BoxRec

who wins?

- hard to have this fight under queensberry rules, it would most likely be a bare knuckle fight


- molineaux was actually a relative of light heavyweight great john henry lewis.


- anyone have any great stories about molineaux, he fought way back in the early 1800s

Using which rules? The London Prize Ring Rules weren't adopted until the 1840's, so molineaux fought using the earlier rules. The winner would be based upon the rules used for the fight, although I think John L was a much more accomplished fighter than molineaux.

Of course, I'd have to see tapes of each of them fighting to really determine who would win.

I posted this and a pile more some time back. Have a few articles on him if you want them.

A great story from the past


10 THE SYRACUSE HERALD: WEDNESDAY EVENING, SEPT. 18, 1918.
James J. Corbett
Molineaux First American Fighter to Invade
England and Achieve Success.

Among the romances of the ring is that which deals with
Tom Molineaux, an American negro who went to Europe
more than a Century ago and gaine a wonderful reputation.

Molineaux was born into slavery on a Virginia plantation
and lived there during his boyhood and young manhood.
He matured at an early age and developed into a most
Powerful fellow. Although only 5 feet 9 inches tall he
possessed, uncanny strength and agility and soon became
recognized as the "King" among the negroes in his own
neighbourhood.

In another part of Virginia lived a giant who occupied
in his own district a position similar to Molineaux
The tales of Molineaux's greatness annoyed him.He wanted to prove
He was the greatest battler in the state. So he begged
Of a few days from his master sought out Molineaux
And challenged him to a battle.

Molineaux obliged - and using the rough and terrible
Style of battling which was the popular American style
Of fighting in those days, almost annihilated his
Adversary.

Molineanx's master was an interested spectator and
He was fond of pugilism. Molineaux's natural fighting
Skill so impressed the plantation owner that he hired
A white man, who knew about the London Prize ring
Tricks to teach the Negro.Molineaux proved to be
An apt pupil. After being tutored for several
Months his master said to him:

"You ought to be a good fighter now if you ever
will be.I am going to give you a try out against
a bigger man than you are.And he's said to be a
greater fighter than you. If you whip him
you can have your freedom: if you don't
you remain a slave."

Molineaux won with ridiculous ease.

A few months later Molineaux a free man
And possessed of a "Stake" which was given
To him by his former master sailed to London.
England scoffed at his claim as a fighter and for
A long time the Negro was, as a challenger, ignored.

Just as his funds were about exhausted the tide of
Fortune swung in his favour. He got a match with an
"unknown" in reality a prominent English fighter
of that era who figured it "easy pickins" to whip
Molineaux and win the $125 purse which a group
Of British sportsmen had hung up.

But the "Unknown" was accorded a rude surprise.
The fight , July 14, 1810, was a victory for the
American Negro.So easily and quickly did he
Triumph that his fame and name were heralded
Throughout England.

Soon afterwards he whipped Tom Blake in 8 rounds and
Met and defeated a half dozen "unknowns" for purses
Ranging from $10-$150. Sums insignificant with present
Day but "big money" in the days of Molineaux.

On December 18, 1810, Molineaux having established
Himself as a really great fighter was given a chance
At Tom Cribb, then champion of England. The men fought
In the open in weather that was bitterly cold. This which
Mitigated against Molineaux's chances.Sleet began to fall
Soon afer the battle started and the Negro, born and
Raised in a warm climate, was chilled to the marrow.

Yet he fought a game and wonderful fight. Battling
Methodically Molineaux gradually beat Cribb to a point
Near exhaustion. From the 24 round to the 30 round it
Seemed an absolute certainty the Negro would win. He
Was in far better condition than his bleeding and
Battered rival. When the 31st began it seemed only a
Question of a few more rounds before Cribb would
Crumple to the turf- and stay there.

But in that round Molineaux after throwing Cribb
Stumbled and pitched headlong against one of the
Stakes. The impact came within an inch of smashing
His skull. His backers later insisted it did cause
A fracture which was never mended by surgical aid.

Molineaux was helped to his feet and resumed fighting
Within the call of time for the 32nd round.But he was
dazed and bewildered. Cribb almost exhausted himself
had no trouble throwing Molineaux. The Negro respondered
to the call of time for the 33rd round reeling and
staggering like a drunken man.

Cribb coming out from his corner needed only to bump
Into Molineaux to send him tottering to the earth.The
Negro made two feeble efforts to rise then fell back
And moaned "I can fight no more"

Some months later Molineaux asked for a return match
With Cribb and got it.The fight taking place
September 28, 1811.

The Molineaux who faced Cribb in that second fight
Was a far different warrior than the man Cribb had
Battered a year before.The blow to the head had
Affected hi permanently. The Negro never was the same
Fighter afterwards.Cribb had a rather easy time in
The return battle taking the lead at the start and
Winning in 11 rounds.

In 1812 Molineaux fought several battles with indifferent
Success and a year later was pitted against Jack Carter.
They had only fought one round when the police interfered.

His next big fight was with George Cooper on March 10, 1815
and Cooper whipped him.And this removed Molineaux from
the heights of pugilistic greatness and put into the
"has been" class the American who would have been
the heavyweight champion of the would if it hadn't
been for the accident which he suffered just at the
moment when it seemed that victory was his.

Molineaux sickened a short time after his last
Fight but lingered for some time.Dying in the barracks
of the 77th regiment in Galway, Ireland on August 4, 1818.


Fight details of Tom Molineaux and Tom Cribb are available
On cyberboxingzone



Courtesy of The Ring Born: 1784Died: 1818Induction: 1997 Tom MolineauxTom Molineaux was born a slave but fought his way to freedom and ultimately a shot at the heavyweight title. He began boxing other slaves while plantation owners wagered on the bouts. Finally after defeating a slave from a rival plantation, he was given his freedom and $500. He traveled to New York and then, in 1809, he left for England and began boxing. Molineaux was trained by Bill Richmond, another freed American slave who became a noteable prize fighter in England. Molineaux won two bouts in England and the ease with which he won quickly lined him up for a title shot against British heavyweight champion Tom Crib. In December of 1810, Molineaux challenged Crib in a classic encounter. After some 39 rounds of give and take, Molineaux finally collapsed from exhaustion. The great Pierce Egan, who described the American as "The Tremendous Man of Colour," wrote of the contest: "Molineaux proved himself as courageous a man as ever an adversary contended with ... [Molineaux] astonished everyone, not only by his extraordinary power of hitting and his gigantic strength, but also by his acquaintence with the science, which was far greater than any had given him credit for." The rematch, on September 28, 1811, was equally as exciting. But this time Crib had an easier time retaining his title with an 11th-round knockout. In 1814, he defeated William Fuller in a two-round fight that lasted over an hour. Egan was so impressed by the intense action and stamina of the combatants, that he wrote the fight was, "without parallel." The two Crib fights made Molineaux a celebrity in England. But he fought only sporadically, opting to engage in numerous sparring exhibitions. In 1818, he died in Dublin, Ireland.

Nice read thank you.

glad you liked it mate.I will have a look and see if I can find some new stuff rather than re post material.

robert.snell1 wrote:I posted this and a pile more some time back. Have a few articles on him if you want them.

A great story from the past


10 THE SYRACUSE HERALD: WEDNESDAY EVENING, SEPT. 18, 1918.
James J. Corbett
Molineaux First American Fighter to Invade
England and Achieve Success.

Among the romances of the ring is that which deals with
Tom Molineaux, an American negro who went to Europe
more than a Century ago and gaine a wonderful reputation.

Molineaux was born into slavery on a Virginia plantation
and lived there during his boyhood and young manhood.
He matured at an early age and developed into a most
Powerful fellow. Although only 5 feet 9 inches tall he
possessed, uncanny strength and agility and soon became
recognized as the "King" among the negroes in his own
neighbourhood.

In another part of Virginia lived a giant who occupied
in his own district a position similar to Molineaux
The tales of Molineaux's greatness annoyed him.He wanted to prove
He was the greatest battler in the state. So he begged
Of a few days from his master sought out Molineaux
And challenged him to a battle.

Molineaux obliged - and using the rough and terrible
Style of battling which was the popular American style
Of fighting in those days, almost annihilated his
Adversary.

Molineanx's master was an interested spectator and
He was fond of pugilism. Molineaux's natural fighting
Skill so impressed the plantation owner that he hired
A white man, who knew about the London Prize ring
Tricks to teach the Negro.Molineaux proved to be
An apt pupil. After being tutored for several
Months his master said to him:

"You ought to be a good fighter now if you ever
will be.I am going to give you a try out against
a bigger man than you are.And he's said to be a
greater fighter than you. If you whip him
you can have your freedom: if you don't
you remain a slave."

Molineaux won with ridiculous ease.

A few months later Molineaux a free man
And possessed of a "Stake" which was given
To him by his former master sailed to London.
England scoffed at his claim as a fighter and for
A long time the Negro was, as a challenger, ignored.

Just as his funds were about exhausted the tide of
Fortune swung in his favour. He got a match with an
"unknown" in reality a prominent English fighter
of that era who figured it "easy pickins" to whip
Molineaux and win the $125 purse which a group
Of British sportsmen had hung up.

But the "Unknown" was accorded a rude surprise.
The fight , July 14, 1810, was a victory for the
American Negro.So easily and quickly did he
Triumph that his fame and name were heralded
Throughout England.

Soon afterwards he whipped Tom Blake in 8 rounds and
Met and defeated a half dozen "unknowns" for purses
Ranging from $10-$150. Sums insignificant with present
Day but "big money" in the days of Molineaux.

On December 18, 1810, Molineaux having established
Himself as a really great fighter was given a chance
At Tom Cribb, then champion of England. The men fought
In the open in weather that was bitterly cold. This which
Mitigated against Molineaux's chances.Sleet began to fall
Soon afer the battle started and the Negro, born and
Raised in a warm climate, was chilled to the marrow.

Yet he fought a game and wonderful fight. Battling
Methodically Molineaux gradually beat Cribb to a point
Near exhaustion. From the 24 round to the 30 round it
Seemed an absolute certainty the Negro would win. He
Was in far better condition than his bleeding and
Battered rival. When the 31st began it seemed only a
Question of a few more rounds before Cribb would
Crumple to the turf- and stay there.

But in that round Molineaux after throwing Cribb
Stumbled and pitched headlong against one of the
Stakes. The impact came within an inch of smashing
His skull. His backers later insisted it did cause
A fracture which was never mended by surgical aid.

Molineaux was helped to his feet and resumed fighting
Within the call of time for the 32nd round.But he was
dazed and bewildered. Cribb almost exhausted himself
had no trouble throwing Molineaux. The Negro respondered
to the call of time for the 33rd round reeling and
staggering like a drunken man.

Cribb coming out from his corner needed only to bump
Into Molineaux to send him tottering to the earth.The
Negro made two feeble efforts to rise then fell back
And moaned "I can fight no more"

Some months later Molineaux asked for a return match
With Cribb and got it.The fight taking place
September 28, 1811.

The Molineaux who faced Cribb in that second fight
Was a far different warrior than the man Cribb had
Battered a year before.The blow to the head had
Affected hi permanently. The Negro never was the same
Fighter afterwards.Cribb had a rather easy time in
The return battle taking the lead at the start and
Winning in 11 rounds.

In 1812 Molineaux fought several battles with indifferent
Success and a year later was pitted against Jack Carter.
They had only fought one round when the police interfered.

His next big fight was with George Cooper on March 10, 1815
and Cooper whipped him.And this removed Molineaux from
the heights of pugilistic greatness and put into the
"has been" class the American who would have been
the heavyweight champion of the would if it hadn't
been for the accident which he suffered just at the
moment when it seemed that victory was his.

Molineaux sickened a short time after his last
Fight but lingered for some time.Dying in the barracks
of the 77th regiment in Galway, Ireland on August 4, 1818.


Fight details of Tom Molineaux and Tom Cribb are available
On cyberboxingzone



Courtesy of The Ring Born: 1784Died: 1818Induction: 1997 Tom MolineauxTom Molineaux was born a slave but fought his way to freedom and ultimately a shot at the heavyweight title. He began boxing other slaves while plantation owners wagered on the bouts. Finally after defeating a slave from a rival plantation, he was given his freedom and $500. He traveled to New York and then, in 1809, he left for England and began boxing. Molineaux was trained by Bill Richmond, another freed American slave who became a noteable prize fighter in England. Molineaux won two bouts in England and the ease with which he won quickly lined him up for a title shot against British heavyweight champion Tom Crib. In December of 1810, Molineaux challenged Crib in a classic encounter. After some 39 rounds of give and take, Molineaux finally collapsed from exhaustion. The great Pierce Egan, who described the American as "The Tremendous Man of Colour," wrote of the contest: "Molineaux proved himself as courageous a man as ever an adversary contended with ... [Molineaux] astonished everyone, not only by his extraordinary power of hitting and his gigantic strength, but also by his acquaintence with the science, which was far greater than any had given him credit for." The rematch, on September 28, 1811, was equally as exciting. But this time Crib had an easier time retaining his title with an 11th-round knockout. In 1814, he defeated William Fuller in a two-round fight that lasted over an hour. Egan was so impressed by the intense action and stamina of the combatants, that he wrote the fight was, "without parallel." The two Crib fights made Molineaux a celebrity in England. But he fought only sporadically, opting to engage in numerous sparring exhibitions. In 1818, he died in Dublin, Ireland.

great post mr. snell

At one time, I had written excerpted versions of all the bareknuckle title fights from Pugilistica.

Here's my round-by-round take on Tom Molineaux-Tom Cribb I:
12/18/1910 Tom Cribb (199) W 40rds Tom Molineaux (198) 55 minutes
Copthall Common, Sussex, England
10,000 fans watched fight in outdoor ring on a cold, rainy day.

In the 1st, Molineaux landed the first hit, a right-handed body blow to Cribb’s left side. Cribb returned smartly with a right and a left to the head and then a body blow. In the 2nd, there was a furious rally with heavy exchanges. Cribb won the exchange with straight blows, and Molineaux landed blows that were mostly parried. Molineaux gained first blood by causing a cut on Cribb’s lip, but Cribb won the round. In the 3rd, Cribb landed a left on Molineaux’s head at arm’s length with such tremendous force that Molineaux was knocked down. The 5th was an excellent round, with good fighting on both sides. Molineaux tried to use his strength on Cribb, while Cribb tried to prevent this by landing repeated blows to Molineaux’s head. In the 6th, Molineaux commenced furiously. Cribb recovered and brought down Molineaux with a blow. In the 7th, Molineaux rushed in and Cribb landed a violent blow on his forehead, causing blood. In the 8th, Cribb reverted to his normal retreating style and a desperate rally ensued. Molineaux fell, but Cribb appeared weaker from his exertions. In the 9th, Cribb started and Molineaux followed courageously. Molineaux put in a severe hit and Cribb fell. By the 10th, both fighters heads and faces were disfigured. Molineaux displayed the strength advantage. Molineaux and Cribb rallied for a full two minutes, trading hits, to the disadvantage of Cribb. Cribb however brought down Molineaux. As the fight continued, the men continued to show good science and land strong blows with both trading the advantage. In the 23rd, Cribb brought down Molineaux for the first time in many rounds. In the 28th round, after both fighters went to their corners, Cribb was so exhausted that he could hardly rise at the call of “Time,” which was called loudly by an umpire. Joe Ward, his second, occupied the attention of Molineaux’s seconds and managed to prolong the period enough for Cribb to recover a little. In the 29th, Cribb knocked Molineaux down after Molineaux missed a throw. In the 30th, Cribb got the advantage, rallied, and took the fight to Molineaux. In the 31st, Molineaux threw Cribb but in the struggle fell over and landed on his head. His second, Bill Richmond, prompted him to continue hoping Cribb would be exhausted. In the 33rd, Molineaux fell by an effort to keep his legs. Cribb’s handlers called this falling without a blow, and a squabble would have ensued, had Molineaux not exclaimed, “Me can fight no more!” Cribb was elated, but so tired he could not do his usual victory somersault. SUMMARY: Molineaux drew first blood in the 2nd round, and was clearly the harder puncher of the two. Cribb was relentless and kept up a continual body attack. Molineaux dropped the champion in the 28th round, and Cribb failed to beat the 30 second count. But Cribb's second accused the black fighter of hardening his punch with bullets in his hand. While the umpires searched for the nonexistent bullets, Cribb revived and the match continued. A couple of rounds later, Molineaux began to shiver from the cold and show signs of exhaustion and was also dazed by hitting his head on a ring post. In the 33rd round he collapsed to the ground, looked up at his second, Bill Richmond, and said, "Me can fight no more!" He then fell into unconsciousness and had to be carried from the ring.

I believe a revisionist dramatic account of the Molineaux-Cribb fights was shown on UK TV quite recently. It was produced from the POV of Richmond.

In his fighting days Richmond had had the better of Cribb in a contest until the larger man's strength began to show late on. Richmond was beaten and had to admit that he would never be big enough to defeat Cribb. Now with Molineaux under his guidance, a man more of a physical match to Cribb, Richmond felt he could have a champion on his hands.

The drama-documentary suggested that Cribb's handlers, and people in the crowd actually intervened when it appeared that Molineaux was about to win and that some injury was purposely inflcited upon Molineaux.

In the the rematch Richmond wrote to Cribb (or his handlers, cannot remember which) and asked for a guarantee that there would be no such interference in the second fight.

Cribb trained like never before whilst Molineaux spent his evenings drinking, gambling and womanising in London. He simply was not in good shape for the rematch and Cribb won quite comfortably. Richmond was very disappointed in Molineaux and his poor preparation and wanted nothing more to do with him.

This was how the drama documentary showed the story fo the fight.

Ezzard wrote:I believe a revisionist dramatic account of the Molineaux-Cribb fights was shown on UK TV quite recently. It was produced from the POV of Richmond.

In his fighting days Richmond had had the better of Cribb in a contest until the larger man's strength began to show late on. Richmond was beaten and had to admit that he would never be big enough to defeat Cribb. Now with Molineaux under his guidance, a man more of a physical match to Cribb, Richmond felt he could have a champion on his hands.

The drama-documentary suggested that Cribb's handlers, and people in the crowd actually intervened when it appeared that Molineaux was about to win and that some injury was purposely inflcited upon Molineaux.

In the the rematch Richmond wrote to Cribb (or his handlers, cannot remember which) and asked for a guarantee that there would be no such interference in the second fight.

Cribb trained like never before whilst Molineaux spent his evenings drinking, gambling and womanising in London. He simply was not in good shape for the rematch and Cribb won quite comfortably. Richmond was very disappointed in Molineaux and his poor preparation and wanted nothing more to do with him.

This was how the drama documentary showed the story fo the fight.

i missed that what channel etc was it shown on please

robert.snell1 wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I believe a revisionist dramatic account of the Molineaux-Cribb fights was shown on UK TV quite recently. It was produced from the POV of Richmond.

In his fighting days Richmond had had the better of Cribb in a contest until the larger man's strength began to show late on. Richmond was beaten and had to admit that he would never be big enough to defeat Cribb. Now with Molineaux under his guidance, a man more of a physical match to Cribb, Richmond felt he could have a champion on his hands.

The drama-documentary suggested that Cribb's handlers, and people in the crowd actually intervened when it appeared that Molineaux was about to win and that some injury was purposely inflcited upon Molineaux.

In the the rematch Richmond wrote to Cribb (or his handlers, cannot remember which) and asked for a guarantee that there would be no such interference in the second fight.

Cribb trained like never before whilst Molineaux spent his evenings drinking, gambling and womanising in London. He simply was not in good shape for the rematch and Cribb won quite comfortably. Richmond was very disappointed in Molineaux and his poor preparation and wanted nothing more to do with him.

This was how the drama documentary showed the story fo the fight.

i missed that what channel etc was it shown on please

I nearly missed it myself. I happened to switch it on by chance. I can't rememebr the name of the show but I'll try and dig around. It was a good quality piece and very interesting. I'll try and get back to you.

thanks i will really appreciate that as I check the papers for such things and a bit sad i did not see that one...what a pain

robert.snell1 wrote:thanks i will really appreciate that as I check the papers for such things and a bit sad i did not see that one...what a pain

Hi Rob

Going from memory it was Channel 4 but I shall check my tape but I am sure it was called something like The Georgian Underground Of Boxing.

It was very good.

Another one of Robs threads about Tom.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23287

thanks for finding that thread it went down well and just shows how the interest in such people keeps popping up on the forum

Apologies

Can't remember the actual name of the show but it was C4. It was a part of their season on "Georgian Underworld"

This is the best link I have found.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi ... ty_02.html

I hope they repeat it soon

Ezzard

thanks, i think that its the film my son mentioned to me as it happens

robert.snell1 wrote:thanks i will really appreciate that as I check the papers for such things and a bit sad i did not see that one...what a pain

It was first shown on C4 at 9pm on Thursday 1st May 2003.