BoxRec

Back in the mid-90's when Royce Gracie was ruling the UFC there was talk of matching him against Mike Tyson. It never got past the ballyhoo stage, but who do you think would have won such a match? The pick here is Gracie. Tyson's best chance would have been to catch Gracie with a good shot as he was coming in to close the gap, but the Gracies are masters at taking bigger and stronger people down and keeping them there. I have attended a couple of Gracie seminars and they are like boa constrictors. The more you struggle and fight, the tighter they tie you up. Furthermore, intimidation was a big part of Tyson's game and Royce Gracie would not have been afraid of him.

Any thoughts?

Kinda like when Tyson was supposed to face Bob Sapp, and later offers to face Rick Roufus....

I am kinda mixed on it. I saw Tyson come into the ring at a K-1 event in Japan and Sapp hit Tyson in the face, and it didn't phase Tyson and he was smiling.

When asked if Tyson would face Bob Sapp, Tyson said he would love to face him under the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

Mind you, yes Tyson could very easily lose to a UFC guy, cus of the wrestling and martial arts....but can you say this: Is there anybody in the UFC or anywhere else on the planet, hit as hard as a Heavyweight champion in boxing?

Hell in the 90's Tyson still had very fast hands and some head movement, he was still dangerous...myself all it would have took be one punch to stagger the man....but then again, one executed kick to the head or a full-nelson could have ended it as well.

Its all a question of who got to whom first.

Speaking of which....the very first Boxer vs Non-Boxer contest that I can recall reading about was the JOHN L SULLIVAN vs WILLIAM MULDOON contest.

Muldoon was the American Wrestling Champion, and Sullivan was by then the American Bare-knuckle and World Heavyweight champion under the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

Sullivan went into hit Muldoon, and Muldoon picked Sullivan up and slammed him....the Boston crowd went nuts that Muldoon dropped their hometwon hero, and the fight had to be called off.

Tyson imo wouldn't stand a chance.gracie would grab his legs take him to the ground and mike would be lost.submission by armbar.

It's two different sports. Asking Tyson to fight Gracie under rules which favour the latter is like asking a hockey team to play a soccer team on grassturf or vice versa.
It's like comparing a car to a bicycle or a boat to a plane. Each would excel under the conditions they were designed for.
Tyson would beat Gracie in boxing, Gracie would beat Tyson in MMA.
This is not a difficult question to answer.

-KOKid-

It's two different sports. Asking Tyson to fight Gracie under rules which favour the latter is like asking a hockey team to play a soccer team on grassturf or vice versa.
It's like comparing a car to a bicycle or a boat to a plane. Each would excel under the conditions they were designed for.
Tyson would beat Gracie in boxing, Gracie would beat Tyson in MMA.
This is not a difficult question to answer.

-KOKid-

true but gracie is from jiu jitsu and moved to mma when ufc started up,so originally he wasn't a mma fighter.

Helio - Kimura , I dont think they were striking though.

yeah i thought it was without striking.

Helio showed tremendous courage in taking on Kimura. Kimura is unknown to many , but in certain circles he is recognized as a very tough man.

I have known about this guy for years. I recieved my Judo Black Belt from a Japenese hachidan Takayuki Yoshinaga ,he spoke OFTEN of Kimura. Always spoke of Musashi as well. But yeah on occasion I hit the google search too.

In a street fight Gracie would destroy Tyson. Tyson would not last more than 30 seconds

In a cage fight Gracie would destroy Tyson. One again Tyson would not last more than 30 seconds.

In a boxing fight with gloves and no grappling Tyson wins with ease.

In everyday life on the streets you don't have boxing fights, it's no holds barred and consequently Gracie would kick Tyson's ass on the street. Thus making Gracie a FAR harder opponent in real life.

Decagon , I hold the rank of Shodan. Competed in many local tournaments, state and Midwest championships also . The last tournament I fought was the U.S. National Championships in Las Vegas in 2003. I competed in a Masters division I was 42. I didnt medal but I had a decent go of it. Had the honor of fighting a former U.s olympic alternate and the guy who won the World Masters Judo championship at my age and weight that same year. After Boxing a long time I got into Judo. I am not ashamed to say that I had to take beating after beating, before I was able to hang with any of the decent Judoka I trained with. It has humbled me in a big way. Now I teach a pretty good size kids program in the Chicago area . I have a couple good young competitors. Including my two kids.

Decagon wrote:How would Gracie win in a streetfight against Tyson? At least in the cage, he could pull guard, but in his book, Royce specifically said that you never use the guard in a streetfight. The guard is Royce's main weapon, and I seriously doubt he could beat Tyson without it.

Expug, what level are you?

Ask a boxer to fight against a Brazilian Jujitsu expert/master on the street and the Jujitsu expert will have the boxer in a lock in no time. You can be the biggest punching boxer of all time but you'll still get whooped by Gracie. Tyson doesn't have the faintest idea in regards to defending his legs, thus his legs will be taken away from him in no time. Once Gracie gets Tyson on the ground then it will be a total mismatch.

Anyone who thinks Tyson would beat Gracie in a street fight (without weapons) is dillusional.

Tyson would destroy Gracie in boxing, and that's about it.

Thanks for all of these interesting replies, folks. Royce Gracie did fight a pro boxer in the very first UFC. Can't remember his name now, but I believe he was a Light-Heavy. Gracie took him down right away and the boxer did the smart thing and just tapped out.

Expug, are you familiar with the works of Robert W. Smith aka John Gilby? In one of his books he states that if you are going to walk through a bad area and can choose between a Gung Fu man, a Karate man, and a Judoka to accompany you, always take the Judoka.

I think that Judo is often overlooked or underrated in street self-defense. God help the fool who goes into a clinch with a good Judo man. I have often heard a story about how Eddie Machen once got creamed by a well known Judo man at the time named Bill Paul in San Francisco right in front of the famous topless club Carol Doda's. That tale has been around for years, so I don't know how true it really is.

From the pounding Judo guys -and gals- take, they are like shoe leather. For a good Judo fight scene, see Blood On The Sun with James Cagney, himself a Judo man in his day.

this is a similar argument I have w/ a buddy at work who used to box. I used to wrestle and he thinks once he throws a shot Ill drop and that will be that. I say "hell no!" One shot isnt going to deter a wrestler from spralling on you and taking control of your legs. Great point about Judo Dancing Master! Judo and wrestling are very similar in style, both dealing with tie ups and take downs. Also the balance and control displayed by someone proficient in those fighting styles is uncanny. I was no superstar when I wrestled, but I am confident in my ability to take a street fight to the ground and use submission style arm and leg locks to make the other person give up. This is all in hopes that the boxer cant land "the perfect shot".

This is stupid, this is like a baseball team facing a cricket team, ofcourse if its UFC rules the UFC guy would win, if they fight in boxing rules the boxer would win.

Reasons why this comparison is stupid:

In a street fight its really relative, someone like Mayweather who has good reflexes doesn't have ropes or any other proximeties, so can he use his elusiveness to his advantage? I dunno

In UFC rules Mayweather has boxing reflexes which would leave pretty much his feet open and he would probably get his ass kicked.

In boxing he's the best in the world, nuff said.

I personally don't like the advantage because its not fair for both parties, like I said its like a baseball team facing a cricket team

Decagon wrote:You're acting like Mike Tyson has never been in a streetfight before. You're acting like Mike Tyson has never been in jail before. How many real streetfights has Royce Gracie been in? If he's been in 1/3 as many as Mike Tyson has, I'd be surprised.

Its like comparing apples to oranges thats all I'm saying.

Mike's alot dirtier too you have to factor that in a street fight, there are no rules in a street fight. And saying that a boxer has no chance in a street fight is not fair to the boxer. I know crap about UFC, but I think boxing is ten times more fun to watch.

THE DANCING MASTER wrote:Thanks for all of these interesting replies, folks. Royce Gracie did fight a pro boxer in the very first UFC. Can't remember his name now, but I believe he was a Light-Heavy. Gracie took him down right away and the boxer did the smart thing and just tapped out.

Expug, are you familiar with the works of Robert W. Smith aka John Gilby? In one of his books he states that if you are going to walk through a bad area and can choose between a Gung Fu man, a Karate man, and a Judoka to accompany you, always take the Judoka.

I think that Judo is often overlooked or underrated in street self-defense. God help the fool who goes into a clinch with a good Judo man. I have often heard a story about how Eddie Machen once got creamed by a well known Judo man at the time named Bill Paul in San Francisco right in front of the famous topless club Carol Doda's. That tale has been around for years, so I don't know how true it really is.

From the pounding Judo guys -and gals- take, they are like shoe leather. For a good Judo fight scene, see Blood On The Sun with James Cagney, himself a Judo man in his day.

Thanks for that D.M. I have read some of Robert Smiths stuff. Very entertaining . He was fortunate enough to train with some fantastic Judomen also. Johnny Osako being one of them. As far as boxing and grappling goes, I can speak fairly inteligently about the two from experience. After boxing for many years 40 amateur fights and 5 pro fights , I had the idea to get into Judo. I signed up at a traditional Kodokan Judo dojo run by a Japanese sensei . I was one of very few Americans practicing there. It was almost all Russian. They new I was a former boxer and they also knew I had absolutely no Judo knowledge. I got my ass kicked . Practice after Practice week after week , month after month. But I hung in there and I started to learn and return the beatings. Now after fighting in tournaments and countless matches all over the U.S. Becoming a blackbelt and an instructor, I can look back and say that the best things I have learned from these combat sports is how to treat people with respect and dignity. I value the freindships I have made and the stories that go along with all of this. And Im able to have my kids in my kids judo class. I dont know which fighting style is best, there are good and positive techniques in all of them. I am truly amazed at the skill level of some of the boxers and martial artists around these days. Anyway D.M. thanks for your kind words about Judo.... Brian H.

THE DANCING MASTER wrote:Thanks for all of these interesting replies, folks. Royce Gracie did fight a pro boxer in the very first UFC. Can't remember his name now, but I believe he was a Light-Heavy. Gracie took him down right away and the boxer did the smart thing and just tapped out.

It was Art Jimmerson

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=2044

UFC 1 was in about 1993 so judge for yourself how much Art had left by then.

Jimmerson really had no buisness in there. He didnt put up too much fuss either. In fact he wore one boxing glove into the cage.

Decagon wrote:You're acting like Mike Tyson has never been in a streetfight before. You're acting like Mike Tyson has never been in jail before. How many real streetfights has Royce Gracie been in? If he's been in 1/3 as many as Mike Tyson has, I'd be surprised.

Decagon,

What a load of bollocks. I have boxed and i have competed in MMA events and i would have to say, based upon personal opinion and experience that Royce Gracie would beat Mike Tyson in a street fight, quite easily. Tyson might have boxing and punching knowledge, but the art of Gracie-Ju-Jitsu originates from the original teachings of Ju-Jitsu and steetfigting. The boxer that Gracie fought at UFC 1 was submitted in about 35-40 seconds of the contest. Unless Tyson managed to land a great punch, he would get taken to the floor and submitted quite quickly. Tyson has no knowledge of submission martial arts and that would ultimately lead to his downfall.

christ_the_impaler wrote:

Decagon wrote:You're acting like Mike Tyson has never been in a streetfight before. You're acting like Mike Tyson has never been in jail before. How many real streetfights has Royce Gracie been in? If he's been in 1/3 as many as Mike Tyson has, I'd be surprised.

Decagon,

What a load of bollocks. I have boxed and i have competed in MMA events and i would have to say, based upon personal opinion and experience that Royce Gracie would beat Mike Tyson in a street fight, quite easily. Tyson might have boxing and punching knowledge, but the art of Gracie-Ju-Jitsu originates from the original teachings of Ju-Jitsu and steetfigting. The boxer that Gracie fought at UFC 1 was submitted in about 35-40 seconds of the contest. Unless Tyson managed to land a great punch, he would get taken to the floor and submitted quite quickly. Tyson has no knowledge of submission martial arts and that would ultimately lead to his downfall.

Jimmerson is hardly a good comparison as he did not want to be in the cage that night.
He was worried about it going in and when he saw Gerard Gordeau kick Tela Tuli's teeth out of his mouth in the first fight he freaked out.

If you watch the fight again you'll see Jimmerson taps out before Royce Really does anything to him.

It is all documented in that MMA evolution book that came out a few years ago.

expug wrote:Jimmerson really had no buisness in there. He didnt put up too much fuss either. In fact he wore one boxing glove into the cage.

As the UK band Supergrass said.....

"In It For The Money"

Springs to mind.