BoxRec

How would this one go?

Battle of the old school cruiserweight banger versus the new age banger.

It would be pretty explosive, just a matter of which one lands first.

I would lean towards Hide, due to his experience, but it wouldn't suprise if Haye sparked him out pretty easily.

id go for haye on this one, hides elusiveness disappeared a long time ago..a bit like his chin.

hide has a worse chin than haye...by far !!

Hmm...Hide was knocked out by Heavyweights though, not cruisers...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm...Hide was knocked out by Heavyweights though, not cruisers...

Im pretty sure that Haye punches as hard as many decent Heavyweights. The definition of power: = speed and timing. Size doesnt necessarily come into it.

Could you see Hide walk through the type of shot that Haye nailed Gurov with?

yeah i'd go with haye on this one.

wouldn't totally rule out the herb though.

hide's been dropped by what seemed to be phantom punches, from bowe and klitschko. granted they were bigger men, but he has been shockingly vulnerable

herbie's not fought for a long time, if he wanted to be a good cruiser he should've tried it in his heyday, 1993. he'd probably get knocked spark out by a lot of good cruiserweights now.

12 round borefest

jomothepure wrote:12 round borefest

Whatchoo talkin bout Willis????

Syntax Error wrote:

jomothepure wrote:12 round borefest

Whatchoo talkin bout Willis????

forgot these, sorry

[sarcasm] [/sarcasm]

Always handy when commending WBO mandatory opponents or Danny Williams' fitness regime

jomothepure wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

jomothepure wrote:12 round borefest

Whatchoo talkin bout Willis????

forgot these, sorry

[sarcasm] [/sarcasm]

Always handy when commending WBO mandatory opponents or Danny Williams' fitness regime

LOL!!!

liamlion wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm...Hide was knocked out by Heavyweights though, not cruisers...

Im pretty sure that Haye punches as hard as many decent Heavyweights. The definition of power: = speed and timing. Size doesnt necessarily come into it.

Could you see Hide walk through the type of shot that Haye nailed Gurov with?

Haye hits hard alright, but name one heavyweight he's knocked out....answer...none.

It's easy to say he punches as hard as heavyweights, lets wait and see what happens if and when he starts fighting heavyweights and actually hits one.

liamlion wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm...Hide was knocked out by Heavyweights though, not cruisers...

Im pretty sure that Haye punches as hard as many decent Heavyweights. The definition of power: = speed and timing. Size doesnt necessarily come into it.

Could you see Hide walk through the type of shot that Haye nailed Gurov with?

Power = Speed x Mass - so size is also important, timing does not equal power - timing is the transfer of power

Its really about who lands first - each has the power to take out the other. I'd lean with Haye because Hides been so inactive so ring rust, speed, reflexs etc won't be as great.

I'd want Hide to KO Haye though - just something I don't quite like about him.

Momentum is mass x velocity. Punch power is a little more complicated than that. Being quick gives a significant advantage as shots which you don't see coming are far more shocking to the nervous system, which is why I think it's interesting that the most destructive heavyweights are below about 240 pounds. Liston, Tyson, Foreman, Frazier...all under 230 in fact in their primes.

I would guess Haye comes out and Nails Hide, he took enough from Thompson to show that he can stay standing. We know Hides Chin is sh1t we also know Hayes isn't much cop, who will have better movement? 12 years ago Hide now Haye.

Alternatively the two fighters circle in the ring, police enter and nick hide on that Warrent he is avoiding coming back to england over, end of fight.

Haye KO 1 xD

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Momentum is mass x velocity. Punch power is a little more complicated than that. Being quick gives a significant advantage as shots which you don't see coming are far more shocking to the nervous system, which is why I think it's interesting that the most destructive heavyweights are below about 240 pounds. Liston, Tyson, Foreman, Frazier...all under 230 in fact in their primes.

Mass in a punch is how much of your body you can turn into your punch and speed is how you get as many muscle motor units firing as quickly as possible. Ie Vitalis huge but can't get much mass/muscle strength behind his shots because he arm punches.

The worlds strongest weight lifters/powerlifters sort of level out around 240. So I'd say this may be the optimum for human strength.

That's interesting, I thought the guys on worlds strongest man were heavier than that, or is that not what you mean by powerlifting.

A lot of it must be to do with Inertia I would have thought as well....

Whoever lands first wins.

The Herb is pretty fast handed and can crack hard too - If Mock (a super middle) can have Haye hanging on for dear life, then Hide who has the power, would destroy Haye.

Herbie is prone to being knocked out by a jab though...like I say, whoever lands first :)

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Power = Speed x Mass - so size is also important, timing does not equal power - timing is the transfer of power.

Ive opened a can of worms here... Im no scientist (so im probably talking bollocks) but im not so sure that Mass comes into it. I found this example:

Will N. Andable and Ben Pumpiniron, are in the weightlifting room. Will lifts the 100-pound barbell over his head 10 times in one minute; Ben lifts the 100-pound barbell over his head 10 times in 10 seconds. Which student does the most work? Which student delivers the most power?

The answer...Yet, Ben is the most "power-full" since he does the same work in less time. Power and time are inversely proportional.

There is no mention of mass in that at all, the key to 'power punching' is speed and the timing to land that speed at the optimum moment to create power. Hence why straweights with great technique, such as the great Ricardo Lopez, had little body mass but still knocked people out.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Ie Vitalis huge but can't get much mass/muscle strength behind his shots because he arm punches.

Your right that Vitali Klitschko doesnt put much of his weight behind his punches, and they do indeed appear like arm punches. However the reality is something far different. This is why Mass isnt integral to Power, but speed and timing are. In the build up to the Audley Harrison fight, Danny Williams said Klitschko was the hardest puching fighter he had ever faced. Klitschko also shook up Lennox Lewis real bad. Klitschko had an ugly but very efficient punch technique.

You're getting confused here.

One does more work, because he does it in a smaller time. That doesn't really equate to what we are talking about.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:You're getting confused here.

One does more work, because he does it in a smaller time. That doesn't really equate to what we are talking about.

Yeah, I am shit at science. Though I do know that if you get punched in the face, it will probably hurt!

~Yep, you don't need to be stephen hawking to figure that one out mate......

liamlion wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Power = Speed x Mass - so size is also important, timing does not equal power - timing is the transfer of power.

Ive opened a can of worms here... Im no scientist (so im probably talking bollocks) but im not so sure that Mass comes into it. I found this example:

Will N. Andable and Ben Pumpiniron, are in the weightlifting room. Will lifts the 100-pound barbell over his head 10 times in one minute; Ben lifts the 100-pound barbell over his head 10 times in 10 seconds. Which student does the most work? Which student delivers the most power?

The answer...Yet, Ben is the most "power-full" since he does the same work in less time. Power and time are inversely proportional.

There is no mention of mass in that at all, the key to 'power punching' is speed and the timing to land that speed at the optimum moment to create power. Hence why straweights with great technique, such as the great Ricardo Lopez, had little body mass but still knocked people out.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Ie Vitalis huge but can't get much mass/muscle strength behind his shots because he arm punches.

Your right that Vitali Klitschko doesnt put much of his weight behind his punches, and they do indeed appear like arm punches. However the reality is something far different. This is why Mass isnt integral to Power, but speed and timing are. In the build up to the Audley Harrison fight, Danny Williams said Klitschko was the hardest puching fighter he had ever faced. Klitschko also shook up Lennox Lewis real bad. Klitschko had an ugly but very efficient punch technique.

The weight is the weight of the barbell in that case isn't it bud. Think about it this way if a a grain of salt hits you in the face at 100miles an hour it won't hurt but if a car hits you at 50miles an hour that'll kill you. Now imagine if a featherweight fights a heavyweight.

Vitali isn't a HUGE puncher considering his strength levels because allot of his body strength isn't in the punch. He hits his opponents ALLOT of times to drop them. Hes a very good arm puncher though and occasionally gets some swing in his shots. Punching power is technique and having the strength/power and timing to deliver the KO.

Point is Hide fought guy 50% stronger than anyone Hayes faced. Bowe and Vitali are huge and strong. Imagine Hide against Thompson.

I doubt Haye would fare any better but in todays division he won't face anyone like that. You need a good defense and chin and composure to handle the super heavies - Haye seems like a 2000 version of Hide but maybe he can do better. You'd have to give Haye/Hide good shots against Byrd imo.

WHERE IS HOWARD RAINEY WHEN WE NEED HIM, HOWARD WOULD KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS THAT THIS THREAD HAS HIGHLIGHTED......

or perhaps he is already one of the participants??

where are you howard or lorna !!

liamlion wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Power = Speed x Mass - so size is also important, timing does not equal power - timing is the transfer of power.

Ive opened a can of worms here... Im no scientist (so im probably talking bollocks) but im not so sure that Mass comes into it. I found this example:

Will N. Andable and Ben Pumpiniron, are in the weightlifting room. Will lifts the 100-pound barbell over his head 10 times in one minute; Ben lifts the 100-pound barbell over his head 10 times in 10 seconds. Which student does the most work? Which student delivers the most power?

The answer...Yet, Ben is the most "power-full" since he does the same work in less time. Power and time are inversely proportional.

There is no mention of mass in that at all, the key to 'power punching' is speed and the timing to land that speed at the optimum moment to create power. Hence why straweights with great technique, such as the great Ricardo Lopez, had little body mass but still knocked people out.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Ie Vitalis huge but can't get much mass/muscle strength behind his shots because he arm punches.

Your right that Vitali Klitschko doesnt put much of his weight behind his punches, and they do indeed appear like arm punches. However the reality is something far different. This is why Mass isnt integral to Power, but speed and timing are. In the build up to the Audley Harrison fight, Danny Williams said Klitschko was the hardest puching fighter he had ever faced. Klitschko also shook up Lennox Lewis real bad. Klitschko had an ugly but very efficient punch technique.

I thought Williams said Tyson hit harder but Klitschko's power was more consistent? Would seem to go with his arm-punching technique, that kind of shot doesn't take it out of it as quickly as Tyson's full-body swings, and if you're that size then those arm shots are still going to bloody hurt, let alone a few hundred of them.