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BENITEZ ONLY 17!!!!

Posted: 06 Oct 2005, 20:20
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
IMO since i am 18, i think winning a world title at 17 is incredible. i mean the guy's balls have barely dropped. anyways, for those of u who watched boxing at the time of benitiez winning the title at 17, what did u thinlk of it???

when u saw a 17 year old kid win a world title against a HOF antonio cervantes, did u expect this kid to be the greatest fighter of all time??


he had all those years ahead of him to get EVEN ALOT BETTER. yet unfortunately he was spent at 24.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 04:04
by Ezzard
It was an amazing accomplishment. I'm just a few years too young to remember so I'm interested in what others have to say.

I heard that he wasn't one for training too much?


Would it have been better for his career if he'd have been held back a little?

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 06:17
by silkov
From what I've heard Benitez's father would take him around the streets and get him to fight grown men when he was just a child... if Wilfredo didn't do well or refused to fight then his father would beat him.
Benitez was an amazing talent... but I think having so many tough fights in the ring at such and early age and who knows how many 'street fights' all contributed to him 'burning out'... and when his speed and reflexes went he started to take more and more punches and suffered some bad beatings in the last part of his career, which is why he is in a bad way today. Wilfredo only trained for 10 days for the Leonard fight. I think the most he ever trained was 3 weeks for the Duran fight... which was probably his greatest performance.

It probably would have been better for both his career and his life had he been put into boxing more gently and been allowed an education as well.
I think much of Wilfredos earnings were squandered by his father.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 07:40
by bollox
silkov wrote:From what I've heard Benitez's father would take him around the streets and get him to fight grown men when he was just a child... if Wilfredo didn't do well or refused to fight then his father would beat him.
Benitez was an amazing talent... but I think having so many tough fights in the ring at such and early age and who knows how many 'street fights' all contributed to him 'burning out'... and when his speed and reflexes went he started to take more and more punches and suffered some bad beatings in the last part of his career, which is why he is in a bad way today. Wilfredo only trained for 10 days for the Leonard fight. I think the most he ever trained was 3 weeks for the Duran fight... which was probably his greatest performance.

It probably would have been better for both his career and his life had he been put into boxing more gently and been allowed an education as well.
I think much of Wilfredos earnings were squandered by his father.
I've read these things many times. Utterly disgraceful behaviour by any father towards their child :x It seems to go hand in hand in these cases that the kid is expected to have the balls that the father obviously didn't

Gerry Cooney and Bobby Czyz come to mind although not to the extent of Benitez. Not so much the physical beatings but the draining mental torture. From what I've read Czyz had an argument one night. Bobby tried to make up with him but the old man refused . So he went to bed and the old man shot himself :roll:

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 08:21
by silkov
bollox wrote:
silkov wrote:From what I've heard Benitez's father would take him around the streets and get him to fight grown men when he was just a child... if Wilfredo didn't do well or refused to fight then his father would beat him.
Benitez was an amazing talent... but I think having so many tough fights in the ring at such and early age and who knows how many 'street fights' all contributed to him 'burning out'... and when his speed and reflexes went he started to take more and more punches and suffered some bad beatings in the last part of his career, which is why he is in a bad way today. Wilfredo only trained for 10 days for the Leonard fight. I think the most he ever trained was 3 weeks for the Duran fight... which was probably his greatest performance.

It probably would have been better for both his career and his life had he been put into boxing more gently and been allowed an education as well.
I think much of Wilfredos earnings were squandered by his father.
I've read these things many times. Utterly disgraceful behaviour by any father towards their child :x It seems to go hand in hand in these cases that the kid is expected to have the balls that the father obviously didn't

Gerry Cooney and Bobby Czyz come to mind although not to the extent of Benitez. Not so much the physical beatings but the draining mental torture. From what I've read Czyz had an argument one night. Bobby tried to make up with him but the old man refused . So he went to bed and the old man shot himself :roll:
Yes, these family things do seem to have a lot in common. There is the Ayala family too where the Ayala brothers were 'bred' into fighters at the expense of all else. I've also read that Jerry Quarry and his brothers were subjected to beatings by their father and that they were forced to fight eachother in vicious sparring sessions that have been sometimes partly blamed for the Quarrys all suffering from ill health later on.
Interesting that both Quarry and Benitez suffered simular ill health... perhaps their out of the ring 'fights/beatings' took as much a toll as their proffessional careers.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 08:43
by Ezzard
Didn't know that about Benitez. That's quite some story, no wonder he had such a great defence. Amazing that he didn't train properly for Leonard. I know that there was a lot of animosity between Wilfred and Duran so I can understand him training for that one.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 09:46
by Nile4000
silkov wrote:From what I've heard Benitez's father would take him around the streets and get him to fight grown men when he was just a child... if Wilfredo didn't do well or refused to fight then his father would beat him.
Benitez was an amazing talent... but I think having so many tough fights in the ring at such and early age and who knows how many 'street fights' all contributed to him 'burning out'... and when his speed and reflexes went he started to take more and more punches and suffered some bad beatings in the last part of his career, which is why he is in a bad way today. Wilfredo only trained for 10 days for the Leonard fight. I think the most he ever trained was 3 weeks for the Duran fight... which was probably his greatest performance.

It probably would have been better for both his career and his life had he been put into boxing more gently and been allowed an education as well.
I think much of Wilfredos earnings were squandered by his father.

He should've took his father out on the street and beat him.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 11:24
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
what was the hype like after benitez beat a HOF to win the title at 17! were people making him out to be the next great. did u guys think he was gonna be the next great? cause he was so young and had so many years left?



i heard the hardest fight he ever trained for was against cervantes.

- benitez trained only 5 days against bruce curry and still was able to eak out a split decision. amazin talent.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 11:28
by Ezzard
Probably the best defence I've seen from a fighter over the last 30 years.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 11:37
by silkov
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:what was the hype like after benitez beat a HOF to win the title at 17! were people making him out to be the next great. did u guys think he was gonna be the next great? cause he was so young and had so many years left?



i heard the hardest fight he ever trained for was against cervantes.

- benitez trained only 5 days against bruce curry and still was able to eak out a split decision. amazin talent.
I think it was accepted from the time he won the title at 17 that he was going to be an all time great. Cervantes was seen as a great boxer in his own right so Benitez beating him was an amazing win, and for a 17 yearold extraordinary. People were already talking about him becoming a 3 time champion and perhaps being the first man to win 4 world titles. As it was he was the youngest man to win 3 world titles. In the early 80s there were many who fancied Benitez's chances against Marvin Hagler till Wilfredo got beat badly by Mustufa Hamsho. That fight was really the begining of the end for Benitez and he was never the same fighter afterwards.
The only questions about Benitez in his prime was his attitude and his training habits. But the truth was he could beat most boxers without hardly any training. Had he trained harder for Leonard I think he could well have beaten him.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 12:16
by Manos de Oro
Wasn't around at the time (was 17 not so long ago myself) but I have seen the fight and, in my opinion, Cervantes fought the wrong fight. He really would've needed to show versatility to win, but he fought his usual fight and paid the price - Benitez had obviously done his homework and I would be surprised to learn if he didn't train for this one.

The commentators in some of his fights do occasionally muse upon what he may achieve, but today, nowadays, I don't think it's worth wasting time over "oh if he'd just trained more for that one", "if only he'd did this or that before hand" etc. He was who he was. The end.

If you know what he looked like in shape, then you know he wasn't 100% for the Leonard fight. Training was not the only factor in this, IMO. A fight of El Radar's that is worth watching, however, is his UD 15 over Roberto Duran. I was watching the dismantling the other day (scorecard below) and really admired his movement, moreso than I have on previous occasions watching this masterclass. It reminded me of the type of movement that DeJesus used to beat Duran.

Didn't even click about the trainers until I looked at DeJesus's record yesterday...

That was probably the last time a so-called 'peak' Benitez appeared in the ring. When he fought Hilton in Canada his balance was totally gone and he even went down from a body shot in the first round if I recall. He had the look of a totally shot fighter. Hell knows what he looked like in the 7 fights after that one.

And, yeah, I've long been of the opinion that the fights he had as a child were a major factor in his present condition. His HBO schedule in the late 70's, early 80's basically sealed it.


Scorecard de Oro wrote:1- Benitez wins circling match with a couple right hands

2 - Duran gets stuck into Benitez and wins clearly

3 - Benitez too quick, too classy at times, shows punching skill here

4 - Benitez shows dodging ability, making Duran miss a lot while still being sharp with his own punches. Duran lands big right hand but Benitez takes it = and the round.

5 - Benitez still making him miss, lands a couple nice right hands that unsettle Duran, who goes a bit flat during the last quarter of the round.

6 - Hard to score - Benitez makes him miss a lot by standing in range and fake-duking, but doesn't land much while doing so - only a left hand to the ribs that was partially blocked. Duran lands two hard right hands that look to quickly stun Benitez, closing the round strong. Even.

7 - Benitez lands a left jab and Duran then matches it before forcing the action all through this round - backing up Benitez to the ropes and actually landing on him. A big uppercut appears to buzz Duran just before the rounds close, causing a cut, but it's not enough.

8 - Pretty even, both fighters keep the action up but there's not a lot in the punches. Benitez lands a few sharp, really sharp, shots, which edge the round to him.

9 - Benitez too sharp, lands quite a few classy shots but does take a big right hand while laying on the ropes. Overall he was more active than Duran and had more authority in there.

10 - Benitez comes out showing his strength - going for bombs in good executioner style. Duran looks slightly rocked when taking one, but comes back to stink out the rest of the round by lots of spoiling; very intelligent fight this. Benitez still showing extraordinary sharpness at most points.

11 - Pretty much an even round - another 'action breather' as both refuse to clinch, but equally can't put enough strength into their punches. Both land flush apiece in the first three quarters but Benitez finishes stronger and may nick the round.

12 - Another even round with Benitez's sharper jabbing maybe nicking it, then a big right hand wobbles Duran a little near the end, before Duran clocks Benitez right before the bell. Close round to Benitez.

13 - Even round. Duran fights without a mouthpiece and forces the action well - particularly with the (double) jab, however neither lands anything significant.

14 - Even round. Duran tries to flurry the last 30 seconds but it's not enough. Benitez doesn't do enough to win it either.

15 - Even round till about 2:30, when Benitez backs into a corner and motions Duran in. Duran, fighting again without a mouthpiece, lands about as much as Benitez dodges. I'd say the landed punches were of more variety and quality than the dodging (which lacked the nuance of Benitez's earlier lateral movement - I think he did this because he was tired). Duran's round.


Duran - Benitez

1: 9 - 10

2: 10 - 9

3: 9 - 10

4: 9 - 10

5: 9 - 10

6: 10 - 10

7: 10 - 9

8: 9 - 10

9: 9 - 10

10: 9 - 10

11: 9 - 10 (close)

12: 9 - 10 (close)

13: 10 - 10

14: 10 - 10

15: 10 - 9

Duran 141 - 147 Benitez

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 14:18
by -KOKid-
Certainly Benitez was something else in terms of talent. A real shame he ended up the way he did. He belongs in that "come up fast, burn out quick" category.
Davey Moore was another one of that kind, as was Lionel Rose. No one ever believed that these guys would be shot by the time they reached their mid twenties when they first were coming up.

-KOKid-

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 14:27
by silkov
-KOKid- wrote:Certainly Benitez was something else in terms of talent. A real shame he ended up the way he did. He belongs in that "come up fast, burn out quick" category.
Davey Moore was another one of that kind, as was Lionel Rose. No one ever believed that these guys would be shot by the time they reached their mid twenties when they first were coming up.

-KOKid-
Davey Moore was a tragic case... nothing seemed to go right for him after the Duran fight and his early death was very sad.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 15:17
by bollox
A bit more on the father/son business - the Ayala brothers were forced to eat raw jalapeno beans as youngsters (hot as all hell) so the old man could see who could last the longest and which was therefore the 'toughest'. What a guy huh? :roll:

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 15:28
by -KOKid-
silkov wrote:Davey Moore was a tragic case... nothing seemed to go right for him after the Duran fight and his early death was very sad.

Yeah, that beating he receieved from Duran was the beatdown of the decade, way beyond that selfconfidence shattering, brutal KO loss. A drawn out, sutained, systematic hiding.
You just knew that he'd never be the same after that fight. And at the same time, it made Duran all that much greater. What a twisted sport boxing actually is! But, boy, I love it!

-KOKid-

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 16:10
by silkov
bollox wrote:A bit more on the father/son business - the Ayala brothers were forced to eat raw jalapeno beans as youngsters (hot as all hell) so the old man could see who could last the longest and which was therefore the 'toughest'. What a guy huh? :roll:
Yeah. Joe Fraziers guidence of sons Marvis' career left a lot to be desired as well... I remember when Larry Holmes was forced to defend the title against Marvis he said 'Joe must have gone crazu to put his son in against me after just 10 fights!'.
Sean O'Gradys career was rather eccentrically guided by his father... he just got hold of a world title and his father gets him stripped for not defending against a boxer O'grady would probably have beaten!....
The Hilton family is another boxing family in which the talented boxing brothers seemed to destroy their careers... I seem to remember amongst the many things they did was a bank robbery after an all night drinking session!.

Posted: 07 Oct 2005, 16:15
by bollox
Tis all true unfortunately :-? Frazier Snr once said "if you can't take a good arse whipping then you shouldn't be a fighter" then proved it by sacrificing his own son against Holmes

2 of the Hiltons (Mathew was one) robbed a hotdog seller when pisht. The cops found him asleep in the back of a car, mustard and tomato sauce all over him I bet :TU: