BoxRec

a little bored.. been thinking of some mythical matchups and this one crossed my mind..is this a dempsey blowout>? i think dempsey definatly wins, but i could see floyd making it interesting.. but anyway ill take Dempsey by 9 round TKO.

Dempsey TKO 2 floyd patterson

Dempsey by early KO. Hell, all he would need to do would be to connect with just one flurry of punches, something he'd be likely to to against any heavyweight in history during the first few rounds.
No fighter without a good chin would beat Dempsey.

-KOKid-

Dempsey never fought anyone as fast or powerful as Patterson.

I see this bout as going either way.

Dempsey by KO1. If Liston could catch him early so could Dempsey, who was MUCH faster than Liston.

yeah i think dempsey very early as well.may take as long as 3.

Rory McCloskey wrote:a little bored.. been thinking of some mythical matchups and this one crossed my mind..is this a dempsey blowout>? i think dempsey definatly wins, but i could see floyd making it interesting.. but anyway ill take Dempsey by 9 round TKO.

Not even a contest. The first hard blow that Dempsey landed, would send Floyd into retirement.

Dempsey wins by KO in the 2nd round.

The Great Floyd Patterson who I am told over and over again that I simply do not have a thorough understanding of can only last a few rounds with Dempsey? The same Floyd Patterson that won 2 out of 3 with the Mighty Ingemar? Who Beat Archie Moore? And who I have been told and lectured to was on the verge of beating The Greatest when his back just suddently gave out and was luckily caught?

The Floyd that just got better with time and gave Quarry all he could handle and pounds out a win over Oscar Bonavena?. Whom I was told might have stopped Marciano from obtaining his 50th win? This guy can only last a few rounds at most with Jack Dempsey?

Gentlmen we are in agreement.

BoxBuzz wrote:The Great Floyd Patterson who I am told over and over again that I simply do not have a thorough understanding of can only last a few rounds with Dempsey? The same Floyd Patterson that won 2 out of 3 with the Mighty Ingemar? Who Beat Archie Moore? And who I have been told and lectured to was on the verge of beating The Greatest when his back just suddently gave out and was luckily caught?

I take it you haven't seen it then? Ali whipped Patterson from the first bell to the last, the second time they fought I thought Patterson did better and he was pretty well past it by then

Point of order, Mr Bassie did not weigh in on the questin at hand.

IF Dempsey would fight Patterson becuase you know...he was one
of those...dark skinned types...

I see Patterson winning with his speed, accuracy and better boxing
skills. I dont see him stopping Dempsey, but I do see him winning
a decison.

Though Patterson does hit harder than Jim Flynn.

Patterson hasn't a prayer, & I'm not one (as many are) to under-estimate the man, but this bout isn't going anywhere.

There are two conventional manners in which to beat Dempsey --- the first is to take the fight to him, & overpower him. The second is to box & pick your shots, feint & stay clear of the left hand (& his under-rated right).

In the first instance, Patterson isn't going to beat Dempsey coming at him. Chin, power & finishing ability all favour Dempsey. Patterson had astonishing handspeed, & his power is criminally disrespected by many, but he wasn't a boxer-mover. He came forward. His footspeed & style weren't geared toward outmanoeuvring an opponent, & Dempsey wasn't easy to effectively befuddle in that fashion, anyway.

Patterson cannot win. Dempsey's hitting power is on a par with Liston's, but, as John L correctly noted, he's more explosive than Liston, & more energetic in his assault. One round. Maybe two.

i think, on a Floyds day, he could outbox Dempsey.
However, Dempsey would probably win 2/3 in a trilogy.

Robinson wrote:IF Dempsey would fight Patterson becuase you know...he was one
of those...dark skinned types...

I see Patterson winning with his speed, accuracy and better boxing
skills. I dont see him stopping Dempsey, but I do see him winning
a decison.

Though Patterson does hit harder than Jim Flynn.

Wow, Jim Flynn. Dempsey's lone (and very possibly not legit) knockout loss in over 80 professional contests.

To suggest Dempsey 'ducked' black fighters is hogwash. During the period he came up in the rankings (1918-1919) the 'Black Foursome' of Langford, Johnson, Jeannette, and McVey were old and washed up (in Jack's case in prison). The top HWs of the period were . . .duh duh Duh . . .white folks. Dempsey tore through them like a knife through hot butter, and often had top black HWs as sparring partners who he often whipped in the gym as well. Willis was really the only top black HW who had a claim to fight Dempsey once Jack won the title and that fight didn't happen for a variety of political and logistical reasons.

Back to the fight, Patterson is not a slickster. He comes forward, he gets hit. He had a fairly weak chin. No way does he beat Dempsey.

DF,

So Dempsey never ducked Wills ?

And in those 3 years that he sat on the title and never
defended it...their were no contenders to defend against
white or black ??

I personally believe as great as Dempsey was, when he
fought, that a tip top Patterson wins.

You and I can agree on one thing, regardless of who
we would lay our money on...it would be sure entertaining.

observer1 wrote:i think, on a Floyds day, he could outbox Dempsey.
However, Dempsey would probably win 2/3 in a trilogy.

What is this, "outbox" business? Patterson was a forward-moving fighter. He didn't fight backing up, he didn't fight side-to-side with lateral movement --- he came forward.

He's not, "outboxing" Dempsey, something Tommy Gibbons couldn't effectively do, incidentally.

He also moved laterally well and spurted and then backed off.

he did not always come forward. Though he is most famous for it.

Robinson wrote:DF,

So Dempsey never ducked Wills ?

He signed a contract to fight him and took out ads in newspapers to raise money to hold the fight after the original funding fell through. So the answer is no.

Someone please point me in the direction of a fight where Patterson boxed & moved, outmanouvering his opponent & fighting in reverse, throughout the course of the fight.

Chuvalo comes to mind..he never 'stuck and moved'
he did use angles give up ground...spurt...

from memory he did something similar at times against
Ellis and Bonavena.


re: Wills and Dempsey....yes the money was raised and
interest was garnered....yet the fight never happened...
Meanwhile Dempsey went 3 years without a defence...
in this classical...golden era of boxing maybe their was
no contenders ?

I can not think of too many fights of Patterson where he
was straight in...flat footed and in your face type of
slugger...he did use movement and angles...

incidentally I just uploaded Patterson vs McNeeley...

Tommy Gibbons couldn't defeat Jack Dempsey moving away & boxing. The Tommy Gibbons --- next to Harold Johnson --- arguably the 175lb division's most under-appreciated fighter through history.

Was Patterson more elusive than Gibbons?

Was Patterson more durable than Willard?

Was Patterson a harder puncher than Firpo?

Yes to all three.

I personally do not rate those 3 man very highly at all/

As sacred as that era is to many here.

Willard is just horrible.

Firpo was big, and hit hard no doubt but I do not give himm
much credit at all.

Gibbons I have to be honest, I have not seen as much as I would
like on...but I would say Harold Johnson walks all over him.
Though I think Gibbons would make a good Greco Roman wrestler
though. He has a damned good clinch, and active hips and pummeling
skills. Shame most ref's would not let one get away with those
attributes.

Just my opinions though :P

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=6npcgZUQW4k

Gibbons gets some good two on ones, from the clinch...
he also ties up well against Dempsey.

I would love for some one to compu box some of these old
bouts. Just for interests sake.

edit