BoxRec

How do you guys think a prime Joe C would have done against prime Watson, Benn, Eubank and Collins? Do you think he'd be well up there with them? Also, out of all these guys who do you think was best?

I might be slightly biased here being Irish but I think I'd say Collins. He beat a prime Eubank twice, twice stopped (a shot) Benn and gave a prime McCallum a good fight (despite the scorecards). It's a shame Collins never got to fight Joe C before he had to retire.

I think I would rank these guys as follows:

1 Collins - Beat Eubank and Benn twice. Competitive with prime McCallum after only 16 fights.
2 Joe C - Beat a Eubank who only lost to Collins, but never really tested and past his prime now so will be difficult to tell how good he was.
3 Eubank - Beat Watson twice and Benn twice.
4 Watson - Unlucky never to win a world title and two very close defeats v Eubank. Stopped Benn but stopped by McCallum just after he outpointed Collins.
5 Benn - McClellan fight his best but too weak chinned and stopped by Eubank, Watson and Collins. Held the WBC title - only one of these fighters to hold one of the big three (WBC, WBA, IBF) belts.

personally while I like Steve, a solid and dependable hard man with a rock like iron and will to match, he caught benn and Eubank at the right time, you need to make certianly with Nigel benn, a definite line between pre and post mclellan. Prime Benn for me was 92- To the G man fight.

We know he beat Eubank in the the drawn fight and his performance vs Mc was nothing short of brutal and in fact that fight ruined Nigel. So no Collins wasnt better than Benn for my money.


A prime Benn for me was the best of the bunch, not in terms of skill it just sheer ferocity and desire. A prime benn woudl have scared the shit out of calaghe before he even got in the ring, JC would have pissed himself and injured his back no doubt..


Eubank woudl have been too cute and Collins too hard.

Watson we will never really know as he never fully reached his peak.

but i doubt calzaghe would have beaten any of them in my mind.


cvoudl be rose tinted specs of course, but thats the way i like to remember it.

I just feel that Benn had the heart but not the chin and that's what puts him down my ranking. Remember, it was during what you called his prime where he was stopped by both Watson and Eubank so although he was ferocious, the records show that he was unable to beat either of these guys. I also thought he narrowly won the second fight with Eubank, but I know a lot of other people thought the draw was fair. I'm not sure any of the others would have beaten McClellan and it was a great result for Benn. Maybe I am ranking Joe C a bit too high considering his opponents were far below the level of what the other four were in with.

Actually sorry, the Watson and Eubank losses were in 89/90. And even when Benn was fighting the G-man in 95, a lot of people considered him to be well past his prime and apart from the fight against Eubank which was a draw, he didn't really fight any other top fighters in 92-95.

Just found some old (controversial) Calzaghe mystical match ups on BBC from 2002....

Calzaghe v Collins

"Collins is perhaps the least heralded but most successful of the middleweights of the early '90s, boasting win doubles over both Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn.
The Celtic Warrior fought hard to win a place at the top table, taking the toughest challenges away from home against the likes of Mike McCallum and Sumbu Kalambay.
Never a flashy fighter, Collins was durable, in your face and punishing with his blows.
When given his chance against Chris Eubank in '95, Collins, though the WBO middleweight champion, was a stand-in for Ray Close and was not expected to trouble the long-reigning super-middleweight king.
The Irishman managed to psyche out Eubank from the start, though, with claims that he had been hypnotised and was incapable of losing!
In the fight, his hard-working approach was too much for the showboating Eubank, and the same proved true in the re-match.
If Collins never ducked a foe in his early career, there is little doubt that he stepped from Calzaghe's bludgeoning path at the end.
An ageing Collins would surely not have lived with the fast, talented, powerful and determined youngster from Wales.
But what would have happened if the two fighters had met in their prime?
Collins showed the power and ability to stop the likes of Nigel Benn, but his skill was in sapping his opponents' strength and will to resist.
Calzaghe is the superior boxer of the two, and has also shown the conditioning and desire to go the distance against the toughest challenges.
The Welshman went the full 12 for victories over quality opposition like Eubank and Charles Brewer, and even at the nadir of his form against Robin Reid he showed the sheer willpower to claim a points win.
Collins would not possess the firepower to halt Calzaghe, and a points win for the man from Newbridge is the only result".

Calzaghe V Watson

Everyone knows the current plight of Michael Watson, but the heroics of his fightback from injury were matched by the courage he displayed in the ring.
Watson was the quiet man compared to the flamboyance of the men he fought alongside so memorably, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank.
He was the ultimate professional, a student of the game who knew his boxing history, analysed the styles of the greats and kept himself in peak physical condition.
No-one fancied his chances in the clash with Nigel Benn; the Dark Destroyer was supposed to blast Watson out of the ring.
But Watson surprised everyone with his peek-a-boo style, frustrated a flailing Benn for six rounds before taking out the exhausted Commonwealth champion.
He was again the underdog in the two Eubank fights. Watson's skill and work-rate saw him dominate the first encounter, before he was robbed by a criminal decision on the scorecards.
The second fight followed a similar pattern as he overwhelmed Eubank, dropping him in the 11th, only for the Brighton man to rise from the canvas with that fateful uppercut to Watson's jaw.
A clash between Joe Calzaghe and the Michael Watson who defeated Nigel Benn would be lapped up by the boxing connoisseur.
The two stylists would fight out an intriguing tactical battle, whilst never neglecting to get the hard work done on the inside.
Of all Calzaghe's opponents, perhaps Richie Woodhall is the nearest in style to Watson and an analysis of this fight could suggest the likely outcome of Calzaghe-Watson.
Woodhall competed for 10 high-class rounds against the Welshman, but over the course of the 30 minutes Calzaghe's heavier punching dragged the fight more and more his way until the challenger could take no more.
Watson was a class above Woodhall, but a similar pattern could be expected against Calzaghe. The Welshman takes it in the 10th.

Calzaghe V Benn

Whatever the attractions of Graham, Watson, Collins and Eubank, this would be the one Calzaghe's supporters would like to see!
The Dark Destroyer could draw the fans like no other. His uncompromising, all-action style often proved as dangerous to himself as to his opponents, but it absolutely guaranteed an electrifying fight.
Benn's furious punching could take out even the highest class of opposition.
Who can forget the stunning single round against Iran Barkley, or the jaw-dropping, tragical intensity of the Gerald McClellan fight?
Such ferocity can never be discounted, but the suspicion has to be that Calzaghe would hold too much boxing nous for the Ilford swinger.
Michael Watson (and even Nicky Piper) outboxed Benn, whilst Chris Eubank and Steve Collins had the chins to trade with him and withstand his assaults.
Calzaghe has the skills and the staying power.
He would weather a furious Benn opening, trade with the Dark Destroyer, wear him down with his superior boxing and stop the fight in the sixth.

Calzaghe v Eubank

Calzaghe claimed his WBO super middleweight title in a classic clash with Eubank back in October 1997.
After Calzaghe floored the Brighton bruiser in the first round, an all-action fight ensued where the Welshman rattled up the points and threw in the heavy bombs, but had his own chin tested by Eubank's powerful volleys.
Eubank had always styled himself as 'Simply the Best,' and his fans would argue that he took the Calzaghe fight at short notice and that he was - in any case - past his peak.
However, the monocled mauler's performance on the night, and his subsequent displays in two epic brawls with Carl Thompson, suggest he still had plenty in the tank.
Whatever his claims to being a boxing master, Eubank's success had been built on a chin of granite and fists of stone.
In his fights with Nigel Benn and Michael Watson, Eubank had rarely avoided their blows - he was simply able to absorb the punishment before replying with his own destructive pummelling.
The last thing to leave a boxer is his punch, and Calzaghe proved he was able to take the best that Eubank could throw.
The Welshman also proved he was the superior boxer, and if the two had met at their respective peaks the result would have been the same - a superb fight, but a comfortable points victory to Calzaghe.

Calzaghe v Herol Graham

If Calzaghe came on the scene too late for the big-money middleweight clashes, Herol 'Bomber' Graham peaked just a few years too soon.
A boxer of consummate skill, the Sheffield southpaw came from the same Brendan Ingle stable as Naseem Hamed, and Graham's style had a formative influence on the Prince.
Graham's elusiveness left opponents struggling to lay a glove on him, whilst his punching accuracy saw the points rattle up on the judges' scorecards.
Unfortunately his power did not match his accuracy, and the prospect of an awkward, light-punching boxer did little to attract the American audience.
At his peak, Graham would have proved an intriguing challenger to the likes of Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and Thomas Hearns, but the Bomber was never able to secure the big fights.
Graham would claim the early rounds of a fight with Calzaghe as the Welshman would struggle to come to terms with the man Mike McCallum described as his most awkward opponent.
Calzaghe has proved his boxing skills through a distinguished career as an amateur and professional, though, and would eventually get to grips with the Bomber.
In the later rounds, Calzaghe's heavier punches would take their toll to swing the judges' cards back to the man from Newbridge.
A tough night's work for Calzaghe, but he emerges with the victory.

Bomber could have outscored them all in his prime.

Anyone who thinks a 2002-3 Calzaghe isn't competitive even in this elite company is allowing his lack of defining fights cloud their judgement.

Fast, fit, good chin and heavy puncher from a southpaw stance....Calzaghe can fight.

I think he would have been too busy and fast handed for Eubank, and scored a narrow points win.

I'd have backed Watson to beat him because Michael could adapt and was a great fighter, often under-rated.

Benn is the only one who I think might have dropped Calzaghe and I'd give him the edge over 12 rounds where his experiences of adversity and hard fights see him through.

Collins is a tough-one, but Ithink Calzaghe is strong enough, has faster hands and would stand and trade and succeed because ohis better speed.

I'd back Herol Graham to be too cute, though Calzaghe would be much the bigger man in terms of strength and natural weight.

Calzaghe WPTS Eubank
Calzaghe LPTS Watson
Calzaghe LPTS Benn
Calzaghe WPTS Collins
Calzaghe LPTS Graham

it wasnt Benn'c chin that let him down against Watson and Eubank... it was his weight cutting.....

At super middle he looked a lot more robust

johnswan1 wrote:I just feel that Benn had the heart but not the chin and that's what puts him down my ranking. Remember, it was during what you called his prime where he was stopped by both Watson and Eubank so although he was ferocious, the records show that he was unable to beat either of these guys. I also thought he narrowly won the second fight with Eubank, but I know a lot of other people thought the draw was fair. I'm not sure any of the others would have beaten McClellan and it was a great result for Benn. Maybe I am ranking Joe C a bit too high considering his opponents were far below the level of what the other four were in with.

dont agree mate im afriad the shot that put benn through the ropes would have poleaxed many, and nigel got back up and survived (ok with the help of the press).

He beat Eubank in the rematch end of. Dont care what the scorecards say.

Vs watson he went in with the wrong attitude and this fight was to be the end of his total all out style. Though Benn never could change totally.

he was a lot more circumspect and took his lessons from that fight.


as for the oppo not being much, wharton was underated, piper was a bigger man, Nardiello was world calss, sugar boy malinga was more than world class in fact probably a better fighter than Calzaghe has faced, benns peak years were no doubt 92-95 whyen he was a mroe rounded mature and fighting at a more natural weight. This nigel beat eubank, some world clas soperators and indeed a p4p superstar in G-man and would have done so with JC / Watson / Collins IMO and indeed did vs Eubank (again see above comments...)

Wharton was decent but was beaten any time he stepped up. Any of these guys would be expected to beat him. (Eubank and Reid did). Piper was bigger but was poor and again, any of these guys would be expected to deal with him handily. Nardiello was never world class or even close to it. Malinga was good but always came up short and all of these guys were better than him IMO.

each to their own but id like you to look at Colins record and tell me outside benn and eubank who did he beat who was as good as Wharton - pyatt ????

whio did he beat who was on the same par as Malinga? He didnt.

think you are concentrating on the wrong mans record as I said it adds to collins record that he got benn and eubank at the right time.


and calzaghe hasnt fought anyone as good as wharton for years let alone malinga.

p.s. John are you going on the 10th, if so let me know keen to grab a beer and say hello diasagreeing opinions or not mate!

J wrote:each to their own but id like you to look at Colins record and tell me outside benn and eubank who did he beat who was as good as Wharton - pyatt ????

whio did he beat who was on the same par as Malinga? He didnt.

think you are concentrating on the wrong mans record as I said it adds to collins record that he got benn and eubank at the right time.


and calzaghe hasnt fought anyone as good as wharton for years let alone malinga.

p.s. John are you going on the 10th, if so let me know keen to grab a beer and say hello diasagreeing opinions or not mate!

Well you said that Nardiello was world class, yet he was stopped by Seillier, who Collins stopped in five. Don't forget Collins lost by majority decision 115-113, 115-114 & 114-114 against Reggie Johnson who was coming off the back of a split decision loss to a prime James Toney. Reggie Johnson was better than Malinga and even took Tarver to split decision when aged 35. I know Collins lost against both Johnson and McCallum but he was competitive against both of them and these losses are more impressive to me than Benns win over Malinga.

Don't know about the 10th yet, might be more likely to turn up at a York Hall event as I really enjoyed the last one!

I always thought that Collins retired as his madatory challenger was Calazge and he quit as he couldn't motivate himself for those kinds of fights!

I always thought he ducked the fight.

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:each to their own but id like you to look at Colins record and tell me outside benn and eubank who did he beat who was as good as Wharton - pyatt ????

whio did he beat who was on the same par as Malinga? He didnt.

think you are concentrating on the wrong mans record as I said it adds to collins record that he got benn and eubank at the right time.


and calzaghe hasnt fought anyone as good as wharton for years let alone malinga.

p.s. John are you going on the 10th, if so let me know keen to grab a beer and say hello diasagreeing opinions or not mate!

Well you said that Nardiello was world class, yet he was stopped by Seillier, who Collins stopped in five. Don't forget Collins lost by majority decision 115-113, 115-114 & 114-114 against Reggie Johnson who was coming off the back of a split decision loss to a prime James Toney. Reggie Johnson was better than Malinga and even took Tarver to split decision when aged 35. I know Collins lost against both Johnson and McCallum but he was competitive against both of them and these losses are more impressive to me than Benns win over Malinga.

Don't know about the 10th yet, might be more likely to turn up at a York Hall event as I really enjoyed the last one!

sorry but losing to someone world ranked is never as impressive as winning vs anyone world ranked.

malinga was as good if not better than Reggie Johnson mate.

if you are arguing that Collins recod is better than benns then im sorry im wasting my time.

glad you enjoyed the yorjk hall cracking venue aint it. I know what you mean for watching boxing forgetitng the big fight atmiosphere, just for purely watching boxing its the muts nuts.

J wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:each to their own but id like you to look at Colins record and tell me outside benn and eubank who did he beat who was as good as Wharton - pyatt ????

whio did he beat who was on the same par as Malinga? He didnt.

think you are concentrating on the wrong mans record as I said it adds to collins record that he got benn and eubank at the right time.


and calzaghe hasnt fought anyone as good as wharton for years let alone malinga.

p.s. John are you going on the 10th, if so let me know keen to grab a beer and say hello diasagreeing opinions or not mate!

Well you said that Nardiello was world class, yet he was stopped by Seillier, who Collins stopped in five. Don't forget Collins lost by majority decision 115-113, 115-114 & 114-114 against Reggie Johnson who was coming off the back of a split decision loss to a prime James Toney. Reggie Johnson was better than Malinga and even took Tarver to split decision when aged 35. I know Collins lost against both Johnson and McCallum but he was competitive against both of them and these losses are more impressive to me than Benns win over Malinga.

Don't know about the 10th yet, might be more likely to turn up at a York Hall event as I really enjoyed the last one!

sorry but losing to someone world ranked is never as impressive as winning vs anyone world ranked.

malinga was as good if not better than Reggie Johnson mate.

if you are arguing that Collins recod is better than benns then im sorry im wasting my time.

glad you enjoyed the yorjk hall cracking venue aint it. I know what you mean for watching boxing forgetitng the big fight atmiosphere, just for purely watching boxing its the muts nuts.

Malinga was not near as good as Johnson! His best win came against a shot Benn. He fought the same shot Benn who Collins fought, only Collins dealt with him quicker. Seriously, who did Malinga beat? Take his early three defeats away and he lost to Rocchigiani, John Jarvis?, Lindell Holmes, Eubank and Benn, Jones (by stoppage), even Nardiello. Oh, he managed to beat a shot Benn and Robin Reid.

Now look at Johnsons record. Split decision losses against prime James Toney and prime Antonio Tarver. A win over Steve Collins. Jones was the only fighter to clearly beat him and even that was on points. Johnson was clearly better.

P.S. Yeah I prefer staying away from the football type crowd of the big fight nights. York Hall was class, perfect view of the action! I prefer to get a good view of the fight than experience the atmosphere, think that's why I will probably stay away from going to big fights and watch them on TV instead!

J wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

J wrote:each to their own but id like you to look at Colins record and tell me outside benn and eubank who did he beat who was as good as Wharton - pyatt ????

whio did he beat who was on the same par as Malinga? He didnt.

think you are concentrating on the wrong mans record as I said it adds to collins record that he got benn and eubank at the right time.


and calzaghe hasnt fought anyone as good as wharton for years let alone malinga.

p.s. John are you going on the 10th, if so let me know keen to grab a beer and say hello diasagreeing opinions or not mate!

Well you said that Nardiello was world class, yet he was stopped by Seillier, who Collins stopped in five. Don't forget Collins lost by majority decision 115-113, 115-114 & 114-114 against Reggie Johnson who was coming off the back of a split decision loss to a prime James Toney. Reggie Johnson was better than Malinga and even took Tarver to split decision when aged 35. I know Collins lost against both Johnson and McCallum but he was competitive against both of them and these losses are more impressive to me than Benns win over Malinga.

Don't know about the 10th yet, might be more likely to turn up at a York Hall event as I really enjoyed the last one!

sorry but losing to someone world ranked is never as impressive as winning vs anyone world ranked.

malinga was as good if not better than Reggie Johnson mate.

if you are arguing that Collins recod is better than benns then im sorry im wasting my time.

glad you enjoyed the yorjk hall cracking venue aint it. I know what you mean for watching boxing forgetitng the big fight atmiosphere, just for purely watching boxing its the muts nuts.

i dunno j, collins mixed it with a prime mccallum who is better than anyone on benns resume and dont forget kalambay who is possibly one of the most under-rated fighters going. collins`s first 20 fights were in the school of hard knocks that is the states so he did it the hard way and even after fighting the likes of mccallum, kalambay, johnson, eubank and benn himself he was never stopped, a proud record in itself. nigel was stopped 4 times. dont forget malinga beat benn too.

im not forgetting bro im just saying that if you look at cvollins vs benns records 92-95 its not even comparable, malinga beat benn post mclellan Im not slating steve Im just saying that beating iran barekley /G man is better than losing to Mike Mc /Johnson.


As for Johnson he LOST to these guys, and I hardly think tarver was prime he is a renowned later developer who didnt peak til 2000 + not 1992, who knows how toney was in those days his struggles with the weight make him a less than dependable yardstick at middle.

Its no good just looking at records of who fought who in the background i guess and saying this oppoenent did this or that .............its far more important what that fighter did on that night agianst that opponent than one of his opponents beaitng such and such and but collins still lost to him.


you have to have a feel for it, not just he beat such and such who beat such and such and who lost to......these arguementss rarely hold much water cos people pick what they want out of a fighters record to emphasise their point hapilly ignoring other factors. (thats not a pop at anyone just a generalism we all do it)

which is why i refer to Benns peak years of 92-95, we all saw him then, we all saw his ferocity and desire, sadly the Mcelllan fight robbed him of the very same accolades.

I firmly believe collins got to eubank and benn at the right time, and I like steve but would have beat them in their primes, I personally dont think so not by a long way . In fact the Benn that beat Mcellallan is on of the most fearsome men Ive ever seen in the square circle just to let you kno how high i rate him that night.

J wrote:im not forgetitng im just saying that if you look at cvollins vs benns records 92-95 its not even comparable, malinga beat benn post mclellan Im not slating steve Im just saying that beating iran barekley /G man is better than losing to Mike Mc /Toney.


As for Johnson he LOST to these guys, and I hardly think tarver was prime he is a renowned later developer who didnt peak til 200 + not 1992, who knows how toney was in those days his struggles with the weight make him a less than dependable yardstick at middle. It sno good just l;ooking at records and saying hsi that and the other you have to have a feel for it, not just he beat such and suich ho beat such and such and whio lost to......these arguementss rarely hold much water cos peopel pick what they want out of a fighters record to emphasise their point hapilly ignoring other factors. (thats nto a pop at anyone just a generalism we all do it)

whjich is why i refer to Benns peak years of 92-95, we all saw him then, we all saw his ferocity and desire, saldy the Mcellland fight robbed him of the very same accolades.

I firmly believe collins got to eubank and benn at the right time, and I like steve but would have beat them in their primes, I personally dont think so not by a long way . In fact the Benn that beat Mcellallan is on of the most fearsome men Ive ever seen in the sqaare circle just to let you knwo how high i rate him that night.

Come on! He was swinging wildly all night and missing with a lot of punches too! The crowd cheering made it seem like he was doing better than he really was. McClellan made a mistake by not preparing for a long fight and also had a non existent defence for most of it. It was only heart from Benn and if the ref stopped the fight in the first round nobody would have complained. Also you say Tarver didn't peak until 2000+, not 1991 - well Reggie Johnson fought the 33 year old Tarver in 2002! Plus back then, Toney was high in the P4P ratings - I've seen a huge amount of fights from the US from that time.

where do i talk about his technique John listen to what im saying mate.

and if you think that techinque would have done benn any good in that dog fight against Mc, then you are wrong. Benn never was a boxer like most kick boxers turn boxers there are fundamental flaws in the way they have learned to punch.

fair point on the tarver issue i thought we werer talking arly 90's here though?


re toney you can say what you like tis been documented by the man himself aobut his weight probs at the time.

Either way beating Barkley and Gman is still better than losing to mccallum and johnson simple as that mate.

you will never change my mind niether.

J wrote:im not forgetitng im just saying that if you look at cvollins vs benns records 92-95 its not even comparable, malinga beat benn post mclellan Im not slating steve Im just saying that beating iran barekley /G man is better than losing to Mike Mc /Toney.


As for Johnson he LOST to these guys, and I hardly think tarver was prime he is a renowned later developer who didnt peak til 200 + not 1992, who knows how toney was in those days his struggles with the weight make him a less than dependable yardstick at middle. It sno good just l;ooking at records and saying hsi that and the other you have to have a feel for it, not just he beat such and suich ho beat such and such and whio lost to......these arguementss rarely hold much water cos peopel pick what they want out of a fighters record to emphasise their point hapilly ignoring other factors. (thats nto a pop at anyone just a generalism we all do it)

whjich is why i refer to Benns peak years of 92-95, we all saw him then, we all saw his ferocity and desire, saldy the Mcellland fight robbed him of the very same accolades.

I firmly believe collins got to eubank and benn at the right time, and I like steve but would have beat them in their primes, I personally dont think so not by a long way . In fact the Benn that beat Mcellallan is on of the most fearsome men Ive ever seen in the sqaare circle just to let you knwo how high i rate him that night.

nigel benn had problems with fighters with ringsmarts and good chins all through his career. collins had his number imo in any era. i think steve and lennox have similar problems when it comes to comparing them with benn/ tyson in that they have to fight the myths as well. nigel benn was an exiting fighter to watch and i loved watching his fights but he was very beatable, and often rocked by innoculous looking punches.
michael watson was a massive underdog when he destroyed the dark destroyer myth and then went on to hand eubank his ass for 1 round short of two contests. he went out on his shield against a prime mccallum when the fight was probably a little early for him. but for one punch i think he would have been the best of that particular bunch.

J wrote:where do i talk about his technique John listen to what im saying mate.

and if you think that techinque would have done benn any good in that dog fight against Mc, then you are wrong. Benn never was a boxer like most kick boxers turn boxers there are fundamental flaws in the way they have learned to punch.

fair point on the tarver issue i thought we werer talking arly 90's here though?


re toney you can say what you like tis been documented by the man himself aobut his weight probs at the time.

Either way beating Barkley and Gman is still better than losing to mccallum and johnson simple as that mate.

you will never change my mind niether.

We were talking about early 90's but I was just saying that Johnson is better than Malinga because in the early 90's he took a prime unbeaten Toney to a split decision, plus he beat Collins, and then ten years later he was still good enough to bring a prime Antonio Tarver to split decision. Jones was the only fighter to beat him clearly and that gives him a far better record than Malinga.

I'm basically saying that the only top fighters Benn fought during what you call his prime were Eubank and G Man so it was easy to look good during that period. The fact that he was beaten (and stopped) by Watson, Eubank and Collins puts him behind them all in my book. I know Collins beat a totally different Benn but his wins against Eubank and performances against McCallum and Johnson, plus his having never been stopped puts him top of this group.

Let's agree to disagree!

Benn was one of my idols growing up so you would think I would be bias. But my top five would be:

1.Calzage
2.Watson
3.Benn
4.Eubank
5.Collins

I think Calzage is so under-rated and has a granite chin but so did Eubank and Collins. I think out of the 5 he is the most complete boxer although I have seen the clinks getting bigger recently. He can box, punch, take a punch and go the distance. I think Watson was superb and I think went in ith McCallum too soon and was then frozen out for a few years. I thought in won both the Eubank fights, well he was winning the second until he got stopped. I loved Benn and I think the Watson fight was the best thing to hapen to him because he boxed more instead of trying to fight and he was better for it. The first Eubank fight he tried too hard because he disliked him too much. I agree Benn was better at Super-Middle and I think a move up to light heavy would have been interesting. But he certainly was never the same after McClellan. Out of the five he had the best 1 punch KO. Never ducked anyone and always wanted the Roy Jones fight. AFter McClellen I think Jones took the easy option to stay away. But his biggest weakness was his chin. Remeber the 2nd Nardiello fight when with 30secs left of the 12th he got caught and nearly lost. Eubank was good but I think he won too many close calls and that was very suspious to me. But a great chin, could go the distance and was a good boxer who wore people down with his punches rather than Koed them. But I was never totally convinced and think the judges helped himon more than a few occasions. As for Collins he was tough and uncompromising but fought the right people at the right time. Well managed I think. He was around at the prime of the others but left it until they were past it to fight them. And why did he not fight Calzage? I think Calzage would beat everyone but have most problems with Watson's boxing ability. But on his day and when he was on fire Benn could beat anyone. Rememer Barkley? But for me he was always susceptible to a punch unlike the others. I would stick by these rankings but say anyone of theses great fighters could beat the other on their day

johnswan1 wrote:[Let's agree to disagree!

ofr course we can mate nice chat tho even if we dont agree!

and yeah im openly biased bout benn as well

There have always been arguments about who would have beaten who if they had been around at the same time - Then there is the great fighter at his peak, fighting another great fighter, past his peak and beating him - what would have happened had they both been at their peak, who would have won then? I remember years ago ITV did a program to try to establish who was the greatest heavyweight of all time - They decided there were only three contenders JOE LOUIS - ROCKY MARCIANO and ALI - All the information about all three went into their hi tech Commadore 64 and Ali won the contest - We didnt have veiwer voting then, i dont think - If we had, I think Louis might have been the winner!! Anyway back to your question, yes Collins might have been the best - Eubanks skill for me gives him second - Benns toughness and determination for third and Watson for the final place - Just the way I see it but the whole thing is very subjective and just my opinion - Calzaghe beat Eubank when Eubank was past his best and may have beaten Collins for the same reason - Had Joe been there when the others were at their peak is very debateable and I personally wouldnt argue that one - I think Calzaghe still has a long way to go to stand equal to the others in the minds of the boxing public who seem to think he isnt quite in their class - He needs those top fights in the next two years and if he gets them and wins, he may win over those who doubt him

I watched Benn v Eubank II a little while back and thought that the draw was a pretty fair result. First time around I was livid as I was rooting for Benn but it's so hard to score most of the rounds in that fight.

I think that Collins didn't really want the JC fight as he couldn't get himself motivated and was past his best. In his heyday it would have been an interesting tearup.

For me Benn was the most exciting of the era and Collins helped to keep the division interesting for a couple more years. Eubank was as hard as nails, but that multi fight deal with Sky was a bad move and he got a few generous decisions in that time. The 2nd Watson fight also seemed to change him but he could always get himself up for the big fights (as we saw with Carl Thompson). Watson had class too and that era was probably the best I can remember as a boxing fan, especially in the UK. After seeing what RJJ did to Toney in their fight, I feel he would have hammered all of those mentioned above.

When Benn beat McClellan he was hypnptised by Paul McKenna that day and told he couldnt lose - Benn really was ferocious that night - A good cruiserweight wouldnt have handled him - I am sure the hypnosis had something to do with the result.