BoxRec

I would please like to know what the strength of former WBA Heavyweight Champion Jimmy Ellis and also his weakness?

kovit wrote:I would please like to know what the strength of former WBA Heavyweight Champion Jimmy Ellis and also his weakness?

Strength: Great boxer

Weakness: Fought in an era with greater boxers and huge punchers

If Jimmy was fighting today he would be the champ right now, in my opinion.

Previous post sums it up well....if you want to see Jimmy's strengths and weaknesses on display in one fight just watch a tape of his first fight with Frazier.

j

john2345 wrote:Previous post sums it up well....if you want to see Jimmy's strengths and weaknesses on display in one fight just watch a tape of his first fight with Frazier.

j

Yeah in that Frazier fight he moved pretty well.

kinda funny how ellis lost a lot as a middle so he moved up to heavy and became a champion in heayweights toughest era in history!


- watch ellis vs bonavena and quarry and patterson

I've never thought to speak on this theory, but the reason I think he was good at heavy and not middle is because of his advantages.

At heavyweight his advantage was his speed but at middleweight his speed was just average.

Can you please give a specific details about Ellis' strength and weakness? For his strength is his jabs, combinations, movement, boxing skills, ring smarts something like that and his weakness is his lack of KO power.

Please tell me in a specific details about Ellis' strength and weakness.

Ellis was a skillful boxer, a smooth mover with a very good jab, and a decent enough punch. He didn't really have the size or raw strength to stand up to the very best heavyweights of his era (notably Frazier) but he was a top ranking fighter in his day and could hold his owen with most

He was Ali's sparring partner for a long time, and trained by Angelo Dundee. In many ways you can see "bits of Ali" (or maybe "bits of Angelo"!) in his style and movement.

Like I said in an earlier post, if you want to see the "strengths and weaknesses" of Jimmy, watch the first Frazier fight. In the first few rounds he's moving, jabbing, mixing it with Frazier...and looking like a winner. Then he was overwhelmed....

Not sure he'd have been as effective at the lighter weights... he was clever and fast for a heavy, but without the poundage he was cuaght out a few times.

Just my opinion from my recollection of his fights.

J

I would mostly agree with what has already been said about his strengths. He had a good jab his jab, defense, and overall boxing ability. He had good handspeed. His power wasn't enough to ko someone with a great chin, but he had a little pop. He was a smart fighter.
He had a decent chin but not a great one.
I had also kind of wondered why he he didn't have a great record as a middleweight. I'm now thinking that it had to do with inexperience and his opposition.
He lost 5 times at middleweight.
His first loss was against Holly Mims who was a good middleweight. Ellis fought him in only his 6th fight. (Ellis did later beat him).
His second loss was to Henry Hank who was a top 10 contender for several years. He fought him in only his 13th fight.
His third loss was to Rubin Carter, another good middleweight. This was Ellis' 17 fight.
His 4th loss was to Don Fullmer, who was pretty good too. This was his 19th fight.
His 5th loss was to George Benton, yet another experienced fighter who was a contender for several years.
So after only 20 fights, he was 15-5, and all 5 losses were to good fighters who had a lot more experience than he did at the time.
By the time he was an experienced fighter, he was outgrowing the middleweight division.

How good was he as a heavyweight? He did win the WBA tournament. While Frazier and obviously Ali weren't in it, it's still a nice accomlpishment. The other 7 fighters were all good fighters. He had to beat Leotis Martin, Oscar Bonavena, and Jerry Quarry.

While he couldn't beat Frazier or Ali (Interesting to not that Angelo Dundee in his corner instead of Ali's), he still fashioned a pretty good career. He deserves to be ranked among the top 50 heavyweights of all time.

After I sent an earlier post on this topic I looked at Jimmy's record on Boxrec and was quite surprised to see that he fought so many class middleweights so early in his career. In fact I thought for a while that perhaps part of his earlier record was missing! As Ambling Alp posts he was taking on top middles after only a few fights.

Why was he taking these fights so early? I can't remember if he was a top amateur, or if he was seen as the bright young star...Was Dundee training him at that early stage of his career?

I only really remember Ellis as a Light Heavy and Heavy.... like I said, surprised thathe fought such top men at middle.

J

Replying to my own question....

Looked it up on Wikipedia.... Ellis was managed till 1965 by Bud Bruner. After that he switched to Angelo.

It all comes back to me now.... he beat Ali as an amateur, so he clearly turned pro with high hopes.

Does seem to have taken on tough fights early in his caeerr though!

J

Ellis had a very good run, as a Heavyweight, beating ranked fighter's in order, Persol, Martin, Bonavena, Quarry (WBA Finals) and Patterson, Throw in 1971 George Chuvalo, And Jimmy defeated 6 World top ten heavyweights, w 2 Knockouts, 40-12-1 (24 KO) Jimmy had great speed, and a very dynamic sneak Right. A very accomplished boxer, who was much more than Muhammad Ali's sparring partner, a class act , and I'm saddend to hear he did not have a good time the last 15 years to his death due to Dementia!

iceman21287 wrote:

kovit wrote:I would please like to know what the strength of former WBA Heavyweight Champion Jimmy Ellis and also his weakness?

Strength: Great boxer

Weakness: Fought in an era with greater boxers and huge punchers

If Jimmy was fighting today he would be the champ right now, in my opinion.

WTF??? ... Ellis fought most of his career fights at MIDDLEWEIGHT before becoming so-called "Heavyweight Champion"... He didn't leave the Middleweight Division until he was 25 and never beat a good sized Heavyweight who had good skills.. His best wins were over 204-pound punching bag Bonavena.. 195-pound counter-puncher Jerry Quarry, and the super hittable medium sized Heavyweight, George Chuvalo... Ellis was given a gift decision over Patterson in a fight where he was badly outboxed and looked ridiculous.. He was knocked out by Ali, Earnie Shavers and Joe Frazier X 2 -- and also lost to Boone Kirkman, Ron Lyle, and Joe Bugner.. He had 40 wins and 12 losses.. He was a good boxer, but not difficult to hit.. He was Ali's chief sparring partner for a long time.

If Ellis tried to compete with today's Heavyweights he would have been murdered by Joshua and Ortiz among others.

think the Kovit was the fella that always asked "how tall in standing was such and such?" and another poster whose name escapes me, would always answer. It went on for what seemed like years

roger that.....

and iceman posted that in 2005 his final post was in late 2013.....he may not be keeping up with this conversation.

bollocks wrote: think the Kovit was the fella that always asked "how tall in standing was such and such?" and another poster whose name escapes me, would always answer. It went on for what seemed like years

Wasn't that Il Duce? Who ended up imagining conversations and committing them to writing, a sure sign that you are a fantasist with some issues. I'm sure nobody else on this forum would do that.

Wow... How soon we go off topic