BoxRec

I remember when I was watching a countdown to Tyson-Holyfield (I) in 1996, there was a short segment featuring Tyson and Holyfield ripping into each other in sparring in the Trials for the '84 Olympics. The sparring was cut short because they were going too hard at each other, with Holyfield (a light heavyweight) trying to prove something against Tyson. I always remembered that segment and easily predicted for Holyfield to upset Tyson in the first fight because of it. Recently, I was thinking about it and I tried to find it but all I can find is reference of it. It was a short segment featured on a preview/countdown. Anyone remember this and know where I can get it?

Here is a news story about it if anyone wants to check it out: http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-96/11-09-96/c07sp146.htm

And another with Kevin Rooney commenting on it: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_forum ... _next=next

Another telling point during the trials (or the olympic comp, can't remember now) - the US guys were playing pool with 'the winner stays on' rule. Tyson lost and it was Holyfield's turn. Tyson refused. After some tense moments and a staredown Tyson handed over the pool cue

bollox wrote:Another telling point during the trials (or the olympic comp, can't remember now) - the US guys were playing pool with 'the winner stays on' rule. Tyson lost and it was Holyfield's turn. Tyson refused. After some tense moments and a staredown Tyson handed over the pool cue

Just shows what a jerk he was (and by most account, still is)! Tyson was still robbed by the amateur system in the Trials, though, if I recall correctly. Didn't he drop Henry Tillman at least twice before losing on points?

Can't remember the circumstances at the trials re: the Tyson and Tillman

Although I do know that Tyson was supposed to fight at superheavy but was forced? to do down to heavy to accommodate Tyrell Biggs at superheavy

I remember Holyfield saying (after Holy-Tyson I) that he always knew he would beat Tyson because of those sparring sessions. He said he knew he had the style to beat Tyson.

Does no one remember what Holyfield-Tyson I preview this footage was on? Anyone know someone who might know?

holy forgot to beat tyson when tyson still was a fighter but what i loved more in holy was Bowe beating him by knockout.

chiricahua wrote:holy forgot to beat tyson when tyson still was a fighter but what i loved more in holy was Bowe beating him by knockout.

I guess it's better to get KO'd by a top rated former heavyweight champion like Bowe, who was 37-1, rather than Kevin McBride (who was KO'd by Louis Monaco of all people). Who got KO'd by McBride again?

evndrbsn wrote:

chiricahua wrote:holy forgot to beat tyson when tyson still was a fighter but what i loved more in holy was Bowe beating him by knockout.

I guess it's better to get KO'd by a top rated former heavyweight champion like Bowe, who was 37-1, rather than Kevin McBride (who was KO'd by Louis Monaco of all people). Who got KO'd by McBride again?

how many defeats has holy?
Let me see 8 Tyson has 6.
tyson 44 ko holy-25ko
tyson-50 wins holy-38 wins and 2 draws and tyson is younger than holy 3 years.
the difference is too big.

chiricahua wrote:

evndrbsn wrote:

chiricahua wrote:holy forgot to beat tyson when tyson still was a fighter but what i loved more in holy was Bowe beating him by knockout.

I guess it's better to get KO'd by a top rated former heavyweight champion like Bowe, who was 37-1, rather than Kevin McBride (who was KO'd by Louis Monaco of all people). Who got KO'd by McBride again?

how many defeats has holy?
Let me see 8 Tyson has 6.
tyson 44 ko holy-25ko
tyson-50 wins holy-38 wins and 2 draws and tyson is younger than holy 3 years.
the difference is too big.

OK, lets break those stats down then. Holyfield lost two fights to Bowe (one by TKO in 8th), a disputable loss to Michael Moorer, a close loss to Lennox Lewis in rematch at age 37 (that many people thought was a draw; likewise, the first fight with Lewis should be a loss), went 1-1-1 with current WBA champ John Ruiz at ages 38-39, lost to current IBF champ Chris Byrd at age 40, corner threw in towel in 9th in loss to top rated James Toney at age 40 (41st birthday was a few days later), and lost a wide decision to Larry Donald at age 42 (Donald just got robbed by Nicolay Valuev, who gets a WBA title shot out of it).

Now Tyson. Got KO'd in a fight by china chinned Buster Douglas in his PRIME, beaten twice by the aformentioned Holyfield (once by TKO), brutally KO'd by Lennox Lewis in a whitewish at age 35 (almost 36, over a year younger than the Holyfield that should have drawn with Lewis), KO'd in 4 by another china chinned heavyweight in Danny Williams at age 38, and quit against Kevin McBride at almost age 39 (McBride was stopped by feather fisted Axel Schulz and two journeymen in Louis Monaco and Michael Murray).

For KO's, note that Holyfield was moving up a division from Cruiserweight to Heavyweight. Holyfield was 25-0 (21 KOs) before facing George Foreman. That included seven world title fights (six at cruiserweight, one at heavyweight). He had already faced a plethora of competition. Tyson at 25-0 (23 KOs) just had his biggest victory over Marvis Frazier, who had already been stopped in one round by Larry Holmes three years prior. His best competition to date besides Frazier was James Tillis, Mitch Green, and Jesse Ferguson. How did that James Tillis fight go? Oh yeah, he barely won (Holyfield stopped Tillis two years later in his heavyweight debut). Green, while tough, never had a notable victory and Jesse Ferguson became a trialhorse for upcoming contenders.

You mention that Tyson is 3 years younger than Holyfield. Notice what Holyfield was doing at Tyson's age. Holyfield at age 35: Held WBA/IBF Titles. Tyson at age 35: Taking a nap on the canvas after getting KO'd by Lennox Lewis. Holyfield at age 39: Drew with John Ruiz in a fight that ringside observers favored him 13-2-1. Tyson at age 39: Quit against Kevin McBride. Tyson was knocked out twice by age 30. Holyfield wasn't stopped until age 33 against Riddick Bowe, who was a much bigger puncher than Buster Douglas or Evander Holyfield.

This post is supposed to be about Holyfield and Tyson sparring during the 1984 Olympic Trials, anyway. Which was another point that Holyfield showed he was unafraid of Tyson and willing to swap leather. How many other fighters that were not afraid of Tyson beat him again?

A great punch does not make a great fighter. An article that sums up the Tyson myth can be found here: http://www.BS.com/?m=show&id=2233

thank you for the article,but saying tyson was in his prime against douglas isn t true and you know it tyson only was a great fighter using Cus d Amato fighting style and between 85-88 and he spent 3 years in prison and Tyson won by ko against Tillman or Holmes and holy 2 years later couldn t knockout Holmes or tillman by knockout.
Lewis said holy was the master of headbuts and he cut tyson in the 2 fights with headbutts do you think that is a clean fighter? I don t think so.
Tyson for Holy always was an obsession there are always guys insulting tyson but in the end all of them want to beat tyson lewis needed tyson for legitimate his career not holy.
However the full responsible of this is Tyson because Tyson betrayed kevin Rooney Cus d Amato style and the discipline necessary for beat holy and lewis and today everybody would say Tyson and Ali were the 2 best of all time.

chiricahua wrote:thank you for the article,but saying tyson was in his prime against douglas isn t true and you know it tyson only was a great fighter using Cus d Amato fighting style and between 85-88 and he spent 3 years in prison and Tyson won by ko against Tillman or Holmes and holy 2 years later couldn t knockout Holmes or tillman by knockout.
Lewis said holy was the master of headbuts and he cut tyson in the 2 fights with headbutts do you think that is a clean fighter? I don t think so.
Tyson for Holy always was an obsession there are always guys insulting tyson but in the end all of them want to beat tyson lewis needed tyson for legitimate his career not holy.
However the full responsible of this is Tyson because Tyson betrayed kevin Rooney Cus d Amato style and the discipline necessary for beat holy and lewis and today everybody would say Tyson and Ali were the 2 best of all time.

The mark of a great fighter is being able to adapt. When Tyson was not able to adapt after Cus, that said everything about Tyson. While Cus would have worked out better in the corner, the fighter himself needs to know what to do in the ring. No one can fight for him. Also, many people argue that Tyson was indeed in shape and in his prime for the Douglas fight. He came in at a fit 220.5 lbs and looked chiseled. Watch the first couple rounds for example. He was moving his head and looking just like he did in every other fight. The difference is that unlike other Tyson opponents, Douglas did not fold for an easy way out. He fought Tyson. Tyson was beaten by the better fighter that night.

I agree that Holyfield bent the rules to his liking with the use of his head. Remember the old saying, "it is not illegal unless you get caught." Holyfield was a master of bending the rules. Headbutt or no though, he would defeat Tyson.

evndrbsn wrote:

chiricahua wrote:thank you for the article,but saying tyson was in his prime against douglas isn t true and you know it tyson only was a great fighter using Cus d Amato fighting style and between 85-88 and he spent 3 years in prison and Tyson won by ko against Tillman or Holmes and holy 2 years later couldn t knockout Holmes or tillman by knockout.
Lewis said holy was the master of headbuts and he cut tyson in the 2 fights with headbutts do you think that is a clean fighter? I don t think so.
Tyson for Holy always was an obsession there are always guys insulting tyson but in the end all of them want to beat tyson lewis needed tyson for legitimate his career not holy.
However the full responsible of this is Tyson because Tyson betrayed kevin Rooney Cus d Amato style and the discipline necessary for beat holy and lewis and today everybody would say Tyson and Ali were the 2 best of all time.

The mark of a great fighter is being able to adapt. When Tyson was not able to adapt after Cus, that said everything about Tyson. While Cus would have worked out better in the corner, the fighter himself needs to know what to do in the ring. No one can fight for him. Also, many people argue that Tyson was indeed in shape and in his prime for the Douglas fight. He came in at a fit 220.5 lbs and looked chiseled. Watch the first couple rounds for example. He was moving his head and looking just like he did in every other fight. The difference is that unlike other Tyson opponents, Douglas did not fold for an easy way out. He fought Tyson. Tyson was beaten by the better fighter that night.

I agree that Holyfield bent the rules to his liking with the use of his head. Remember the old saying, "it is not illegal unless you get caught." Holyfield was a master of bending the rules. Headbutt or no though, he would defeat Tyson.

well he landed nothin in there. You can move your head all night by instinct and that what it was.. an instinct but you can't win fights in the gymn. Holy was a dirty bitch but even in his prime. Forman told that he was the dirtyer fighter he ever fought and BigGuy fought over 70. Cuz da mato style was a system not a single detail(moving head).

And bending rules is holding, pushing head down and so on .. Headbutt is a serious "Breaking the rules". All those fights should have been "NC".. Holy beat Tyson though cose he was not real Tyson he fought. You must be a Holy fan .. hey I like the guy and he was really great .. who in my oppinion could have beat many of the old greats but you can't say he BEAT Tyson.

cultus wrote: And bending rules is holding, pushing head down and so on .. Headbutt is a serious "Breaking the rules". All those fights should have been "NC".. Holy beat Tyson though cose he was not real Tyson he fought. You must be a Holy fan .. hey I like the guy and he was really great .. who in my oppinion could have beat many of the old greats but you can't say he BEAT Tyson.

The only blatant headbutt I remember in the entire Holyfield-Tyson series was in the first one and it was issued by Tyson. Remember round 7, that huge clash of heads that buckles Tyson's legs? Yep, that was Tyson, who even admitted afterwards he did it to try to get a point (I'm guessing more of a DQ since a point would mean little at this point) from Holyfield. The late Mitch Halpern caught it and rightfully didn't warn Holyfield.

How old was Tyson when Douglas crushed his face in? 24?

Professor X wrote:How old was Tyson when Douglas crushed his face in? 24?

Just about. 4 months later, he would be 25. Holyfield at 25 (2 months after, to be exact) was winning the WBA cruiserweight title from Dwight Muhammad Qawi at basically the same age Tyson was getting KO'd. He definitely wasn't green at that time and he definitely wasn't past his prime.

Right, evndrbsn. And how old was Holyfield when he lost that decision (his first loss) to Bowe in '92? 29 or 30?

He was certainly 30 or 31 for the rematch, his best days, physically, clearly behind him...and anybody that picked Bowe in the rematch was one dumb SOB BTW.