BoxRec

This is a list I was working on, so I thought it might lead to some good discussion:

25 Greatest Southpaws
1 Pernell Whitaker
2 Marvin Hagler
3 Vicente Saldivar
4 Tiger Flowers
5 Lew Tendler
6 Flash Elorde
7 Duilio Loi
8 Freddie Miller
9 Khaosai Galaxy
10 Daniel Zaragoza
11 Young Corbett III
12 Laszlo Papp
13 Hector Camacho
14 Ayub Kalule
15 Cornelius Boza-Edwards
16 Horacio Accavallo
17 George KO Chaney
18 Naseem Hamed
19 Jose Luis Ramirez
20 Winky Wright
21 Yoko Gushiken
22 Bazooka Limon
23 Johnny Wilson
24 Marvin Johnson
25 Jimmy Carruthers

I don't box, so I was wondering if someone can give me a quick scouting report of the advantages of being a southpaw from a trainer's perspective against an orthodox fighter.

I forgot about Too Sharp :(
I need to assess his position, but he belongs on the list.

Michael Moorer just missed the cut. I think some of the fighters at other weights were better than Double M, who held a WBO LH title and one close win over Holyfield.

I put Hamed in with George KO Chaney because both fighters were similar, short, featherweight KO machines. I always dock Hamed a little because he so blatantly ducked Juan Manuel Marquez for over two years and that was his mandatory. If he had fought Marquez, the Prince's reign would have come to an end much quicker IMO.

dnahar32 wrote:I don't box, so I was wondering if someone can give me a quick scouting report of the advantages of being a southpaw from a trainer's perspective against an orthodox fighter.

The biggest advatage is that obviously most opponents a fighter meets will be right handed. So southpaws are used to fighting right handed fighters but orthodox fighters are not used to fighting southpaws.

This means that the orthodox fighter will have to get used to throwing different shots to counter his opponents punches than he normally would.

sorry, just realised wrote from a trainer's perspective, maybe someone else can give a more in depth explianation.

dnahar32 wrote:This is a list I was working on, so I thought it might lead to some good discussion:

25 Greatest Southpaws
1 Pernell Whitaker
2 Marvin Hagler
3 Vicente Saldivar
4 Tiger Flowers
5 Lew Tendler
6 Flash Elorde
7 Duilio Loi
8 Freddie Miller
9 Khaosai Galaxy
10 Daniel Zaragoza
11 Young Corbett III
12 Laszlo Papp
13 Hector Camacho
14 Ayub Kalule
15 Cornelius Boza-Edwards
16 Horacio Accavallo
17 George KO Chaney
18 Naseem Hamed
19 Jose Luis Ramirez
20 Winky Wright
21 Yoko Gushiken
22 Bazooka Limon
23 Johnny Wilson
24 Marvin Johnson
25 Jimmy Carruthers

I don't box, so I was wondering if someone can give me a quick scouting report of the advantages of being a southpaw from a trainer's perspective against an orthodox fighter.

Have you ever seen Bazooka Limon fight?He was wildly entertaining,but I don't think he qualifies as great.Maybe to some,but I don't think most who have seen him would think so.,
zuru

Great list.
As a southpaw who's boxed as a kid, then has had some street-fights as a young adult, southpaws are susceptible to the straight, or over-hand right.
This vulnerability of course is over-come by training and movement during a fight.
But just as conversely, righties are open to a straight left hand lead when the southpaw is postitioned correctly. It comes down to foot-work and stance.

zuru wrote: Have you ever seen Bazooka Limon fight?He was wildly entertaining,but I don't think he qualifies as great.Maybe to some,but I don't think most who have seen him would think so.,
zuru

I have seen him, and I agree he's not great. But he was a good champion in a competitive jr lightweight era and fought competitive fights. I have him ranked among solid champs like Marvin Johnson and Johnny Wilson, not HOF great fighters. When you're just ranking southpaws, not all of the fighters are going to be great.

Maybe I should have titled the list "The 25 Best Southpaws" :)

Decagon wrote:

dnahar32 wrote:I forgot about Too Sharp :(
I put Hamed in with George KO Chaney because both fighters were similar, short, featherweight KO machines. I always dock Hamed a little because he so blatantly ducked Juan Manuel Marquez for over two years and that was his mandatory. If he had fought Marquez, the Prince's reign would have come to an end much quicker IMO.

... and yet you don't dock Hector Camacho for avoiding any fighter with a pulse? Hamed didn't fight Marquez because he was busing trying to beat every other major titlist. You know what? He did. And lets not forget all those years when Pernell Whitaker wouldn't fight anyone at 147. Um and HELLO????? Khaosai Galaxy???????? He hardly ever fought anyone in the top 10! Lazlo Papp??? He never fought anyone outside of Europe (politics got in the way). Did he even beat any top-10 fighters? Docking Hamed and not Galaxy is asinine. You either don't know what the hell you're talking about, or you hate Hamed for some reason. Maybe both.

Wow, lot's of hostility there. Let's take these one-by-one.

Hector Camacho managed to defeat Ramirez, Boza-Edwards, Limon, Rosario, and Solis. I would say those fighters weren't dead when he beat them. That's solid opposition and all good wins. And much better competition than Hamed beat.

When you say Hamed ducked Marquez because he was busy fighting the other title holders, that is incorrect. Marquez became Prince's mandatory in April 1998 after he beat Wilfredo Vasquez who held the WBA title (stripped of WBA when he fought Hamed). At that time, JMM became the WBO mandatory. Hamed petitioned for many optional defenses rather than fight Marquez. Those fights were Wayne McCullough (McCullough had not fought at 126 before), Paul Ingle (pre-title), Cesar Soto (WBC champ), Vuyani Bungu (never fought at 126), and Augie Sanchez. Other than the Soto fight, Hamed could easily have taken the mandatory but did not do so. He also did not keep the WBC belt but stayed with the WBO. That is ducking a fighter in my book and I believe JMM had the substance to beat him.

I give credit to Pernell Whitaker over his entire career, not just at welter. Whitaker's competition over his career speaks for itself as do his skills.

Khaosai Galaxy fought in an era where the Asian continent only recognized the WBA and WBC champs. He unified with Pical, but Pical was forced to give up his IBF strap because Asia did not recognize the IBF. He also fought former champs such as Yong-Kang Kim, Rafael Orono, and others. The comp wasn't the best, but it was the most that could be expected in the jr bantamweight division at the time and he didn't suffer the knockdowns that Hamed did when he dominated his competition.

Laszlo Papp is, I admit, a potential pick. He did beat ranked fighters in Mick Leahy and Folledo at the end of his career and he was ranked in the Ring Top 10 the last 3 years he was allowed to box. The Hungarian govt prevented him from leaving Europe. When he became good, the govt became envious of his success and shut down his career through no fault of his own. But Papp fought well and, as a 3-time Olympic champ with a win over Jose Torres and others, I feel he would have been a great fighter and the HOF recently recognized him as such. If you're a basketball fan, his career is a could've been like Bill Walton's was.

I do agree that Whitaker and Hagler are the top two!

Decagon wrote:Hamed is too low. Where are Michael Moorer and Mark Johnson?

Yep I completely agree. Michael Moorer should definitely be on the list. He's the only southpaw lineal champion in history and he won the title by defeating no less than Evander Holyfield. Made the mistake of poor strategy against Foreman, which for better or worse is what he will be remembered for. People forget that Moorer was a great light heavyweight fighter and had he not gone up to heavy, I believe he would have taken over that division. The top light heavies at the time when Moorer went up in weight were, if memory serves, Virgil Hill, and old Thomas Hearns, Iran Barkley, Charles Williams, Jeff Harding and Dennis Andries...I'm probably forgetting some. Nonetheless, I don't think that Moorer would have had a problem defeating any of the top Light Heavies of the era and had he chosen to stay at light heavy, we may all be thinking of him in a different light right now. So, yeah, Moorer needs to be in the top 25.

Galaxy would be higher on my list. The man was really a force of nature.

What about a list of converted lefties? Joe Frazier etc...

dnahar32 wrote:

zuru wrote: Have you ever seen Bazooka Limon fight?He was wildly entertaining,but I don't think he qualifies as great.Maybe to some,but I don't think most who have seen him would think so.,
zuru

I have seen him, and I agree he's not great. But he was a good champion in a competitive jr lightweight era and fought competitive fights. I have him ranked among solid champs like Marvin Johnson and Johnny Wilson, not HOF great fighters. When you're just ranking southpaws, not all of the fighters are going to be great.

Maybe I should have titled the list "The 25 Best Southpaws" :)

I didn't mean to sound like a know-it-all,but I know many folks (myself definitely included)have heard,or read of certain fighters,but never actually seen them fight.And once you have them pictured in your mind,and then to actually see them,can be greatly surprised(me,with having read about T.Canzoneri,then disappointly seeing him)zuru

WHERE IS MICHAEL "SECOND TOO" NUNN??

Alan Minter definitely belongs on that list. Imagine what his record would have been he was more cut resistant.

I would have Nunn and Moorer on that list, maybe chuck davey too.

There was, too, two great Argentinian southpaw punchers: José Carattoli (Light Heavyweight) and Eduardo Lausse (Middleweight)

Kalule and Hamed are on the list yet Herol 'Bomber' Graham isn't??

Moorer > Wright & Hamed

By far.

Limon was a better fighter then Hamed , an Camacho was better then both of them, btw
the best punch to use on a southpaw is a left hook

Frank

decagon
You say the straight right is the best punch to use on a southpaw, well that is just your theory,
When i say the left hook i speak from personal experience as 2 out of 3 of my sons that fought pro were southpaws an i know they got hit easier with a left hook then a straight right .
My son Tony was a converted southpaw an if you saw his fight with southpaw Robin Blake you saw Tony did most of his damage with the left hook

Frank

This thread should be titled the "25 most above average southpaws"...as the mere fact that they are southpaw precludes them from greatness. Ass backward punching freakos.

I'd put Khaosai Galaxy at number 3, and Young Corbett III, one of the most underrated fighters of all time at number 4.

dnahar32 wrote:This is a list I was working on, so I thought it might lead to some good discussion:

25 Greatest Southpaws
1 Pernell Whitaker
2 Marvin Hagler
3 Vicente Saldivar
4 Tiger Flowers
5 Lew Tendler
6 Flash Elorde
7 Duilio Loi
8 Freddie Miller
9 Khaosai Galaxy
10 Daniel Zaragoza
11 Young Corbett III
12 Laszlo Papp
13 Hector Camacho
14 Ayub Kalule
15 Cornelius Boza-Edwards
16 Horacio Accavallo
17 George KO Chaney
18 Naseem Hamed
19 Jose Luis Ramirez
20 Winky Wright
21 Yoko Gushiken
22 Bazooka Limon
23 Johnny Wilson
24 Marvin Johnson
25 Jimmy Carruthers

I don't box, so I was wondering if someone can give me a quick scouting report of the advantages of being a southpaw from a trainer's perspective against an orthodox fighter.

You have Winky below Hamed?? Winky has waaaaaaaay more better wins than Hamed. Limon also.

Seamus wrote:I'd put Khaosai Galaxy at number 3, and Young Corbett III, one of the most underrated fighters of all time at number 4.

I dunno about Corbett (don't know much about him), but I definately think Galaxy should be up there, Pernell and Marvin are a toss up.

Corbett was an amazing fighter, who after losing his World welterweight title, moved up to Middlewight, where he defeated Hall of Famers, Mickey Walker, Billy Conn, who he put on the canvas, Fred Apostoli and future World Light Heavyweight champion Gus Lesnevich, who he stopped in 5 rounds. Corbett was recognized as World Middleweight champion by the California State Athletic Commission during the chaotic period between the reigns of Mickey Walker and Tony Zale, when something like 13 fighters were recognized as world champions by various governing bodies. Personally I think he would have beaten most of them.

I find it hard to rate any southpaw above Hagler but Whitaker was a great southpaw too. I've never really made a southpaw list but this a good interesting one. I don't fully agree with it completely, but it is a good strong list.