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it seemed outside of john henry lewis and jersey joe walcott, all of louis title defenses were agaisnt white fighters. there were some talented top heavyweight black contenders like lem franklin, jimmy bivins, elmer ray, turkey thompson but they never got title shots. was it just a coincidence that most of louis title defenses were vs white fighters or were the top black fighters denied shots?


i imagine if there had been no title freeze, louis most likely would have fought one of them most likely bivins during 43-45.


was a turkey thompson, jimmy bivins, lem franklin, elmer ray fight ever considered?

- bivins did fight joe but when joe was well past his best and jimmy was also declining

- ray actually fought louis in an exhibition in 1948 and i guess ray got smart and hit louis with a good one angering louis and he louis then knocked ray out cold! thats pretty amazing considering elmer ray was a great heavy

- from some of the reports i read, i think a louis-thompson fight was almost made






off the top of my head......... before joe louis fought john henry lewis, wanst that last heavyweight title fight between two black men date all the way back to jack johnson vs battling jim johnson?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:it seemed outside of john henry lewis and jersey joe walcott, all of louis title defenses were agaisnt white fighters. there were some talented top heavyweight black contenders like lem franklin, jimmy bivins, elmer ray, turkey thompson but they never got title shots. was it just a coincidence that most of louis title defenses were vs white fighters or were the top black fighters denied shots?


i imagine if there had been no title freeze, louis most likely would have fought one of them most likely bivins during 43-45.


was a turkey thompson, jimmy bivins, lem franklin, elmer ray fight ever considered?

- bivins did fight joe but when joe was well past his best and jimmy was also declining

- ray actually fought louis in an exhibition in 1948 and i guess ray got smart and hit louis with a good one angering louis and he louis then knocked ray out cold! thats pretty amazing considering elmer ray was a great heavy

- from some of the reports i read, i think a louis-thompson fight was almost made






off the top of my head......... before joe louis fought john henry lewis, wanst that last heavyweight title fight between two black men date all the way back to jack johnson vs battling jim johnson?

They were denied shots. It isn't because Louis was afraid to fight them, but Louis and his handlers knew that he had to keep a good image with white America, which still ruled the country at that point. There was a great documentary on Louis that spoke about how Louis' image was handled for the public. Like how he was supposed to stay very solemn, not disrespect opponents, etc etc. Anyone remember what doc that was?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:it seemed outside of john henry lewis and jersey joe walcott, all of louis title defenses were agaisnt white fighters. there were some talented top heavyweight black contenders like lem franklin, jimmy bivins, elmer ray, turkey thompson but they never got title shots. was it just a coincidence that most of louis title defenses were vs white fighters or were the top black fighters denied shots?

BB49 I basically asked the same question nearly two years ago mate and got some interesting feedback.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17279

Man!! I can't believe that was nearly TWO years ago.

Someone mentioned that Willie Davis and Roscoe Toles were the only black fighters Joe Louis fought before becoming champion, but weren't Natie Brown and Eddie Simms also black ?

Seamus wrote:Someone mentioned that Willie Davis and Roscoe Toles were the only black fighters Joe Louis fought before becoming champion, but weren't Natie Brown and Eddie Simms also black ?

http://www.pugilistica.com/BoxingArchiv ... gInGym.JPG


eddie simms doesnt look black to me

I think much of the public didn't want to see two black fighters contesting the heavyweight title... the fights between Walcott and Charles weren't looked on very favourably... its hard to believe the predjudice that coloured people suffered in America in that time... in a book I have Ray Arcel tells about a time when he was training Ezzard Charles and he had to pay the hotel managers extra to allow Charles to stay in the same hotel as him... also Charles had to agree to take all his meals in his room rather than with the rest of the guests in the dinning room...
and this is when Charles was heavyweight champion!...

Silkov, Is that from the book In The Corner? Real good read isnt it?

expug wrote:Silkov, Is that from the book In The Corner? Real good read isnt it?

I got it from a book called 'Ringmasters' which tells the story of about 8 or so great trainers of which Arcel is one. I have a simular book called 'Corner men' which is also on famous trainers, including Arcel, haven't read that yet though... probably some of the storys overlap, looks a great read though.
Pete Hellers 'iN THIS CORNER' is quite a enlightenment on the trials and tribulations that black fighters used to have to go through...
.....a lot of these books seem to mention corners!!...

Apparently Natie Brown was also white. Here's a photo of him after he became a pro wrestler http://www.wrestleprints.com/catalog/po ... b3fd43298d

I think Louis in his biography(or somewhere) said that two black fighters wouldn't draw well,that doesn't mean he should not have fought them,it also doesn't mean he wouldn't have beaten them,I'm sure he would have.Louis also said after Johnson's antics he had to be very carefull about how he was perceived by white America,another thing he said I found funny was that he was just as cocky as Ali but he couldn't show it.