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Buncey riles Mr Allegedly
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 10:33
by tonyevs
Mr Allegedly had a tantrum again because Steve Bunce criticises Khans opposition
,
In the NOTW today he goes off on one
,
He throws the smoke screen of why Khan won’t fight for the world title quite yet
….as if we expect him to fight for it yet :P ….we just want him to fight decent opposition that his talent requires.
As usual he slips in the names of past champions and gives a comparison,
He adds Ray Leonard was 23yrs old when he won a world title…but that was within 2yrs after turning pro..and against an excellent `real` world champion.
Alan Minter he adds was 24yrs old when he won the British title, let us see if khan can better the 3yrs it took Alan then…and then equal Minters further achievements.
And he also chucked in John H. Stracey`s name with the, it took him till he was 22yrs old and in his 28th fight before won a British title….but Stacey like Minter did this after 3yrs pro and also the fact that Mr Allegedly is choosing to over look, that they both fought boxers their own weight
…not the fighters a weight division or 2 below.
He does hate critism, but after the shit he flung at Audley (which was justified) he can expect nothing less when he does the same, he may choose to think Khan is not headlining these shows but everybody else knows differently.
Good one Buncey
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 10:42
by nickd
Warren is so full of shit, he criticised Harrison's opposition at every opportunity hardly a week went by in his NOTW colum without mentions of 'Fraudley' or 'Ordinary'. Its more than fair he gets the same criticism for what he is doing with Khan which is no different.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 16:19
by jamesmcdonnell
Well, no surprises here, it's not often that allegedly lets criticism slide off his back is it? Riled might as well be his middle name.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 16:43
by lvlarc
"Is it just a coincidence that Bunce works for the Beeb who made such a mess of Audley Harrison's career when he turned pro"
Same shit different day Mr Warren.
"Next up Khan fights Jackson Williams, who has won 12 of his fights and lost three. Jackson will be a different style and test for him"
Again same shit different day.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 17:03
by jamesmcdonnell
It's hardly Steve Bunce's fault Audley turned out to be a dissapointment, It's not like he was in charge of the network and as far as I am aware, he wasn't involved in the decision making process behind giving Audley a fat cheque.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 17:16
by Twinkle Toes
Although Frank Warrén is far from being a twat, he does a bloody good impression of being one.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 18:15
by tonyevs
After how many fights did Audley start getting the critism regarding his opposition?
I honestly cannot remember, but I would guess it was a little more than the 5 Amir has had...
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 18:50
by lirva33
In fairness, if Khan was on the beeb and Bunce was working for them, he'd be praising the opposition like there was no tomorrow.
he is nothing more than a prize A plum. As I proved by digging up the audley thread.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 19:24
by tonyevs
That may well be true.
But atleast he saying what alot here are saying.
There is too much bullshit in regards to Khans handspeed,khans accuracy and Khans power..he`s good but far from special...he sure isn`t no De La Hoya.....but if only
More critism will hopefully get Mr Allegedly making worthwhile fights for Amir, instead of just using Amir to fill out an arena with dumb types who believe the bull-shit their hearing on the TV.
Posted: 12 Feb 2006, 20:17
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Awaits boxingchats spin
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 05:29
by Old bones Ian
Steve Bunce does like to be the voice of concern, unfortunatly he never highlights these dangers of boxing until they have happened, i have to agree with Warren that Bunce never once said that the Khan match was a mismatch before the fight.
I do like some of what Bunce writes, and he is very keen for the sport of boxing, he does dwell on the dark side of the sport a bit to much sometimes though, but i guess that has to be reported as well.
I liked the interview he did with Kirkland Laing, as sad as it was. Although did he have to show Kirkland drinking from the can of strong lager, just a small critisism.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 06:57
by stujones
Can see the arguement of both here - I think Khan is doing just fine personally.... 3/4 fights down the line I might be thinking differently.
I do wander though would Bunce be so vocal if Khan was boxing on the BBC. When Audley signed that second contract with the Beeb - the criticism of his opponents stopped and Bunce was even calling him a world champion.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:05
by KO Artist
The only criticism I have is that the kid needs to be fighting guys who are natrually the same weight as him.
Apart from that they are doing a decent job with him
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:23
by nickd
tonyevs wrote:After how many fights did Audley start getting the critism regarding his opposition?
I honestly cannot remember, but I would guess it was a little more than the 5 Amir has had...
No, Warren was on his back from day 1 when he didn't sign with him.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:25
by nickd
KO Atrist wrote:The only criticism I have is that the kid needs to be fighting guys who are natrually the same weight as him.
Apart from that they are doing a decent job with him
I totally agree, but putting your guys in with fighters from the division below is almost Sports Network's trademark isn't it?
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:32
by Slapsie Maxie
Gawd, give the kid and SN a break. He has only just turned pro and had 5 fights. It is a bit early to be slagging him and his promoters off for not stepping in with a HOF'er yet.
He has a fairly decent schedule of fights ahead of him and, despite my fears that he is more style than substance, he is doing just fine by me. Fighting differing fighters with differing styles.
My concern will be when he is 34-0 and WBU champ and still fighting people a weight below
But surely no one would let that happen 8)
Slapsie
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:41
by nickd
Slapsie Maxie wrote:Gawd, give the kid and SN a break. He has only just turned pro and had 5 fights. It is a bit early to be slagging him and his promoters off for not stepping in with a HOF'er yet.
He has a fairly decent schedule of fights ahead of him and, despite my fears that he is more style than substance, he is doing just fine by me. Fighting differing fighters with differing styles.
My concern will be when he is 34-0 and WBU champ and still fighting people a weight below
But surely no one would let that happen 8)
Slapsie
Nobody wants him fighting championship bouts already, but 60 second blowouts against superfeatherweights are teaching him nothing.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:46
by jamesmcdonnell
I think they are doing the right thing with Khan, letting him learn his trade as he matures physically and becomes a man. He is obviously still growing in physique and he looks much stronger already than he was as an amateur.
Of course if he was Mexican, he would already have been in life and death struggles by now and would probably have had 20 odd fights by the age of 20. However, this isn't Mexico.
As long as they begin stepping him up by the time he gets to his 15th fight I will be happy, he's still got much to learn about professional boxing, his talents are precocious, but he is not an all round fighter yet.
What might be difficult with Khan is finding people who can extend him without being a massive risk, his speed of hand and accuracy are likely going to mean that most B class and below opponents will be whacked out of there pretty easily.
allegedly is a cautious man, that is well established, and it may be some time before Khan is allowed off the leash, however, looking at what he did with Hatton, and Naseem, who are we to say that his way isn't the right way? It might be frustrating, but how often does Britain get a major talent that can truly compete on the world stage, and how many more would we have had if they had been moved more carefully?
Matchmaking is a bit of an artform, and in addition to entertaining the paying public, the ultimate responsibility of a manager is to do the right thing by the fighter, not an easy job today.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 07:49
by nickd
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think they are doing the right thing with Khan, letting him learn his trade as he matures physically and becomes a man. He is obviously still growing in physique and he looks much stronger already than he was as an amateur.
Of course if he was Mexican, he would already have been in life and death struggles by now and would probably have had 20 odd fights by the age of 20. However, this isn't Mexico.
As long as they begin stepping him up by the time he gets to his 15th fight I will be happy, he's still got much to learn about professional boxing, his talents are precocious, but he is not an all round fighter yet.
What might be difficult with Khan is finding people who can extend him without being a massive risk, his speed of hand and accuracy are likely going to mean that most B class and below opponents will be whacked out of there pretty easily.
allegedly allegedly is a cautious man, that is well established, and it may be some time before Khan is allowed off the leash, however, looking at what he did with Hatton, and Naseem, who are we to say that his way isn't the right way? It might be frustrating, but how often does Britain get a major talent that can truly compete on the world stage, and how many more would we have had if they had been moved more carefully?
Matchmaking is a bit of an artform, and in addition to entertaining the paying public, the ultimate responsibility of a manager is to do the right thing by the fighter, not an easy job today.
I have no problem with what you are suggesting, but is it worthy of a prime time slot on ITV? I dont think so. Warren tore into Harrison constantly for topping bills and being on terrestrial TV in mismatches yet he does the same thing with Khan and its acceptable? The man is a prize penis.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 08:06
by Slapsie Maxie
A prime time slot is worthy if a shrewd promoter can persuade ITV that a fight can draw viewers and ad revenue. If it does not deliver on one or either of those, then the TV company will pull out. Neither party is doing it for love of the sport or any other altruistic reason ( even if they are fight fans )
Likewise, FW's main and only concern at this point should be and , quite rightly, is protecting his investment. He will have risked a lot signing Khan. Not just on his contract but all the bits that go with it. He will build up the fighter at each level until he can see fit to put him in with a champion whose name can draw the crowds and TV revenue, but who is beatable through age, decline or any other reason. That's what promoters do.
Punters can vote with their wallets too and, if they begin to see the promoter/fighter taking the piss, the collective disatisfaction can force the promoter to make the bigger fight to avoid diminishing returns. hence, JC/Lacy and RH/KT.
Khan is right at the beginning of this process. right now, FW is doing what any half decent promoter would do. Teaching his charge, making him marketable ( unbeaten ) and making money. Khan is just doing what he is told as he should at this stage of a nacent career.
In another 10/15 fights, ask me again and I will see if I feel the same. If he is still fighting the same level, the punters and TV will both be pretty vociferous.
Slapsie
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 08:07
by jamesmcdonnell
Well yes, there is a hypocricy there which is obvious, as you correcntly point out, Warren's bile and vitriol was related to the fact that Audley stuck two fingers up at SN and the established order and sought to go it alone, which turned out as it happens to be a disaster.
Of course, I am certain that ITV are pretty adamant that Khan is the big noise on their fight cards, as he's without a doubt the biggest draw in Warren's stable in terms of terrestrial audiences. So to an extent he doesn't have a whole lot of choice, especially as Hatton left the fold as soon as the deal was announced.
TV companies are the ones providing most of the money these days in boxing, and so they have an almighty say in the delivery of product, the promoter puts the show together, but they are going to have to get approval from the TV company as they are paying a substantial whack of the money involved and without TV boxing is a sport which struggles to pay it's way, certainly where big name fighters are concerned.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 08:13
by nickd
I agree. But judging by the choice of opponents for Khan to date it seems to me they are more interested in boosting his KO percentage than giving him the rounds he needs to maximise his learning. Only 5 fight I know but he is yet to fight a guy from his own weight division.
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 09:47
by silkov
I'd have no problem with Khan if he'd only fight people of his own weight!!... noone expects him to be fighting for a title yet but if he isn't ready to fight even journeymen of his own size yet, you must wonder about the wiseness of the decision for him to turn pro so early.... as he's going to be learning next to nothing with the fights he's having so far.
Also who wants to bet that when he does fight for a 'world title' it'll be of the bloody WBU vacant variety againt TBC!!!.... :x :x :x (who'll probably be moving up in weight!!)
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 10:08
by tonyevs
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think they are doing the right thing with Khan, letting him learn his trade as he matures physically and becomes a man. He is obviously still growing in physique and he looks much stronger already than he was as an amateur..
For me Khan already looks very mature for his age physically, and as for looking stronger now than what he did as an amateur...maybe that is to do with him fighting the same weight fighters as an amateur.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Of course if he was Mexican, he would already have been in life and death struggles by now and would probably have had 20 odd fights by the age of 20. However, this isn't Mexico..
But you cannot dispute theres is a tried and tested way, how many truly great fighters have they had in the last 20yrs and how many have we had to compare?
jamesmcdonnell wrote:As long as they begin stepping him up by the time he gets to his 15th fight I will be happy, he's still got much to learn about professional boxing, his talents are precocious, but he is not an all round fighter yet..
The point is he should be learning now, instead of just blowing away the opposition, after 15 fights the public will expect him to achieve something, but those 15 fights will have taught him nothing
jamesmcdonnell wrote:What might be difficult with Khan is finding people who can extend him without being a massive risk, his speed of hand and accuracy are likely going to mean that most B class and below opponents will be whacked out of there pretty easily..
Khan is not a dynamite hitter, fighters at lt-welter would extend him...but not at s-feather.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:allegedly allegedly is a cautious man, that is well established, and it may be some time before Khan is allowed off the leash, however, looking at what he did with Hatton, and Naseem, who are we to say that his way isn't the right way? It might be frustrating, but how often does Britain get a major talent that can truly compete on the world stage, and how many more would we have had if they had been moved more carefully?.
Naz fell short of his own goals, Hatton has only now arrived...let us see how long he lasts there.
Which other British boxers would have benefitted being moved even more cautiously?
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Matchmaking is a bit of an artform, and in addition to entertaining the paying public, the ultimate responsibility of a manager is to do the right thing by the fighter, not an easy job today.
Agree
Posted: 13 Feb 2006, 10:12
by nickd
Guys its no coincidence that Sports Network have only produced one truly world class fighter in recent memory - Hatton and almost a couple of others - Harrison/Calzaghe. While I can understand the reasoning of protecting your fighter (and your investment) there has to be a balance between that and looking to the future so your fighter is well prepared when the true tests come. In Warren's defence it does appear the balance is swinging back a little towards competitive fights but there's still a lot of room for improvement.