BoxRec

1: In your opinion, what was sonny's peak fight and why?

2: Talk you inform me on how the sparring session between Foreman and Liston went? I heard George said that he was the only man who couldn't handle him physically, or something like that.

I think Sonny's peak fight would have to be either of the Floyd Patterson bouts. He destroyed Floyd in one round to win the title, then did it again in one round for his only title defense. Next up for Liston was Cassius Clay and Sonny's legacy was never the same after that. Following the two Patterson bouts, Liston was being compared to Joe Louis. Such talk immediately ended following the first Clay bout.

I'd say Liston was at his best against Zora Folley and in the two Patterson fights. And despite the Machen fight being regarded by many as a poor fight for Sonny I thought he showed a lot of skill, movement and all-round ability in that fight.

Would have been interesting to see how he'd have fared against Ali if the return had gone ahead on the original date, as he had worked himself into tremendous shape for that fight. I remember reading at the time that he reckoned he could never again get back into that condition.

J

I think Liston peaked during the 1958-60 period. Which exact fights he was at his very best in is hard to say, but he was definitley very good at this stage.

I believe Foreman said that Liston was the only guy he couldn't make back up in sparring. Liston was equally strong as Foreman and a better all round technician at the time they sparred, but keep in mind that foreman was very raw back then.

-KOKid-

The sharpest I saw Liston was in the fifty eight second bout with Wayne Bethea. Terrific display of aggression, speed, power, accuracy and combination punching. Bethea was never stopped before or after Liston, but on this night he was massacred in one minute.

DoubleM wrote:The sharpest I saw Liston was in the fifty eight second bout with Wayne Bethea. Terrific display of aggression, speed, power, accuracy and combination punching. Bethea was never stopped before or after Liston, but on this night he was massacred in one minute.

Liston would almost certainly have won the title in 1959/60 had Patterson fough him instead of taking on another supposed "soft touch" in Ingemar Johansson. If he had done so - and stayed dedicated to training - then his record suggests he'd have defended successfully against every serious contender of the time - Folley, Machen, Williams, DeJohn, and Valdes. Plus he'd have blasted Ingemar out in a few rounds.

His legacy would look a lot different if he'd had a long stint as champion - which he deserved. And he would likely have fought the cream of the crop, unlike the low level guys that D'Amato allowed Floyd to face (for whatever reason)

You might get the impression that Sonny was my favourite fighter in my early years of following the game!

J

I agree that Sonny Liston was underrated, and that had he got his title shot earlier he would have made a lot of defences, and his legacy would have put him high up the all-time list, if he isnt there already.
I hadnt heard about him sparring with George Foreman, but it doesnt surprise me what Foreman is reported to have said

It's a shame the original rematch with Ali was cancelled. Liston would have put up stronger resistance.

Ezzard wrote:It's a shame the original rematch with Ali was cancelled. Liston would have put up stronger resistance.

What makes you say that? I actually watched the bout last night - the ESPN Classic recording - they showed the weigh-in and Liston looked in tremendous shape.

i always thought listons peak fight was the 2nd cleveland williams fight, he went out there and destroyed a dangerous contender who know one wanted to fight and unlike the first fight, he was not in any trouble in the 2nd williams bout. that last knockdown of cleveland williams, watch williams face. he looks like he is about to cry he is in so much pain.



it didnt matter that liston didnt win the title earlier because he cleaned out the division anyway before he won the title

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i always thought listons peak fight was the 2nd cleveland williams fight, he went out there and destroyed a dangerous contender who know one wanted to fight and unlike the first fight, he was not in any trouble in the 2nd williams bout. that last knockdown of cleveland williams, watch williams face. he looks like he is about to cry he is in so much pain.



it didnt matter that liston didnt win the title earlier because he cleaned out the division anyway before he won the title

I think that from the point of view of Liston's place in heavyweight history it DOES matter that he didn't win the title earlier. Many people simply see him - or choose to see him - as the loser in the Ali fights. If he'd enjoyed a string of defences against top contenders (as opposed to cleaning out the division in non-title fights) he'd now be more widely regarded as a true champ - which he was in all but name from 1958/60 - and a truly great heavyweight.

Like you say, "he cleaned out the division anyway before he won the title" - but a lot of people don't have that view as their primary thought of Liston.

J

Collins2000 wrote:

Ezzard wrote:It's a shame the original rematch with Ali was cancelled. Liston would have put up stronger resistance.

What makes you say that? I actually watched the bout last night - the ESPN Classic recording - they showed the weigh-in and Liston looked in tremendous shape.

Liston had a point to prove. He really got his head down and trained hard and lived clean. Mentally he was up for the fight. He would have fared better than the first fight. When the rematch was cancelled Sonny said that he just couldn't motivate himself to maintain the level of fitness required as well as being mentally prepared.

I don't think either fight was fixed. I think Liston was on the slide but nobody noticed because he was blasting away Patterson. He'd also had so few rounds over the previous 4 years.

I think the result would have been the same but Ali might have not had all his own way. I do believe that both Liston and Foreman were perfect for Ali. They were great names with a big aura about them but made to measure for Ali.

One fight I'd have loved to have seen was Frazier-Liston. Frazier might have given him a shot when he was champion.