BoxRec

Joe must rate as the best British heavy of all time if only he had got his head right,i`m sure he would have ruled the world for years.

tigerpomfret wrote:Joe must rate as the best British heavy of all time if only he had got his head right,i`m sure he would have ruled the world for years.

Jesus! Joe Bugner was alright, but he was no Dr. Evil.

Get real, hed never be in Lennox Lewis' class even at his best, and not as good as Frank Bruno, in terms of British heavies. As for white heavies, Vitali Klitschko is miles better than Bugner

I would rate Jerry Quarry over Joe Bugner.

tigerpomfret wrote:Joe must rate as the best British heavy of all time if only he had got his head right,i`m sure he would have ruled the world for years.

If Bugner was so good why did an ancient Henry Cooper who, according to you couldn't fight, or take a punch, still manage to go the distance in a very close fight against the much bigger and younger man eh???....

Decagon wrote:That's a difference of opinion. In general, I don't rank fighters based on fights they clearly lost, no matter how good they looked against a top guy.

Why not?... doesn't the fact that Bugner went the distance with both Ali and Frazier while Quarry was stopped twice by them both tell you something?...

Quarry would have whupped Bugner. Bugner fight with Ali was excruciantingly boring and his one good night with a past it Frazier he still lost. Quarry went toe to toe with a prime Frazier and had his moments.

Out of english HWs, I'd rate Tommy Farr and Lennox Lewis over Bugner.

dempseyfire wrote:Quarry would have whupped Bugner. Bugner fight with Ali was excruciantingly boring and his one good night with a past it Frazier he still lost. Quarry went toe to toe with a prime Frazier and had his moments.

Out of english HWs, I'd rate Tommy Farr and Lennox Lewis over Bugner.

Did you watch Bugner vs Frazier?... Bugner often traded with him, shook him up a few times and closed his eye, and this was the past it Frazier who was still to beat Quarry again and fight in Manila.
Also Bugner gave Ali a very tough fight in their first bout, despite being cut early on.
Had Bugner met Quarry he would have had a decent chance of outboxing him... although it depends on what Bugner and what quarry showed up.
Quarry scored the bigger wins but theres no doubt that Bugner did better against both Ali and Frazier than Quarry....

I think that version of Bugner is better than Quarry

i cant believe people are picking bugner over quarry. there in a different class really. bugner fought a dreadfully boring fight with a out of shape well well past his prime ali. had bugner fought a prime frazier, frazier would have stopped him. honestly, who did bugner ever beat that says he could handle quarry?

I think this fight would be reminisant of quarry-lyle


-i rate henry cooper over bugner

mercman wrote:

who did bugner ever beat

Bonecrusher Smith, Greg Page, Quick Tillis, David Bey, Anders Eklund, Jimmy Ellis, Henry Cooper, Brian London, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster etc

jimmy ellis was way over the hill






quarry beat HOF floyd patterson(though i thought patterson won), earnie shavers, ron lyle, mac foster when this terror was undefeated 24-0(24), thad spencer, buster mathis, brian london, jack bodell, etc.

mercman wrote:

who did bugner ever beat

Bonecrusher Smith, Greg Page, Quick Tillis, David Bey, Anders Eklund, Jimmy Ellis, Henry Cooper, Brian London, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster etc

Some good names there albeit all on the slide when they met Aussie Joe, but that's boxing.

I think on his best night Bugner would be able to extend Quarry all the way but lose clearly on points. But he was so infuriatingly negative in many big fights. He could have won that fight against Lyle if he'd put his mind to it. His title "effort" against a fading Ali was unusual; his remarks after the fight seemed to suggest going the distance was his only goal. Strange guy in many way.

Still, I can't see Quarry being able to stop Bugner. I think he'd outpoint any version that turned up but I doubt he'd have him in any trouble. After his disastrous start to the pro game, very few could hurt him. I recently saw the Shavers fight for the first time ever. That's the only time until he became an old codger that I've seen Bugner hurt and dropped. And he still got up and fiddled his way out of trouble before being stopped on a badly cut eye.

Quarry is just way overrated! He was a pretty solid heavyweight who was never able to rise to that last top level. Sure he had to face Ali and Frazier, but he also faced a smaller, not as strong Jimmy Ellis and was not able to rise to the occasion. He was an icon because he was a white fighter who could actually fight a bit and he scored a couple of really nice looking wins against a few other vastly overrated fighters, which some now look at like he was taking down modern day golaiths, which is far, far from fact. Bugner would have just as good a chance of beating Quarry as Quarry would have beating Bugner. Bugner was certainly a lot bigger than Quarry and off the top of my head I cannot really recall when Quarry had any great success against a bigger fighter!

I cannot really recall when Quarry had any great success against a bigger fighter!

quarry wide UD over 6'4 220lb ron lyle

..tony doyle. earnie shaver and mac foster were all bigger than quarry.

silkov wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Quarry would have whupped Bugner. Bugner fight with Ali was excruciantingly boring and his one good night with a past it Frazier he still lost. Quarry went toe to toe with a prime Frazier and had his moments.

Out of english HWs, I'd rate Tommy Farr and Lennox Lewis over Bugner.

Did you watch Bugner vs Frazier?... Bugner often traded with him, shook him up a few times and closed his eye, and this was the past it Frazier who was still to beat Quarry again and fight in Manila.
Also Bugner gave Ali a very tough fight in their first bout, despite being cut early on.
Had Bugner met Quarry he would have had a decent chance of outboxing him... although it depends on what Bugner and what quarry showed up.
Quarry scored the bigger wins but theres no doubt that Bugner did better against both Ali and Frazier than Quarry....

Bugner did look good vs Frazier but the Frazier of Manilla, while still an excellent fighter, is not in the class of the Frazier of the late 60s and the first Ali fight. Just watch the film. Much faster, mobile fighter in his prime then when he fought Quarry the 2nd time and Bugner. And the first Quarry fight is just an example of a fighter getting cut in the 3rd round-boom fight stopped. Nothing shown much there cept Ali could still punch sharp.

I always class Bugner as TOPCLASS,only when his head was right,the only reason he was hated in britian was he could outbox anyone,and made sure he did`nt get hit,but saying that,Quarry was a great fighter,if only he had a decent coach,and not his oldman,quarry should have been champion,when ali took on a young quarry in their 1st fight ,ali came out blazing,but by the 2nd round,quarry had him in all sorts of trouble,ali luckily cut quarries eyes,otherwise quarry would have won that night.It seems a shame quarry fought the wrong fight many times,like mixing it with frasier,when he could easily boxed frasers head off,being suberp technically,and the best counter puncherof that era.
As for that cheapshot about overated cooper,the reason bugner had his hand held up,was simply because he was a young guy going places,unlike cooper,who refused EVERY fight in america,REFUSED ever fight against the big hitting yanks,and conned the british public with the usual boring old fights against bodell and the like.
Cooper was lucky to have the london press to bum him up,all the other british fighters had to fight anyone they could to make money,but cooper `s manager was superb at conning the public,as you see in the poor fighters cooper fought for good money.

With the exception of Mac Foster, who was 6' 3" none were the 6' 4", 215 pound heavyweight that Bugner was. Does that mean Bugner would win...no, but like I said, he would have just as much a chance of beating Quarry as Quarry would of beating him. Quarry certainly would not be knocking Bugner out and not being able to do so then he would have a hell of a difficult time trying to out-point Bugner. I'd give Quarry the edge because he fought the better competition, but it would be a close bout regardless.

From what I read Bugner never felt the same after that guy he fought died.

barry wrote:With the exception of Mac Foster, who was 6' 3" none were the 6' 4", 215 pound heavyweight that Bugner was. Does that mean Bugner would win...no, but like I said, he would have just as much a chance of beating Quarry as Quarry would of beating him. Quarry certainly would not be knocking Bugner out and not being able to do so then he would have a hell of a difficult time trying to out-point Bugner. I'd give Quarry the edge because he fought the better competition, but it would be a close bout regardless.

How about the 6'3, 220 lb Ron Lyle, who past his prime outpointed Bugner and according to Joe himself "gave me the worst beating I ever took" . . .I don't see Bugner being able to do anything that Lyle at his best couldn't do better . . .Quarry was a master at slipping the jab and he beat taller guys with longer arms by constantly moving his head and wacking combinations to the midsection. His stamina in his prime was also amazing, plus he could take a great shot and could hit himself. He probably won't get a knockout but I see Quarry solidly outworking Bugner in a mostly on-sided fight.

dempseyfire wrote:

barry wrote:With the exception of Mac Foster, who was 6' 3" none were the 6' 4", 215 pound heavyweight that Bugner was. Does that mean Bugner would win...no, but like I said, he would have just as much a chance of beating Quarry as Quarry would of beating him. Quarry certainly would not be knocking Bugner out and not being able to do so then he would have a hell of a difficult time trying to out-point Bugner. I'd give Quarry the edge because he fought the better competition, but it would be a close bout regardless.

How about the 6'3, 220 lb Ron Lyle, who past his prime outpointed Bugner and according to Joe himself "gave me the worst beating I ever took" . . .I don't see Bugner being able to do anything that Lyle at his best couldn't do better . . .Quarry was a master at slipping the jab and he beat taller guys with longer arms by constantly moving his head and wacking combinations to the midsection. His stamina in his prime was also amazing, plus he could take a great shot and could hit himself. He probably won't get a knockout but I see Quarry solidly outworking Bugner in a mostly on-sided fight.

But Bug and Lyle had different styles, Lyle was more a brawler while Bug was a quick moving boxer. Quarry would have been able to outbox Bugner the way he did with Lyle because Joe was much faster...

silkov wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

barry wrote:With the exception of Mac Foster, who was 6' 3" none were the 6' 4", 215 pound heavyweight that Bugner was. Does that mean Bugner would win...no, but like I said, he would have just as much a chance of beating Quarry as Quarry would of beating him. Quarry certainly would not be knocking Bugner out and not being able to do so then he would have a hell of a difficult time trying to out-point Bugner. I'd give Quarry the edge because he fought the better competition, but it would be a close bout regardless.

How about the 6'3, 220 lb Ron Lyle, who past his prime outpointed Bugner and according to Joe himself "gave me the worst beating I ever took" . . .I don't see Bugner being able to do anything that Lyle at his best couldn't do better . . .Quarry was a master at slipping the jab and he beat taller guys with longer arms by constantly moving his head and wacking combinations to the midsection. His stamina in his prime was also amazing, plus he could take a great shot and could hit himself. He probably won't get a knockout but I see Quarry solidly outworking Bugner in a mostly on-sided fight.

But Bug and Lyle had different styles, Lyle was more a brawler while Bug was a quick moving boxer. Quarry would have been able to outbox Bugner the way he did with Lyle because Joe was much faster...

Thad Spencer was a quick moving boxer, too. Quicker than Bugner, but it didn't help him against Quarry.

mercman wrote:

who did bugner ever beat

Bonecrusher Smith, Greg Page, Quick Tillis, David Bey, Anders Eklund, Jimmy Ellis, Henry Cooper, Brian London, Chuck Wepner, Mac Foster etc

Some good wins

Nero3000 wrote:

silkov wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: How about the 6'3, 220 lb Ron Lyle, who past his prime outpointed Bugner and according to Joe himself "gave me the worst beating I ever took" . . .I don't see Bugner being able to do anything that Lyle at his best couldn't do better . . .Quarry was a master at slipping the jab and he beat taller guys with longer arms by constantly moving his head and wacking combinations to the midsection. His stamina in his prime was also amazing, plus he could take a great shot and could hit himself. He probably won't get a knockout but I see Quarry solidly outworking Bugner in a mostly on-sided fight.

But Bug and Lyle had different styles, Lyle was more a brawler while Bug was a quick moving boxer. Quarry would have been able to outbox Bugner the way he did with Lyle because Joe was much faster...

Thad Spencer was a quick moving boxer, too. Quicker than Bugner, but it didn't help him against Quarry.

Spencer wasn't a top ten contender on and off for the best part of 15 years, Bugner was... I think Bugner was quite a bit better than Spencer, look at their records. I'm not saying Bugner would have definately beaten Quarry, but I think he would have had a good shout against him....

Decagon wrote:Nice edit job, Razor.

It was either that or leaving the 'I thought Bugner beat Lyle' thing I wrote which i found out he lost.

Bugner had his ass kicked in 71 by Ol Enri. How the hell is he going to beat Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky or countless others. He is neither the best since or before. He might beat Ingo, if he got by the first 5 rounds. Are you related to this guy ?