BoxRec

Two huge old timers with a punch and a few boxing skills how would this pan out in the battle of the giants.

From what I've seen Willard was the superior boxer by quite a way. Jess had a good jab and decent footwork and was pretty nimble for such a big man. I think he carried a fair dig as well so he'd probably ko Primo in about 10 rounds....

It is so hard to get serious about Carnera, I think that the History revisionists are trying to ascribe some kind of credibility that he posilutely, absotively, does not deserve. Carnera Vs TBA and I'm going with TBA. Carnera Vs DOA......and I have to think about that one.

From what I've seen of Carnera he actually had a pretty decent jab and you could see that he had some strength etc. What I'm saying is I don't think he was as inept as some would say. He was very slow and muscel bound and not a natural fighter.
One thing I'd say for Primo though is he had a lot of heart, the way he kept getting up against Baer and Louis and took shellackings in his last couple of bouts shows that.

I understand what your saying Silkov, but more than anyone who has ever held the top spot he was the "accidental" or "intentional" champion. Some of the problems surrounding him may not have been about him, seems from what I read he may not have been on the "inside" of the frauds. So as a man he may well have been a great person. But he did not deserve to have been playing with the big boys.

Sharkey on the other hand seemed to be a good fighter who was just corrupt. It seems that he likely was on the inside of a few "makefights". Maybe there is a genuine justice that quite possibly the most corrupt fighter actually got truly KO'd by possibly the most inept.

Proof of a deity?

BoxBuzz wrote:I understand what your saying Silkov, but more than anyone who has ever held the top spot he was the "accidental" or "intentional" champion. Some of the problems surrounding him may not have been about him, seems from what I read he may not have been on the "inside" of the frauds. So as a man he may well have been a great person. But he did not deserve to have been playing with the big boys.

Sharkey on the other hand seemed to be a good fighter who was just corrupt. It seems that he likely was on the inside of a few "makefights". Maybe there is a genuine justice that quite possibly the most corrupt fighter actually got truly KO'd by possibly the most inept.

Proof of a deity?

Sharkey always denied taking a dive and was very bitter about it. I personally can't belive anyone would take a dive to lose the world heavyweight title... what could he gain from that?.... he could make far more money as a champ. I actually think Primo probably koed Sharkey genuinely... he ducked into an uppercut, which is always dodgey.

I'm one of the beleivers that Carnera did actually KO him no doubt. I also think it was a fluke but it did happen.

Grimm wrote:Two huge old timers with a punch and a few boxing skills how would this pan out in the battle of the giants.

Well Grimm,
Since you are apparently a young scholar on the sport,I will tell you my thoughts.In this battle between two lumbering,unskilled,behemoths,I think that Willard,would probably win.He seemed to have more fighting desire,not necessarily more heart,because I think for both of them to have the lack of skills,they both displayed heart.I think Primo was more of a gentle giant,where Willard,had more of a desire to be a fighter,just not the skills needed.BUT,I think that our good friend,ANTHONY,would K.O. both of them,
zuru

..as for carnera not being in on the fraud....he came into a newspaper office when he was a wrestler and showed his hands and said "with these big hands i killed a man....that i can never forget". he was referring of course to ernie shaff....who did get killed in his fight with carnera..although most boxing folks think shaff was badly damaged from his fight with max baer.

whatever....i go along with most boxing historians (i am not claiming to be one, but who am i to argue with so many who say i am?) in believing he didn't know his fights were fixed.


i still think sharkey tanked it. went right after carnera's fist with his chin......but...we'll never know for sure, will we?

the reasons why a heavyweight champion....specifically sharkey... would throw a fight while defending the title are ...interesting....virtually subject for a small book....but that's for a different time and place.

zuru wrote:

Grimm wrote:Two huge old timers with a punch and a few boxing skills how would this pan out in the battle of the giants.

Well Grimm,
Since you are apparently a young scholar on the sport,I will tell you my thoughts.In this battle between two lumbering,unskilled,behemoths,I think that Willard,would probably win.He seemed to have more fighting desire,not necessarily more heart,because I think for both of them to have the lack of skills,they both displayed heart.I think Primo was more of a gentle giant,where Willard,had more of a desire to be a fighter,just not the skills needed.BUT,I think that our good friend,ANTHONY,would K.O. both of them,
zuru

Willard had pretty good boxing skills... a good jab and good footwork for his size... its inaccurate to say he was unskilled. Even Primo was not totally unskilled.....

silkov wrote:

zuru wrote:

Grimm wrote:Two huge old timers with a punch and a few boxing skills how would this pan out in the battle of the giants.

Well Grimm,
Since you are apparently a young scholar on the sport,I will tell you my thoughts.In this battle between two lumbering,unskilled,behemoths,I think that Willard,would probably win.He seemed to have more fighting desire,not necessarily more heart,because I think for both of them to have the lack of skills,they both displayed heart.I think Primo was more of a gentle giant,where Willard,had more of a desire to be a fighter,just not the skills needed.BUT,I think that our good friend,ANTHONY,would K.O. both of them,
zuru

Willard had pretty good boxing skills... a good jab and good footwork for his size... its inaccurate to say he was unskilled. Even Primo was not totally unskilled.....

I guess I agree,what I should have said,was"due to their lack of an abundance of skills"?You know what I mean Silkov.They had limited skills,not completely lacking. ,
zuru

zuru wrote:

silkov wrote:

zuru wrote: Well Grimm,
Since you are apparently a young scholar on the sport,I will tell you my thoughts.In this battle between two lumbering,unskilled,behemoths,I think that Willard,would probably win.He seemed to have more fighting desire,not necessarily more heart,because I think for both of them to have the lack of skills,they both displayed heart.I think Primo was more of a gentle giant,where Willard,had more of a desire to be a fighter,just not the skills needed.BUT,I think that our good friend,ANTHONY,would K.O. both of them,
zuru

Willard had pretty good boxing skills... a good jab and good footwork for his size... its inaccurate to say he was unskilled. Even Primo was not totally unskilled.....

I guess I agree,what I should have said,was"due to their lack of an abundance of skills"?You know what I mean Silkov.They had limited skills,not completely lacking. ,
zuru

I agree that Willard would have come out on top.

Jaclem you just put a new spin on the sharkey KO for me. If Jack placed himself in a spot to take a full shot and it did KO him then he can claim he was honestly KO"d but it still is fixed. Never really thought of it but thats a scenario I can buy quite easily.

I'm not exactly up on which fights were "allegedly" fixed for Carnera. Obviously the Sharkey fight is one, and I've heard that the Godfrey fight and the Chevalier fight were fixed as well. Other than that I really am not sure which of his fights are considered fixed or not.

If Carnera's fights against Uzcudun and Loughran weren't fixed, I'd actually be rather impressed with his ability to defeat those two by decision. Of course, from what I've seen of Carnera, I don't think there's a chance in hell he could have outboxed either of them.

If he somehow managed to though, I think he should get at least more of a chance in a fight with Willard.

I'm going with Carnera here. No one knows for sure how many of his fights were fixed, but there isn't any evidence any were against top opponents. Most were against journeyman who took a dive earlier than they would have been knocked out.
His win over Loughran was simply because Loughran didn't have eough power to hurt him and has significant height and reach disadvantages.
If a fight is thrown, its not going to by a 15 round decision.
The KO over Sharkey was legit, although he was probably lucky.
If Carnera was a bad some people think, he wouldn't have lasted 10 rounds against Baer and 6 against Louis.
Willard was slow,clumsy, easy too hit and really only had decent power. I don't agree at all that he had good footwork or a good jab.
Carnera was also slow and clumsy, but he had better power, and actually had a good jab.
Neither one of these guys are an all-time great, but Carnera was the better of the two.