BoxRec

Joe Louis KO 11 Jack Johnson


what are your thoughts

I don't see Jack getting stopped. He had a solid chin and very great defensive skills.

Overall, I see Jack edging Louis in a very close decision. Both can be argued as being the best heavyweight ever, and are evenly matched in size, power, and skill. Johnson couldn't toy around with Louis and would have to be in his best fighting demeanor and shape and louis would have to be able to adapt quickly against the dual fighting Johnson. Wouldn't be a slugging classic, but would be an exciting tactical boxing showdown.

But in a rematch, I'd say Louis even the odds with a pretty clear cut decision, though Johnson wins convincingly in a rubber match n my opinion.

I like Louis by narrow decision in this one. My reasoning being that Louis was a very good infighter who could throw and hurt opponents with short punches. Johnson would get caught often enough by these punches when going in to tie up Louis.
It would likely be a messy, mauling fight, like so often was the case with Johnson. The judges would give it to Louis for being the agressor and connecting with more punches.

-KOKid-

well joe louis defintely had the power and punching skills to KO johnson. i mean johnson had a good chin, but defintely not unbreakable by any means. when u get floored by one punch FROM A MIDDLEWEIGHT, it shows he doesnt have the best chin in the world. ketchell was one of the hardest hitting middleweights but fact is he was a middleweight, and no middleweight should be able to floor johnson.

- u can say johnsoin was caught off gaurd, but thats johnson fault, and so were many other fighters cuaght off gaurd, johnson should have been able to stay on his feet from that right hand IMO.





anyways, johnson was a great defensive fighter and i see him giving louis lots of trouble early on like walcott but i seee louis catching up to johnson, pouring the pressure, and finding the opening and tagging johnson. johnson loved to tie up and louis would catch him wit hard combos on the inside when johnson tried to do this.

Johnson got floored by Ketchel because he had agreed to take it easy on Ketchel and have a 'show' fight. Then Ketchel decided to go for it. The fact that Johnson got up instantly and koed Stanley with his next punch prove that 1. Johnson was not badly hurt. 2. He had been carrying Ketchel up to that point.
Johnson would beat Louis on points I think. Or perhaps late round ko. Out of the two Johnson probably had the best one punch power. Louis used to knock opponents out with flurries rather than single punches.
Johnson would be too clever and mobile for Joe.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:well joe louis defintely had the power and punching skills to KO johnson. i mean johnson had a good chin, but defintely not unbreakable by any means. when u get floored by one punch FROM A MIDDLEWEIGHT, it shows he doesnt have the best chin in the world. ketchell was one of the hardest hitting middleweights but fact is he was a middleweight, and no middleweight should be able to floor johnson.

- u can say johnsoin was caught off gaurd, but thats johnson fault, and so were many other fighters cuaght off gaurd, johnson should have been able to stay on his feet from that right hand IMO.

anyways, johnson was a great defensive fighter and i see him giving louis lots of trouble early on like walcott but i seee louis catching up to johnson, pouring the pressure, and finding the opening and tagging johnson. johnson loved to tie up and louis would catch him wit hard combos on the inside when johnson tried to do this.

Tommy Burns was a middleweight and Bob Fitzsimmons was a middleweight/LH. They didn't kayo or knockdown any heavyweights?

Johnson was only down for about two or three seconds on one knee, got up with a smile and knocked Ketchel completely senseless. I don't even think Johnson was hurt, just suprised. And I've never seen a kayo that viscious. And Ketchel hit him with his best shot, as Ketchel looked scared shitless when he looked at his manager when Johnson got up and smirked.

Johnson, from what I've seen or read, was never hurt in his prime. He even left his stomach open to Burns to punch and laughed after Burns hit him. And Burns KO ratio shows, he was no featherfisted puncher. Johnson could take a punch, but most of the time he made them miss.

The Ketchel, Jeffries, and Burns fights show he could take a guy out whenever he wanted. Johnson was in control every moment of his fights. I love Johnson, but think Louis would give him a serious go of it. I think Johnson was the greatest heavyweight overall, but Louis was more talented. I give the edge to Johnson because Louis could be befuddled and took a long time to adapt in fight. Johnson would talk and move, but would get serious after taking a Louis shot. IMO, 9-6 in rounds, with Louis going down once late.

I rate Joe Louis at number 1 in my all time HW list, but I have to admit that Johnson would have given him a world of trouble.

I think they would have to have 2 or 3 fights to sort it out.

I'm going for a 15 round draw, then they have a rematch & Louis wins on cuts!!!!

Syntax Error wrote:I rate Joe Louis at number 1 in my all time HW list, but I have to admit that Johnson would have given him a world of trouble.

I think they would have to have 2 or 3 fights to sort it out.

I'm going for a 15 round draw, then they have a rematch & Louis wins on cuts!!!!

Though I agree with your assessment, either fighter could edge the other and is hard to predict, why do you feel Louis would beat Johnson on cuts? I've never heard Johnson was a bleeder or cut easily.

silkov wrote:Johnson got floored by Ketchel because he had agreed to take it easy on Ketchel and have a 'show' fight. Then Ketchel decided to go for it. The fact that Johnson got up instantly and koed Stanley with his next punch prove that 1. Johnson was not badly hurt. 2. He had been carrying Ketchel up to that point.
Johnson would beat Louis on points I think. Or perhaps late round ko. Out of the two Johnson probably had the best one punch power. Louis used to knock opponents out with flurries rather than single punches.
Johnson would be too clever and mobile for Joe.

didn't he floor ketchel heavily in the second?hardly the actions of someone carrying another.the punch was hardly a sneak punch as jack claimed either.this story circulated after ketchel was killed and unable to refute it.johnson was a known liar so his story should be given little credence.its quite possible to ko ketchel the next punch as ketchel ran straight onto it doubling the impact in his eagerness.johnson was hurt as well.he started this story to cover up the embarrasment of being floored by a smaller man.where did he looked scared?i think this is a case of myth overtaking reality.didn't marvin hart give johnson all sorts of trouble too?
imo louis would be able to stop johnson.

I'd go with Joe Louis on this too. Johnson was better defensively, but Joe could adapt to that and win. It wouldn't be an easy time of though.

Johnson had a solid chin, but louis had great power, i think its enough to KO johnson in 13

dalek wrote:

silkov wrote:Johnson got floored by Ketchel because he had agreed to take it easy on Ketchel and have a 'show' fight. Then Ketchel decided to go for it. The fact that Johnson got up instantly and koed Stanley with his next punch prove that 1. Johnson was not badly hurt. 2. He had been carrying Ketchel up to that point.
Johnson would beat Louis on points I think. Or perhaps late round ko. Out of the two Johnson probably had the best one punch power. Louis used to knock opponents out with flurries rather than single punches.
Johnson would be too clever and mobile for Joe.

didn't he floor ketchel heavily in the second?hardly the actions of someone carrying another.the punch was hardly a sneak punch as jack claimed either.this story circulated after ketchel was killed and unable to refute it.johnson was a known liar so his story should be given little credence.its quite possible to ko ketchel the next punch as ketchel ran straight onto it doubling the impact in his eagerness.johnson was hurt as well.he started this story to cover up the embarrasment of being floored by a smaller man.where did he looked scared?i think this is a case of myth overtaking reality.didn't marvin hart give johnson all sorts of trouble too?
imo louis would be able to stop johnson.

Johnson did floor Ketchel earlier in the fight, but he wasn't going for the knockout.
Johnson literally holds Ketchel up numerous times throughout the fight so Stanley won't go down. It's all in the film. It's a clear job of carrying an opponent if I've ever seen one . . .literally.

Sherlock wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:I rate Joe Louis at number 1 in my all time HW list, but I have to admit that Johnson would have given him a world of trouble.

I think they would have to have 2 or 3 fights to sort it out.

I'm going for a 15 round draw, then they have a rematch & Louis wins on cuts!!!!

Though I agree with your assessment, either fighter could edge the other and is hard to predict, why do you feel Louis would beat Johnson on cuts? I've never heard Johnson was a bleeder or cut easily.

It was my way of sitting on the fence.

I can't see Louis KOing Johnson & I think he'd find it difficult to outpoint him also, such was Johnson's skill, so I felt with Joe's short accurate punches, he might be able to inflict some cut damage.

Jack survives a Louis onslaught in the late rounds to hold a close decision.

ill say this, johnson doesnt have a good enough chin to surivive louis onslaught if louis catches him, in fact no one does.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Joe Louis KO 11 Jack Johnson


what are your thoughts

Joe Louis would have violently K.O.ed the overrated Johnson.Johnson had his way with plodders.It didn't matter Jeffries was who he was,he was old,far past his prime,and again a plodder.Oh sure if you stood your ground,he would take your head off.But the slightest movement is enough to offset this,especially considering,advanced age,lack of conditioning etc.Joe Louis was one of THE GREATS.It may have taken him a couple of rounds to figure Johnson,but after that,Louis would be on him throwing deadly combinations,that most surely would have Johnson OUT by the 10th rd.(and that's being generous to Johnson)Johnson was big,long armed,and presumably tough,HOWEVER,he was far from the Great that many "experts"dream him to be.Many,Many fighters of the past,and present would have beaten Johnson,among them,Dempsey(don't buy that worn out "Dempsey was afraid,so he used skin color to avoid it"),Marciano,Cassisus Clay,Archie Moore,Frazier,and on & on,and yes even both Klitschkos Johnson just benefitted from being among the most agile of the big men of his time.The ones who were his equal,either beat him,OR were avoided.You don't believe me,look back at the film that is available on him,and TRUTHFULLY compare it to other fighters that I have mentioned.
zuru

zuru wrote:Many,Many fighters of the past,and present would have beaten Johnson... and yes even both Klitschkos

How about Valuev? Could he have beaten him also?

zuru wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Joe Louis KO 11 Jack Johnson


what are your thoughts

Joe Louis would have violently K.O.ed the overrated Johnson.Johnson had his way with plodders.It didn't matter Jeffries was who he was,he was old,far past his prime,and again a plodder.Oh sure if you stood your ground,he would take your head off.But the slightest movement is enough to offset this,especially considering,advanced age,lack of conditioning etc.Joe Louis was one of THE GREATS.It may have taken him a couple of rounds to figure Johnson,but after that,Louis would be on him throwing deadly combinations,that most surely would have Johnson OUT by the 10th rd.(and that's being generous to Johnson)Johnson was big,long armed,and presumably tough,HOWEVER,he was far from the Great that many "experts"dream him to be.Many,Many fighters of the past,and present would have beaten Johnson,among them,Dempsey(don't buy that worn out "Dempsey was afraid,so he used skin color to avoid it"),Marciano,Cassisus Clay,Archie Moore,Frazier,and on & on,and yes even both Klitschkos Johnson just benefitted from being among the most agile of the big men of his time.The ones who were his equal,either beat him,OR were avoided.You don't believe me,look back at the film that is available on him,and TRUTHFULLY compare it to other fighters that I have mentioned.
zuru

In tapes Johnson is fast, quick handed, fight controller, and powerful. He rips Burn's head from shoulder to shoulder with uppercuts. Battered Burns and Jeffries into bloody pulps. Take in mind, though Jeffries was old and Burns was short and lighter, Johnson was over 30, no spring chicken himself. We don't have the benefit of seeing Johnson in his prime, but he is in no way overrated. To say Marciano, Moore, Frazier, and Ali beat him easliy shows your ignorance.

It is obvious that Ali, Louis, and even Tyson learned from Johnson. Louis wanted Johnson wanted Johnson in his corner, but to save his image Johnson was barred. Johnson also pointed out that Louis was susceptible to the overhand right, which Schmeling battered him with.

But back to the fight. A point that should be taken is that Louis was not a good infight adapter. When he had trouble with a fighter, he struggled with that fighter to the end. Johnson was a two pronged fighter. He could fight inside and box on the outside, and would have given Louis fits. I wouldn't agrue a close Louis decision, but no way does Louis, or any heavyweight in history for that matter, easily handle Johnson.

But, maybe those "experts" are wrong. Nat Fleischer, who called Johnson the greatest heavyweight ever, is nobody compared to Zuru.

sherlock wrote

We don't have the benefit of seeing Johnson in his prime,

- i disagree, johnson said his best fight was against james jeffries and that was when he was 32. and when he beat burns he was 30 which is no old at all for a heavyweight. i beleive johnson was still in his prime up until around 33 then he slipped. johnsons prime ranged from 26 years old to 32 years old IMO. i have no doubt when he won the title he was still in his prime.


zuru, i think ur going way too far there. i dont think johnson wa the greatest of all time, but he definetley was one of the greatest and top 5 material. i like u didnt think much of him at first, and then i watched his tapes more and read up on more and found how great he truelly was. the guy was a defensive genius, and the greatest heavyweight ring technicican of all time. one of my favorite fighters is jersey joe walcott and every time i watch him on tape he reminds me of jack johnson without the shuffle. johnson on tape toyed with his opponents and laughed at them. johnson didnt even need to try. he countered everything the threw.

- he also beat tough competetion and most of it was in pre title days. he beat tough HALL OF FAME heavyweights like sam mcvey, joe jeanette, and he beat HOF sam langford. many people think he was a big heavy beating on a 156lb langford, but in fact johnson was only 185lb for that bout. he beat many other greats, but thats a short list of hall of famers for u.

- johnson was a big strong man who loved to clinch and he was so much stronger than eveyone else. he wore people out in the clinches. he also had KO power. johnson possessed a pretty deadly right uppercut.


- johnson i rate him 4th all time heavyweight, no doubt hes one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time.

i also think he would outbox both klitschkos and make them look silly.


“Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.” - nat fliescher

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:ill say this, johnson doesnt have a good enough chin to surivive louis onslaught if louis catches him, in fact no one does.

i agree 100%

When rating these fighters from pre-Louis era... Please remember to factor in the GLOVES and RULES they used.

But, maybe those "experts" are wrong. Nat Fleischer, who called Johnson the greatest heavyweight ever, is nobody compared to Zuru


Zulu got it right on the money. Johnson is overated. In accomplishments he may be as great as Fleischer thought he was but in head to head compitition alot of heavyweights beat him. Joe Louis was much more advanced fighter than Johnson anyone he ever fought.

theone wrote:Joe Louis was much more advanced fighter than Johnson anyone he ever fought.

...than Johnson anyone he he ever fought?? What does that mean?

Are you trying to say that Louis was a more advanced fighter than anyone Johnson ever fought? If so, I would certainly say that Louis was a better fighter than anyone Johnson ever fought. Also a better fighter than any other HW ever fought as well.

theone wrote:But in head to head compitition alot of heavyweights beat him.

Why? Because Johnson fought in the teens?

Are you trying to say that Louis was a more advanced fighter than anyone Johnson ever fought?

Yup. I was rushing and didnt proof read.

I would certainly say that Louis was a better fighter than anyone Johnson ever fought. Also a better fighter than any other HW ever fought as well.

I disagree with the second part of the sentence, since there are fighter who fought Ali.