theone wrote: marciano wasnt patterson, he isnt just going to roll over in 2 rounds.
Silly statement. First of all Patterson didnt roll over, he was run over. I dont know if your hinting at a lack of heart on Pattersons part, but Floyd had as much heart if not more than the rock. Patterson didnt have to fight Liston but chose to, aleinating some of the people closest to him. He did it because it was the right thing to do. And even after that one sided thrashing, he fought him again, probably knowing he had little chance of reverising the results.
patterson has a ton of heart and is the most classiest man ever. however, he entered the liston fight knowing he was going to lose. he simply froze up and was scared to death.
Patterson was scared, forgot what he was doing and went into slugger mode vs liston. he went straight into liston like a idiot. patterson trying to fight liston that way is like suicide! patterson should have boxed, hes a good classical boxer.
Marshell was not that light when he fough Liston, you know that. Marshell was also an experienced veteran and Liston hadnt even had 10 fights when he fought Marshall the first two times. I dont know anything abvout the Whitehusrt fights except that Liston one them both so I wont comment. So he took some good shots from Williams...whats the point?
marshall was officially 181lb.
my point here is not to degrade listons chin, but its too show you that he can be floored and can be hurt. So i would assume an elite puncher like marciano defintley poses a big threat to liston also. liston also has to be very cautious and weary of marcianos power, because marciano is very capable of knocking him out. even if u dont think marciano can possibly win, u have to give him that punchers chance at least.
An elite puncher who was bigger stronger a much better boxer and had a staggering 17 inch reach advantage on him.
its not that simple. just because of the phyisical limitations, its not like it will be a cakewalk for liston. marciano throughout his career gave up big physical advantages. he never gave up a guy with physical advantages with the skills of liston, but just because he didnt doesnt mean we automatically assume he cant.
listons 6'1 212lb
marcianos 5'11 185lb
its not like liston towers over marciano. listons reach advantage however will pose a big problem for marciano. marciano is strongest enough to hold his own with liston. just because liston is bigger doesnt make him stronger. marciano was one of the strongest p4p guys of all time and was stronger than many men listons size. i doubt listons much stronger than marciano at all. both charles and moore who fought many big strong men called 185lb marciano the strongest they ever fought. any man who got in the ring with marciano said he was so strong.
I think one of the biggest areas marciano is underated today is in the strength department. because he was only 185lb, people dont think he was as strong as some of those over 200lb men, which is far from the truth. people make such a big deal of marcianos stamina that it becomes overated sometimes, and they forget about other attributes like his strength.
the strength difference in this fight is minimal. besides, liston does not want to be using his size and strength on marciano and try to wear him out in the clinches. marciano was a monster in the clinches and inside fighting. listons plan would be to keep him at a distance or at mid range where he holds huge physical advantages over rock. the last thing sonny wants to do is let marciano get close where marcianos physical limitations will give him the advantage. rockys arms were so short, he had incredible leverage on inside.
- just remember, marciano made a living of giving up huge reach advantages his entire career but he the reach difference never seemed to be a problem. now granted, marciano never faced a man with listons reach WITH the skill of liston.
marciano has alot of physical attributes to go along with skill that he will have to overcome in this liston fight. marciano never fought a guy of listons size with the power, skill of liston. this will be very interesting to see if marciano can deal with it or not.
however one must look at the other side of things. liston also never faced anyone like marciano who will drain every ounce of energy and life from your body and bring your body and mind to a level beyond fatigue and quit. liston is unproven of winning a tough fight in the line of adversity. he never before went through a lot of adversity to win a fight . surviving one rounds of bombs from williams is not what i call winnig a tough fight. williams never even floored liston or kept up the pressure. im talking about a fight where he was in danger of losing and had to dig deep down and show what kind of champion he was. the only time liston was in that situation he quit. marciano brings to the table a combination of power, skill, stamina, heart liston has never seen before.
listons physical advantages make things easier for him, but wut happends if the fight enters the mid rounds, and then the late rounds? the later the fight goes, the more it favors rocky. what happens in the championship rounds if liston is tired and marciano is all over him throwing a million punches at once, will liston lose his focus and fall apart? will liston be able to handle that pressure and be able to win the fight at any part of the fight? rocky is going to really test sonny mentally. sonny in this fight will prove just how tough and how much heart he really has.
I also think the 51-52 slugger version of marciano matches up better with liston than the 54-55 swarmer accumaltive puncher he later became.
a much better boxer
well yes, but charles, walcott, and moore were 100x better boxers than marciano and rocky still beat them. in fact, all 3 were better classical boxers than liston. its listons skills combined his size and power that makes him more deadly than those 3 guys.
but just because liston is a better boxer doesnt mean he could outpoint rocky. rocky because of his unusual style was VERY hard to outpoint over 15. this is another area where i feel marciano is underated. many people because of marcianos lack of "classical boxing skills" think some of the better heavies can outpoint him over 15. but people dont realize, marcianos combination of stamina, punchrate, workrate, power make him extremley hard to outpoint over 15.
against charles, he completley dominated the last 5 rounds which charles clinging for his life. only because charles had so much heart,stamina, and ring smarts was he able to last the distance. after 14 gruelling rounds, marciano in the 15th round of there fight threw nearly 100 punches! thats incredible! now imagine a fighter who was in that same situation charles was in. most dont have the experience, ring smarts, and condition charles had to survive . so can you only imagine a dead tired fighter trying to ward off 80-100 KO punches? no way most heavyweights(especially big ones) could survive marcianos combination of power, workrate, and punch rate in the championship rounds.
my point is, marciano is very hard to outpoint simply because he throws so many punches, is so aggresive, such a high workrate, and his punches hurt. i mean its very tough to win rounds against a guy like rock, especially in the late rounds.
walcott may have been outpointing marciano, but remember if u take away the 3 rounds marciano lost because of blindess, the scorecards are even.
liston proved against eddie machen how hard he is to outpoint. liston put up a good workrate and completey outboxed a masterboxer like eddie machen.
