BoxRec

I want to know your opinion of Holmes as a fighter, where you place him among greatest HW's of all-time, etc, etc?

Here's my take on the subject:

Larry had 7 years @ the top, as champion. During his reign, there may have been other HW's who held a version of the HW title, but Larry was regarded as the man, the best in the HW division.

Holmes made 20 defenses of the title, second only to Joe Louis. From the time he beat Norton to become champ, he did not lose until 1985, the first Spinks fight. He was an active fighter, so the above in some achievement in itself!

IMO, Larry had the best jab in HW history; people may rank Ali's jab higher than his, but Holmes' potent jab was as sharp as Ali's and it was harder because Larry hit harder than Muhammad! I also feel Holmes had the best recouperative powers any HW has ever had; when he fought Tyson, he got hammered, but kept getting up! He had some chin!

Who has seen Holmes-Shavers fights? Shavers hits Holmes with a monumental right hand, Larry eyes close on impact of the punch, when Larry hits the canvas, he wakes up, gets up and goes on to defeat Shavers. We all know Shavers' main attribute as a fighter was his power, and he was lacking a great deal in other departments, but Larry still had to come back from the knockdown and win!

When placing fighters in a position of the all-time great fighter of their division, I always find it difficult and I sometimes do not stick the place/ranking/rating I give them initially.

However, IMO, I would have Larry in the top-5 HW's all-time. IMO, Larry Holmes at his peak was an absolute great HW, with a superb arsenal. Where would I place him in the top-5 and who over? I'm not going to get into that as it's too difficult!

Make no mistake, Larry Holmes was a great, great fighter!

Def. top 10, in my top 7 for sure. When you really look at the history you see that all of the claims that he ducked Page, Dokes etc. are really unfounded and BS.

Superb jab (only Listons was better in my opinion), great uppercut, combintations, stamina, heart, chin, recuperative powers . . .the guy in his early 40s schooled Ray Mercer at his best while Lewis in his prime struggled and in many people's opinion lost to an older heavier Mercer.

This was discussed in depth on this thread recently: http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

I'm shocked that this is even debatable for some people. Holmes should be considered an all time great beyond a shadow of a doubt.

dempseyfire wrote:Def. top 10, in my top 7 for sure. When you really look at the history you see that all of the claims that he ducked Page, Dokes etc. are really unfounded and BS.

Superb jab (only Listons was better in my opinion), great uppercut, combintations, stamina, heart, chin, recuperative powers . . .the guy in his early 40s schooled Ray Mercer at his best while Lewis in his prime struggled and in many people's opinion lost to an older heavier Mercer.

A good point where some people think that Holmes ducked people. I remember Dokes in an interview on ABC saying that he had no desire to unify the title. He basically admitted he was the one who did'nt want to fight Holmes.

Holmes should be 3rd in everyones list. Those who do not put Holmes in at least their top 10 dont know a thing about Larry Holmes or boxing.

Holmes should be 3rd in everyones list. Those who do not put Holmes in at least their top 10 dont know a thing about Larry Holmes or boxing.

Both on accomplishment and head to head I have Holmes at 4.

Holmes is the most underrated champion probably at any weight... to even question if he belongs in the top ten proves this... I put Holmes at 2 behind only Ali and before Johnson and Louis... you could argue about Johnson perhaps but I definately put Holmes above everyone else including Louis...

silkov wrote:Holmes is the most underrated champion probably at any weight... to even question if he belongs in the top ten proves this... I put Holmes at 2 behind only Ali and before Johnson and Louis... you could argue about Johnson perhaps but I definately put Holmes above everyone else including Louis...

I don't get how Holmes rates above Louis

Louis more title defenses, better overall competition, more rounded fighter

I got Holmes in the top 5. Great jab , an overall terrific Boxer/puncher. Showed he had a pair of stones when he got off the deck against Shavers too.

dempseyfire wrote:

silkov wrote:Holmes is the most underrated champion probably at any weight... to even question if he belongs in the top ten proves this... I put Holmes at 2 behind only Ali and before Johnson and Louis... you could argue about Johnson perhaps but I definately put Holmes above everyone else including Louis...

I don't get how Holmes rates above Louis

Louis more title defenses, better overall competition, more rounded fighter

i agree, louis defintley above holmes. I dont think holmes is underated anymore, he defintley is getting his due. i rate holmes top 5 and I notice most other people do. but the clear top 2 are ali and louis IMO. I think ur overating holmes by putting him at 2 and saying hes the most underated fighter out of any weight.

Decagon wrote:I personally rank Louis above Holmes (#2 and #3, respectively), but here are some reasons for ranking either above the other:

For Louis:

• More defenses
• Beat more champions
• Incredible combination punching
• Convincingly won rematches against Walcott and Schmelling
• Icon of black culture and of boxing
• Didn't lose to Conn despite poor performance (which I don't think was that bad)
• Great offensive fighter
• One-punch power

Against Louis:

• Knocked out by Schmelling
• Outboxed by Conn
• Beat his best opposition before he won the title
• Had a HUGE stylistic problem with movers (Conn, Walcott)
• Didn't have a great chin, knockded down a lot
• Didn't have a great defense
• Virtually no defensive footwork
• Bum of the Month title defenses

For Holmes:

• Absolutely stunning jab
• Incredible recovery
• Very solid chin
• Solid defense
• 20 defenses is nothing to sneeze at
• Longevity
• Tall, long reach
• More modern footwork
• Record-tying 8 consecutive heavyweight title defenses by KO
• Until a heavyweight Marvin Hagler hits the scene, he holds a stylistic advantage over every fighter who is, was or will be; ecumenical boxer

Against Holmes:

• His best opponents were past their prime (Norton, Ali and even Shavers)
• The titles were split during his era
• Fairly weak competition
• Didn't give Witherspoon a rematch
• Didn't face Pinklon Thomas
• Followed and preceeded icons
• Again, Bum of the Month title defenses

decagon disagree on a couple things



- the best man louis beat was walcott, and that occured during his title reign, not before. schmeling, conn, nova, B baer were all during his title reign. he defintley beat his best comp during his title reign

- norton was still in his prime vs holmes, so was shavers. prove me wrong.


- louis had very solid defense, and louis had a good chin. I hate how people underate louis in these categories.

ya but look who put him down



235lb two ton tony galento- the man had a wicked left hook. he hit like a truck. his power rates way up there


6'7 237lb buddy baer - buddy also possed very good two fisted power. buddy is rated in the RINGS top 100 greatest punchers of all time. getting floored by buddy baer is not something to be shameful about



max schmeling- schmeling rated # 42 by rings gretest punches. schmeling was a very good puncher and posses a wicked right hand. still it took schmeling 12 rounds of right after right hand to finally put louis down. nat fleischer said after the fight "Louis at least answered the critics who said he couldn't take a punch. He took it, and how! He absorbed enough punishment to have laid low the average pugilist a half dozen times. Staggered time and again, he kept on his feet and fought back..."

check out schmelings fight with young stribling where schmeling knocks him out with one right hand.



jimmy braddock- ok this was unexusable but louis was simply off balance like in most of his knockdowns but this was only a flashknockdown. louis wasnt hurt.


jersey joe walcott- walcott rated 66th in RINGS top 100 greatest punchers list. walcott had very good two fisted power and knocked louis down 3 times in 2 fights with powerful sneaky right hands BUT louis got right back up each time.


rocky marciano- well rocky was one of the greatest heavyweight punches of all time


u have to realize in all of these knockdowns louis wasnt really hurt, he got right back up. and when u fight that many times and against good punches ur going to get caught at times. at least louis got back up.


u also should realize outside of braddock, louis was only floored by big punchers.

I rate Holmes in an elite top 4 of HW champs. Ali, Johnson, Louis and Holmes. After those 4 I think there's a bit of a gap.

Ezzard wrote:I rate Holmes in an elite top 4 of HW champs. Ali, Johnson, Louis and Holmes. After those 4 I think there's a bit of a gap.

I agree: -
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Johnson
5. Lewis
6 Foreman
7. Liston