BoxRec

Many people like to say that Robinson was never consistantly successful at MW.

Alot of people say things like, If Turpin could beat Robinson why not so and so?" Robinson was 128-1-2-87 1NC when he entered the ring vs Turpin. Robinson lost a close 15 round decision to Turpin on 7-10-51, resulting in only his second loss in 133 pro bouts. On 9-12-51 Robinson stopped Turpin in the 10th round. Turpin went 66-8-1-45 overall and really was a good fighter though. I'm not exactly sure when Robinson's first MW fight was but I do know that by 1946 he was fighting WW and MW fights. Robinson had many MW fights prior to the Turpin fight incuding wins over S. Belloise, R. Villemain x2, J. Basora, C. Olson(he would beat him 3 more times after facing Turpin), L. Van Dam, J. Lamotta 5 out of 6, and H. Mims among others. The loss to Lamotta came in Robinson's 41st fight. Robinson weighed 145 and Lamotta weighed 157. It was a close loss. Robinson had already beat Lamotta once and would go on to beat him 4 more times. After beating Turpin a well past his prime Robinson would go on to beat Olson 3 more times, Graziano, and outbox LHW champ Maxim for 12 1/2 rounds before collapsing from heat exhaustion along with the original ref. I give credit to Maxim, but this was not Robinson at his best. Robinson retired for nearly 3 years after the Maxim fight, his record was 131-3-2 .

with 89 Knockouts. Robinson came back and was clearly not the same. Robinson showed that even though he was past his best days he was still better than most and was able to go 1-2-1-1Ko vs Fullmer and 1-1 vs Basilio. Robinson was almost 41 when he faced Fullmer for the fourth time. My point is that when rating Robinson with the all-time MWs don't just look at the MW fights that took place later in his career. Robinson fought many MW fights before he was past his prime as I previously pointed out. It is this Robinson that may have been able to beat the likes of Greb, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, RJJ, Hopkins, etc. The Robinson that faced Fullmer and Basilio is a different fighter.

Hookie: you certainly put Robinson's career in the right perspective.A prime Robinson was the best who has ever boxed.The Robinson of the Basilio and Fullmer fights was not the prime Robinson.One point about Maxim: he insisted that Bob Foster was overrated. Maxim claimed that he would have beaten Foster.I believe that Foster would have defeated Maxim-where do you stand on this?

I once got to see clips of Sugar Ray Robinson blitzkreiging Sammy Angott before he won the Welterweight title.

My god, it wasn't even close. None of these guys today would stand a chance! Not a chance!

Remember that shit Roy Jones pulled against the Aussie bloke with his hands behind his back? Sugar Ray did it an entire round against the Lightweight champ while mauling him!

Forget those Middleweight title fights. He was in his late thirties, early forties.

Catch him in his welterweight heydays shutting out Kid Gavilan and the like.

Awesome, awesome, awesome!!!

Oh, I totally agree that he was even better at WW. The reason I mentioned some of MW bouts is because many people discredit him at MW. My point was basically, if you are going to rate him as a MW don't forget to look at his MW fights before he lost to Turpin as well as some of the bouts after he defeated Turpin. Max Kellerman discredits Robinson as a MW too often.

"Many people like to say that Robinson was never consistantly successful at MW."

BESIDES CARLOS MONZON, WHO ELSE BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT?

On 2002-03-31 06:27, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2002-03-29 06:09, Hookie wrote:
Oh, I totally agree that he was even better at WW. The reason I mentioned some of MW bouts is because many people discredit him at MW. My point was basically, if you are going to rate him as a MW don't forget to look at his MW fights before he lost to Turpin as well as some of the bouts after he defeated Turpin. Max Kellerman discredits Robinson as a MW too often.

People who discredit him as a middleweight don't know what the hell they're talking about. And I see it too often, here and in other forums.

Some idiots only judge him by his title fights, others by losses when well past his prime.

BTW, Robinson had fought just nine days before the first Turpin fight. No wonder he lost! He must've been exhausted!

People who discredit him as a middleweight don't know what the hell they're talking about.

And you do of course.
Robinson was a great fighter in the WW Division,but aside from Kid Gavilan,can you name any really great fighters from that division who were anywhere near their prime??
The WW division didn't become stacked with talent until the early 50s.


PUG

He was the best Welter of all time.

He was likely one of the best 5 MW's of all time.

Pretty damn good credentials at that weight class. I would rate only Monzon and Hagler above him at that weight class.

I suppose I'd have to see how did against Ruiz to know for sure....


Ok...I'm kidding on that last statement. But I just had to chime in on this thread....since it appears to be the very first comment posted to the CURRENT SCENE forum. Which made me laugh a bit. As I recall Robinson's career did end a bit before 2002. I have (at long last) moved it to it's proper forum....lol.

.... robinson's best fights against middleweight were before he won the title....when he was still a welter....

....much like ezzard charles against heavies when he was still a lightheavy...

Jaclem wrote:.... robinson's best fights against middleweight were before he won the title....when he was still a welter....

....much like ezzard charles against heavies when he was still a lightheavy...

agreed...

This thread was made even before YOU or I originally joined Jaclem. However, I was a part of this group in 2002, but like you I forgot one of my account names, and can't get back into my original one and must settle for my 2005 re-sign up name.

I see you have been able to locate your original password.....Hell I can't even remember my original moniker at this point, much less my old password.