Army boxing career which was apparantly very, very, impressive... and McAvoy to quote Ring magazine "DEMOLISHED" him! Which the others couldn't do including the VERY excellent Freddie Steele and Fred Aposili!!!

Al McCoy was a L-HW cum HW, McAvoy, to use an old English expression " leathered" him and McCoy was considered a very good and "FEARED" fighter!!!

As for Thil he WAS a "tough" and very capable fighter also "Feared", So he does get credit for his wins over Mac, Harvey and others... But he was a "dirty' bastard, and EVERYBODY has written about that, its Documented Fact!!! Even you wrote about Thil making a career out of 'fouls', "what now it doesn't suit you Klompton?"

John Henry Lewis, NOT just a L-HW but also a L-HW cum HW and ONE of THEE GREATEST L-HW's there has ever been... That changes it a bit, doesn't it Klompton... McAvoy went the distance with him, I think that speaks volumes! I know the other World's "leading" middles wouldn't have lasted much longer than middle to late rounds with Lewis and even McCoy!!!

Which brings us back to Roderick, Henry Armstong wasn't just a great fighter or great Champion, was he Klompton? NO he was/IS one of the GREATEST P4P fighters who ever lived..! That changes things just a little, doesn't it Klompton? I have seen the fight and Roderick "boxed" beautiful as he does because he was a first class boxer, and he was in the fight ever inch of the way! Armstong "won' as he did with everybody, by imploying a never-ending arms and hands hitting, punching never stop policy as was his trade mark... overwelming fighters piling up points, wearing them down or knocking them out! He was/IS one of THEE GREATEST period.

It's all written, the facts are all there, including Rodericks 'sickness' when fighting Armstrong, which Ernie didn't use as an excuse, He had nothing but praise foe "Hammerin Hank"... He merely stated; "in a rematch I know I can beat him!"

I've never understood WHY in spite of the Facts some people just REFUSE to believe... IT's All There, these guys careers are the envy of any fighter even some fellow greats can't boast such "busy" brilliant careers and victories over the best in the world "rated" world class fighters from one of the greatest periods in boxing... and not just on top for a couple of years but literaly years on end 12-15 years and hundreds of fights..!

Jock McAvoy and Ernie Roderick ARE All-Time Greats, No Question!

So what's the crack then lads?

At least 2 of you claim Armstong vs Roderick was a very close fight. Jimglen says he's seen the fight on film and Silkov read a book

Klompton says it was a very one-sided fight and he too implies he has seen it on film.

Anyone have any links to fight reports of the period or anything like that?

Also, I don't think Klompton originally said anything that should get you guy's backs up. He said the fight wasn't close. How is that disrespecting Roderick? IF the fight wasn't close, then maybe he felt you were disrespecting Armstrong...

I have both the roderick-armstrong fight and Thil-McAvoy fight. Thil didnt foul McAvoy unmercifully. He simply beat the shit out of him. He was all over McAvoy like stink on shit. He floored him and whipped his ass like he was his daddy. Its as simple as that. You dont have to get KOd to be destroyed and McAvoy was destroyed. As for Thil making a career out of fouls, you misquote me. I didnt say he was a dirty fighter. I said he made a career out of WINNING on fouls, i.e. getting the other guy DQ'd.

Roderick was game against Armstrong but that fight wasnt even close. In the british versions of the film the British announcers are lauding him for staying on his feet. But he was sick right

So your contention is that McAvoy would have beaten beaten Steele, Hostak, Thil, and Apostoli and was better than those guys? Considering that he lost a one sided bout to the worst fighter of those four (Thil) I have to laugh at that comment. And yes the era was a weak era as far as the division was concerned. It was a considered a low point in the division between the reigns of Mickey Walker and Tony Zale. Im not basing this on a bunch of articles written by British writers who are making a case for the greatness of their grandads. Im basing it on the footage of the fighters themselves and my own research into the era. Ive seen Roderick, Ive seen Hostak, and Thil, Dundee, Apostoli, and Steele, Broulliard, and Harvey, and McCoy, and Risko, and Mills, and Armstrong, and Bourke, etc etc.

Now answer my question, one Ive posed before to both Silkov and Glen: Did McAvoy or did he not lose every major contest he was in with the exception of the Risko fight? That was the only fight that was against a guy who could have gotten him a shot or a title that he ever won and he had a seven pound advantage. Three months later he was fighting for a light heavyweight championship which he lost along with his next fight against Peterson who wasnt exactly the greatest fighter either (how do I know, Ive got footage of him too...)

Jock McAvoy and Roderick are all-time great UK fighters, not all time greats on the world stage. Had they beaten the likes of Lewis and Armstrong and gone on to beat some more greats, then yes maybe. But simply going the distance with a great fighter (which impresses you but not me) doesnt get you on the bus.