BoxRec

I'm sure you've seen this post before, but I am just curious.

tyson KO 3 foreman and i stand by it

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:tyson KO 3 foreman and i stand by it

That would be peak Tyson vs the 57 year old Foreman of today, right?

I think The old Foreman and new Foreman would have beaten Tyson. Although Tyson would of had a better chance against a younger Foreman IMO.

old foreman would have been badly beaten by the peak mike tyson. the old foreman was losing to guys like axel shulz and alex stewart for crying out loud yet he beats a peak mike tyson?


tyson would landing at the old foreman at will for 12 rounds, foreman will not last that long, too think the old foreman beats a peak mike tyson is laughable. foreman didnt have power anymore outside of his knockout of moorer, he did not knock out any top 10 contenders.

i have no problem with people saying prime foreman beats tyson, but for someone too say old foreman beats a peak mike tyson is not thinking objectively!

but we are comparing there peaks


1973 foreman vs 1988 tyson

Ferroz, how can you say Tyson has a better chance against a younger Foreman??. That version in 1973 would have taken Tyson by early KO....The 45 yr old George would be KO'd by the 20 yr old Tyson. As good as George was in the late 80's and early 90's...he was nowhere near as devestating as the 70's version...it's simple really. The younger man was faster, stronger, and more mobile...it's nature really

walshb wrote:Ferroz, how can you say Tyson has a better chance against a younger Foreman??. That version in 1973 would have taken Tyson by early KO....The 45 yr old George would be KO'd by the 20 yr old Tyson. As good as George was in the late 80's and early 90's...he was nowhere near as devestating as the 70's version...it's simple really. The younger man was faster, stronger, and more mobile...it's nature really

I was just thinking that because It seems to me that the Old Foreman had a better chin than young Foreman and better stamina as well. Plus Tyson has always had trouble with big fighters. I think Foreman would have weathered the Tyson onslaught early clinched, leaned and Tired Tyson out.

The reason I didn't think young Foreman would have won was because of the Lyle fight. that's just my opinion.

Tyson would tear into George who would grab & hold & tire Tyson out.

I think after 3 or 4 rounds, Tyson would be spent & Foreman's huge strength would begin to tell.

He would KO Tyson in about 6 rounds.

The more I think about this matchup the more I'm sure Foreman wins it.
If comparing peak performance aspects. Any forward moving wrecking machine comes in second to a peak Foreman.

The only fighters to give Foreman trouble were those who could fight moving backwards. Peralta, Ali, Young. Tyson would do better than Frazier, might even pull off some Lyle'esqe moments but other than Zaire and the sorcery, confidence and mystical aspects that an Ali could produce, no other combination is going to get it done. I think Young just managed to capitalize on that and give Foreman enough "haunted" memories that he got Foreman to beat himself in that fight. And to give Young some credit he may not have needed the memories as it was just a style nightmare for Foreman.

In a battle of Knockdowns, Foreman will get up and continue, Tyson doesnt have as much of that "will to continue" in him. And Tyson is not going to "wear out" Foreman in the manner of a Young or Ali. He's not going to "smother" his power inside either, the way I see it.

And as far as Tyson moving backwards to use a "smart" strategy? I don't think so. Even if he thought of it I doubt he could execute it. Crazy as this sounds Chris Byrd might have a better chance than Tyson. It's just a matter of the superior wrecking machine to some degree.

Blocky, or anyone please give your "counter analysis" as I would very much like to hear the best counter arguements to my line of thinking here.

Forman did not have a chin to match Tyson's early atack's. Lyle had Forman hurt but looked very unskilled in that fight and couldnt manage to finish it. Tyson would have finished him. If you people compare Frazier with Tyson then you really have no clue.

Forman was as open as anyone that most part it looked silly. Frazier lost the fight cose he had nothing but hoock swarming ability as he did not move foward with he's hoocks or throw any combination's or any other punch for that matter.. but stand there and allowed opponent to retaliate. In the second fight Frazier could have win it but he was clearly affraid and not confident. He had Forman hurt even but couldnt follow up ... scared.

I don't understand why even put up this thread while 99 percent in that forum gonna praise the overrated division of the 60.. cose you all are from that time.

Who would have beaten Forman from 90's division: Chris Byrd, Golota(of the 96), Lennox Lewis, Bowe, Hollyfield, (90Tyson would have not 88 Tyson would have), Vitaly Klitschko, Roy Jones.

"I don't want any part of Foreman. He kills little guys"

A quote from Mike Tyson himself. And I would have to agree with him.

Tyson was none to eager to take on an over the hill Foreman when the fight could have theoretically been made.

Foreman was too slow and threw punches too wide for a fast and powerful fighter like Tyson who would have been all over "Frankenstein" before he knew what was happening and unlike Lyle...Tyson would have put him down for keeps. Tyson at his best just had too much speed, too much power, a lot better defense and too much heart for Foreman at his best.

I see Tyson having problems with Foreman if big George uses his jab. The way I see it going is Tyson moving to Foreman but eating jabs getting swelled up a little. When Tyson gets on the inside George pushes him away as he liked to do in order to give himself punching room. In about the 10th round I see Tyson stopped by an uppercut as he is coming in a little wild and frustrated. Just my opinion. One more thing Tyson would not have a prayer if he has Moe, Larry , and Curly in his corner like he did against Buster.

barry wrote:Foreman was too slow and threw punches too wide for a fast and powerful fighter like Tyson who would have been all over "Frankenstein" before he knew what was happening and unlike Lyle...Tyson would have put him down for keeps. Tyson at his best just had too much speed, too much power, a lot better defense and too much heart for Foreman at his best.

i agree


i must say, i am totally blown away by all the "mike getting worn down and knocked out late" comments. tyson in his prime had proven 12 round stamina. he could go 12 hard rounds. foreman on the other hand had no stamina in his prime and after 5 rounds, he was ready to be taken.



let me start by saying tyson was not joe frazier, let alone the 10lb overweight slower joe frazier.




must also say that anyone who thinks a 90s foreman(who lost to B level axel shulz, alex stewart robberies, and was shutout by tommy morrison) can beat a PEAK mike tyson is just out of there mind. the 90s foreman lost a lot of his power. tell me what top contender he knocked out besides glass jaw moorer?


prime for prime tyson KO 3 foreman


prime tyson vs 90s foreman? tyson KO 1 foreman

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

barry wrote:Foreman was too slow and threw punches too wide for a fast and powerful fighter like Tyson who would have been all over "Frankenstein" before he knew what was happening and unlike Lyle...Tyson would have put him down for keeps. Tyson at his best just had too much speed, too much power, a lot better defense and too much heart for Foreman at his best.

i agree


i must say, i am totally blown away by all the "mike getting worn down and knocked out late" comments. tyson in his prime had proven 12 round stamina. he could go 12 hard rounds. foreman on the other hand had no stamina in his prime and after 5 rounds, he was ready to be taken.



let me start by saying tyson was not joe frazier, let alone the 10lb overweight slower joe frazier.




must also say that anyone who thinks a 90s foreman(who lost to B level axel shulz, alex stewart robberies, and was shutout by tommy morrison) can beat a PEAK mike tyson is just out of there mind. the 90s foreman lost a lot of his power. tell me what top contender he knocked out besides glass jaw moorer?


prime for prime tyson KO 3 foreman


prime tyson vs 90s foreman? tyson KO 1 foreman

Brocky,

Who did Tyson go 12 hard rounds with in his prime?

Boneclutcher and/or Tucker? No way did either of those fights involve '12 hard rounds'.

Maybe you mean the 2nd Ruddock fight? Once again, it didn't look like 12 hard rounds to me.

12 hard rounds would be something like Holmes - Witherspoon. Which 12 round fight of Tyson's prime was any way like that?

BoxBuzz wrote:The more I think about this matchup the more I'm sure Foreman wins it.
If comparing peak performance aspects. Any forward moving wrecking machine comes in second to a peak Foreman.

The only fighters to give Foreman trouble were those who could fight moving backwards. Peralta, Ali, Young. Tyson would do better than Frazier, might even pull off some Lyle'esqe moments but other than Zaire and the sorcery, confidence and mystical aspects that an Ali could produce, no other combination is going to get it done. I think Young just managed to capitalize on that and give Foreman enough "haunted" memories that he got Foreman to beat himself in that fight. And to give Young some credit he may not have needed the memories as it was just a style nightmare for Foreman.

In a battle of Knockdowns, Foreman will get up and continue, Tyson doesnt have as much of that "will to continue" in him. And Tyson is not going to "wear out" Foreman in the manner of a Young or Ali. He's not going to "smother" his power inside either, the way I see it.

And as far as Tyson moving backwards to use a "smart" strategy? I don't think so. Even if he thought of it I doubt he could execute it. Crazy as this sounds Chris Byrd might have a better chance than Tyson. It's just a matter of the superior wrecking machine to some degree.

Blocky, or anyone please give your "counter analysis" as I would very much like to hear the best counter arguements to my line of thinking here.

If comparing peak performance aspects. Any forward moving wrecking machine comes in second to a peak Foreman.

past history proves this yes. even when michael moorer started to come in on old george, he lost. however the same can be said about tyson too. remember tyson was well past his best vs holyfield.

The only fighters to give Foreman trouble were those who could fight moving backwards. Peralta, Ali, Young. Tyson would do better than Frazier, might even pull off some Lyle'esqe moments but other than Zaire and the sorcery, confidence and mystical aspects that an Ali could produce, no other combination is going to get it done.

interesting theory


the reasons i know tyson would do better than frazier is

1. tyson was a better puncher than frazier and had faster handspeed, better combinations, and had two fisted KO power unlike frazier

2. tyson was bigger and stronger than frazier with better defense and tyson is less likely to get hit by big george. Tyson was also more unpredicatable in his defense and his combinations than joe.

i dont take too much on the lyle fight since foreman was clearly past his prime and much slower and rusty.

frazier-foreman, foreman left himself wide open many times and frazier managed to connet hard a couple times but didnt have the two fisted power to totally threaten george and back him off. in fact george even said "i had no fear of his right hand whastover." not to mention IMO frazier was slower and not the same fighter he once was. he was 10lb overweight. tyson on the other hand in a slugout like that with foreman would have capitalized on foremans flaws. he also would have beat foreman to the punch ever time. remember tyson had KO power in both hands and iincredible handspeed. foremans wide loops will be beaten to the punch by short inside punches by tyson and foreman will take a big beating.

- also u might take note that tyson even though 5'11, was 220lb. bigger than foreman, and bigger than all the other swarmers.

- one thing tyson will have to be careful on is foremans uppercuts which were deadly. tyson even in his peak got hit with some hard uppercuts (tucker, bruno) and foreman loved to unload uppercuts on shorter guys like tyson. however tyson had superior defense, and I see tyson being able to manage to avoid them and he will be countering with blistering combinations to foremans face and foreman wont even know what hit him. foreman will be on the defense most of the fight, because he will be trying to protect himself from tysons combinations and counterpunches.

In a battle of Knockdowns, Foreman will get up and continue, Tyson doesnt have as much of that "will to continue" in him. And Tyson is not going to "wear out" Foreman in the manner of a Young or Ali. He's not going to "smother" his power inside either, the way I see it.

tyson has just as much "will" in him as foreman does. arnt we forgetting foreman getting knocked out by ali? when did foreman show one ounce of "will to continue" in that fight? tyson doesnt need to wear foreman out. tyson simply needs to let his hands go and he will finish foreman. tyson was the better puncher than foreman. u dont need to be a boxing expert to realize that. just watch film, tyson throws shorter punches, has much faster handspeed, throws better more unpredictable combinations, better body puncher, better two fisted attack, hits just as hard as foreman, has more snap on his punches.

And as far as Tyson moving backwards to use a "smart" strategy? I don't think so. Even if he thought of it I doubt he could execute it. Crazy as this sounds Chris Byrd might have a better chance than Tyson. It's just a matter of the superior wrecking machine to some degree.

in most swarmer cases, they will lose to foreman. however, tyson is an exception. because tyson possesed a better offense than foreman, and just as good a defense as bryd. tyson does not need to move backwards, tyson is the superior fighter to foreman offensively and if tyson lets his hands go, he will knock out george.


I also dont think boxers matchup well vs foreman as people think. a prime foreman cut off the ring very well. he was able to cut if off easily on ali. ali couldnt run from him. u have to understand ali didnt beat foreman by outboxing him, he beat foreman by tiring foreman out and then finishing him off. ali didnt dance around and outbox him. u couldnt do that to foreman, he cut off the ring to well. throw away the jimmy young fight, foreman was well past his best and dehydrated. so if larry holmes thinks he is jsut gonna show up and have a easy night outboxing foreman for a distance he is badly mistaken. hes going to have to battle foreman hard on the inside because foreman will cut off the ring vs larry like he did vs norton, ali.

one thing I will never understand is why tyson gets so much critism about his heart. when did he ever show in his prime he didnt have heart? if u want to judge tyson in the holyfield fights, than fine. but make sure u judge louis on the charles fight, liston on the martin fight, dempsey on the tunney fights, holyfield on the ruiz fights, foreman on the young fight, etc. all these guys were clearly well past there primes, and so was tyson. even still, tyson not only showed heart in the holyfield fight in taking a beating, but showed a great chin refusing to fall after recieving horrible punishment in the 10th by evander.


One thing i dont understand is people who rank liston or foreman high but not tyson because he doesnt have any heart.


when did liston prove he had heart in his prime? in fact tyson proved he had more heart in his prime.

A. when liston faced his first struggle against ali, he quit on his stool. when tyson faced his first struggle vs douglas, tyson still took heavy punishment and even managed to nearly knock out douglas. douglas was very very close to being stopped and if the round hadnt ended he cetainly would have been. not too mention the long count. now if douglas had been knocked out right there, we would right now be talking about tysons heroic come from behind KO of douglas and how much heart he had. yet he never quit on his stool, nor mysteriosely went down from a phantom punch then quit. yet people still harp on tyson about no heart.

even well well past his prime, tyson showed incredible heart in taking a huge beating from lennox and finally getting stopped in the 8th when he no longer could take it. what about getting outboxed for 4 rounds before dramatically knocking botha out?

what about stamina?

A. foreman throughout his career showed horrible stamina. 5 round stamina. well unlike george, tyson showed against tucker, bonecrusher, etc that not only could he go 12 rounds, but he could do 12 hard rounds and nearly shut people out in the process.

i think its clear in tyson had plenty of stamina and heart. in his prime he had proven 12 round stamina and he showed he could still take a beating without giving up and still fight back.


In my personal opinion, i think tyson gets underated by most on this forum. tyson gets critizied for things other champions that have done worse things like liston dont. I rate tyson 3rd greatest heavyweight of all time in terms of head to head. the only men i could see beating a peak mike tyson is ali and louis. but then again, most people will say im overating tyson but i stand by my accesment.


look at tyson at his peak, he completey wiped out the division as much as any heavyweight in history. in fact a case could be made he was even more dominating in his title reign than holmes and wiped out the division more than holmes did.

Tyson had NO heart, NO stamina, and NO chin (stopped five times).

Foreman will stop him early.

it's good to hear the truth once in a while

but also it's very good writing Brockton, you'l make a boxing journalist in notime. reading your columns is a pleasure.

DoubleM wrote:Tyson had NO heart, NO stamina, and NO chin (stopped five times).

Foreman will stop him early.

cultus wrote:

DoubleM wrote:Tyson had NO heart, NO stamina, and NO chin (stopped five times).

Foreman will stop him early.

Why are you laughing?

What I say is true. Marciano had NO skill and Louis had NO chin.

The Tyson who jabbed and moved his head , would have a better chance than the Tyson who loaded up on one shot at a time. That would be the Tyson who might be able to get past Foremans jab. Tyson eating that punch over the course of a few rounds is gonna swell up and eventually get hit with some big shots. The intangible here is would Tyson be able to adjust midfight if he could not just bang Foreman out of there. This would be one fight in which bullying and or dirty tactics may not help him. Big George was not easy to intimidate. He faltered a little bit mentally when he fought Ali because I think Ali psyched him out a little. But Tyson relied on more brute force to impose his will. My question is can Tyson adjust if he needs to? whoever is in his corner is gonna be important , I guess my main point is I dont see Tyson walking right thru a prime George Foreman and althouh I dont question his heart, I do wonder about his ability to adjust midfight if he cant impose his will. Some fighters are guys you dont just walk right thru. I feel that Foreman is one of those guys. No matter who is in the other corner. That is NOT to say he was invincible.

Brocky, if you think the 12 rounds that Tyson went with Boneclutcher were 'hard', I suggest you sit down with your Dad and have him take you through what is actually happening.



Here's a review of that joke of a fight:

Las Vegas, Nevada. 7 March 1987. In a ring still stained with blood from the desperately fought heavyweight match that preceded it, Mike Tyson, World Boxing Council champion, at twenty the youngest heavyweight titleholder in boxing history, brings the fight for unification of the title to James "Bonecrusher" Smith, World Boxing Association champion, at thirty-three an aging athlete, and, yet more telling, the only heavyweight titleholder in boxing history to have graduated from college—but Smith will have none of it. He clinches, he backs away, he walks away, he clinches again, hugging his frustrated and increasingly infuriated opponent like a drowning man hugging something—anything—that floats. Referee Mills Lane calls "Break!" repeatedly during the twelve long rounds of this very long fight but Smith seems not to hear; or, hearing, will not obey. For the most part his expression is blank, with the blankness of fear, a stark unmitigated fear without shame, yet shameful to witness. "Fight!" the crowd shouts. "Do something!" In the ringside seats close by me Smith's fellow boxers Trevor Berbick (former WBC heavyweight champion) and Edwin Rosario (WBA lightweight champion) are particularly vocal, as if in an agony of professional discomfort. For it seems that the superbly conditioned Smith, who had performed so dramatically only three months ago in Madison Square Garden, knocking out Tim Witherspoon in the first round of his WBA title defense, is now, suddenly, not a boxer: though in that elevated and garishly spotlighted ring with another man, contracted for $1 million to fight him, performing in front of a crowd of some 13,600 people in the Hilton's newly erected outdoor stadium, and how many millions of television viewers, he cannot or will not fight. His instinct is merely to survive to get through twelve rounds with no injuries more serious than a bleeding left eye and a bad swelling on the right side of his face; and to go back, professionally disgraced, to his wife, family, and plans for the future ("Being a champion opens lots of doors—I'd like to get a real estate license, maybe sell insurance") in Magnolia, North Carolina.