BoxRec

Well if you think he's credible help yourself to some pretty good entertainment. Oh how he loves to spin a yarrn.

http://www.boxingtalk.com/pag/article7807.html

Pryor would have destroyed Tsyue and I'd give him the edge over Mayweather... I have a lot of respect for the guy and how he's turned his life around and is dealing with having pugilistic dementia... all power to him!...

Decagon, such judgement coming from such a neutral chap.....

Nah my "yarn spinning" is meant in reference to his book. Since he is expressing opinions you have the right to assess his credibility as you will. He's the bible if you see it that way. He's always willing to shoot the breeze.

Tszyu and DLH would have my money in any head to head as I have mentioned in the past, I think he is perhaps one of the most overhyped fighters in history. But I"m not a hater of him any more than I am of Patterson who fits the same profile to my way of thinking. I agree that he seems to have come a ways since his substance abuse days and that is to his personal credit. I lived near Cincinatti during his glory years and saw a few of his fights and kept up with his career before and after his best work.
My opinion of his proffessional capabilities (or lack of) are based on what I read, heard, and saw during that time and of course opinions are quite like anatomical sphincters I suppose. You got em, I got em, The Pope's got em.

Decagon wrote:Tszyu was inconsistent, and he didn't have a very good chin. Most people would pick Pryor over him.

Did Tszyu get KD a lot?

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Tszyu was inconsistent, and he didn't have a very good chin. Most people would pick Pryor over him.

Did Tszyu get KD a lot?

He never fought anyone half as good as Pryor and really its a nonsense to give him a chance against Arron...

silkov wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Tszyu was inconsistent, and he didn't have a very good chin. Most people would pick Pryor over him.

Did Tszyu get KD a lot?

He never fought anyone half as good as Pryor and really its a nonsense to give him a chance against Arron...

I didn’t say he would have had a shot against Pryor, so I have no clue where your comment came from. I was just wondering why Dec thinks Tszyu’s chin wasn’t very good. I only remember him being KD in one fight.

Decagon wrote:Tszyu was inconsistent, and he didn't have a very good chin. Most people would pick Pryor over him.

I don't know about him being inconsistent or having a bad chin, I don't think he was either of those.

But Pryor would overwhelm him.

A lot of people have a lot of faith in Pryor, and believe him to be much more than he was IMHO. He beat Alexis on two different occasions as well as a perfectly timed fight with Cervantes..........How many hall of famers did he beat again? I may have lost count.

And other than Alexis at what point in their careers did he beat these great numerous challengers?

Oh and just how good would the great Aaron Pryor do against Cervantes Prime for Prime? Not good at all my friends...not good at all.

BoxBuzz wrote:A lot of people have a lot of faith in Pryor, and believe him to be much more than he was IMHO. He beat Alexis on two different occasions as well as a perfectly timed fight with Cervantes..........How many hall of famers did he beat again? I may have lost count.

And other than Alexis at what point in their careers did he beat these great numerous challengers?

Oh and just how good would the great Aaron Pryor do against Cervantes Prime for Prime? Not good at all my friends...not good at all.

Why are you such a hater of Pryor?... you dont show him no respect dude!!! :x :x :x

Hmm Silkov I'm truly not a hater, I feel I'm just not falsely adding to his legacy which I think has gone by with many assumptions and somewhat unsubstantiated. I know I"m in the minority but it's just my viewpoint based on what I have read, heard and seen. Nothing more nothing less. There's an old saying that fame comes from "far away" I was in his back yard so perhaps he's just a harder sell for me since I'm so familiar with him. But on the other hand I just may have it right.

But I sort of start with the man he rested the title from who prime for prime was simply far better than Aaron IMHO. And you can argue that the man Cervantes rested the title from was also better than Aaron. Before too long you start finding Aaron in the middle of the pack rather than top dog. This is much the way I feel about Patterson as well whom I genuinely like.

Truly not a hater I just don't share the common appreciation to the same level as others on this forum. Just a minority viewpoint being expressed.

I think his very good performances with Alexis has been blown out of proportion. Sometimes I think Gatti gets appreciation above his technical pay grade for turning in such exciting performances. But exciting performances can be misleading when missapplied to ratings.

BoxBuzz wrote:Hmm Silkov I'm truly not a hater, I feel I'm just not falsely adding to his legacy which I think has gone by with many assumptions and somewhat unsubstantiated. I know I"m in the minority but it's just my viewpoint based on what I have read, heard and seen. Nothing more nothing less. There's an old saying that fame comes from "far away" I was in his back yard so perhaps he's just a harder sell for me since I'm so familiar with him. But on the other hand I just may have it right.

But I sort of start with the man he rested the title from who prime for prime was simply far better than Aaron IMHO. And you can argue that the man Cervantes rested the title from was also better than Aaron. Before too long you start finding Aaron in the middle of the pack rather than top dog. This is much the way I feel about Patterson as well whom I genuinely like.

Truly not a hater I just don't share the common appreciation to the same level as others on this forum. Just a minority viewpoint being expressed.

I think his very good performances with Alexis has been blown out of proportion. Sometimes I think Gatti gets appreciation above his technical pay grade for turning in such exciting performances. But exciting performances can be misleading when missapplied to ratings.

The fact remains that noone else did to Arguello what Pryor did to him and this was a guy who had fought the best in 3 divisions... I actually think Pryor is underrated, as is Arguello... Pryor has his drugs problems and abbreviated prime held against him...

Well how does he stack up in your estimation against the two champions "pryor" to him?

And just beating a world beater is not your ticket to greatness. Ken Norton comes to mind here. Anyway, I'm not trying to change minds I think he turned in some magic on a couple of extremely remarkable fights and countless people have viewed it. His legacy is built on his great moments. If his loss and his draw (gift) were as well viewed as well as a few of his "so so" fights being witnessed it would add balance. OH and Alexis was moving up in weight. Sort of like Bob Foster stepping up and losing to Frazier or Ali, and yet that's not where Joe or Muhammad made their greatest impressions.

Did you know that the Pryor Arguello fights are amoung the most viewed fights in history? It continues to be very good advertizing for the Hawk.

Decagon the only thing I hate are those pretzels that make me thirsty.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well how does he stack up in your estimation against the two champions "pryor" to him?

And just beating a world beater is not your ticket to greatness. Ken Norton comes to mind here. Anyway, I'm not trying to change minds I think he turned in some magic on a couple of extremely remarkable fights and countless people have viewed it. His legacy is built on his great moments. If his loss and his draw (gift) were as well viewed as well as a few of his "so so" fights being witnessed it would add balance. OH and Alexis was moving up in weight. Sort of like Bob Foster stepping up and losing to Frazier or Ali, and yet that's not where Joe or Muhammad made their greatest impressions.

Did you know that the Pryor Arguello fights are amoung the most viewed fights in history? It continues to be very good advertizing for the Hawk.

Well theyre damn good fights... especially the 1st one... would you say that Duran vs Leonard 1 was on a higher level?... I wouldn't, in Pryor vs Arguello you have two great fighters meeting in a great fight, I don't see why both of them shouldn't gain credit for that...

Silkov it's not like you to duck hard questions.....like that first sentence you quoted in your last contribution. But I did notice you did indeed jump to the opportunity to further glorify those great fights we all think so much of.

You do live a long way from Aaron....

fame...distance...hmmm. Is it possible you have succumbed to that trap? We here at boxrec are depending on you to hold on to your objective detachment when making your well respected and award winning assessments.

I don't totally agree with BoxBuzz when it comes to evaluating Prior but I think youre assessment of his abilties was done in good faith and fairly objectivly. It's not like their was any personal attack, like saying he is gay, stupid, a piece of crap, or a bloody wanker. Just that he is a bit overated. I think that's fair.

Well imo he is not overrated, more underrated if anything as their seems to be a lot of people always saying that he is overrated. It depends where you rate him, I rate him as a great fighter whose prime was messed up through drugs etc... I'm not saying that he would have beaten Duran and Leonard because I don't think he would have, but he would have beaten Comatcho and Mancini and I rate him in the top 5 140 fighters of all time above Tsyue, Chavez and Delahoya... all of whom I think he would have beaten...

You always have an interesting take Silkov, but I could have sworn I was almost alone in my opinion of an "overated" Pryor the only other person I could think of was Jaclem who had an even closer geographical connection to him than I did.

And the champions I was trying to get a head to head comparison with was not Leonard or Duran But Cervantes and Loche who were the "pryor" champions in that division.

I don't think Leonard fought in that weight class did he?

At any rate a Prime Cervantes KO's him and a Prime Loche Outpoints him 3 out of 3 in on my scorecard.

Pryor was the first to get truly great Jr Welter TV coverage in two remarkable fights with Alexis and that has left an indelible impression with the public. OK I can see the fact that I spend so much time on this gives people the impression I have an axe to grind. But it's simply more along the lines that I am very aware of his weaknesses and his strengths and feel I have something to share. Both before and after those great fights with Alexis he showed another side and I got to see it and took the time to read all the analysis that was going on at the time. I think I add informed balance to the subject....not one sided rantings. But perhaps I'll quiet down on this issue.

BoxBuzz wrote:You always have an interesting take Silkov, but I could have sworn I was almost alone in my opinion of an "overated" Pryor the only other person I could think of was Jaclem who had an even closer geographical connection to him than I did.

And the champions I was trying to get a head to head comparison with was not Leonard or Duran But Cervantes and Loche who were the "pryor" champions in that division.

I don't think Leonard fought in that weight class did he?

At any rate a Prime Cervantes KO's him and a Prime Loche Outpoints him 3 out of 3 in on my scorecard.

Pryor was the first to get truly great Jr Welter TV coverage in two remarkable fights with Alexis and that has left an indelible impression with the public. OK I can see the fact that I spend so much time on this gives people the impression I have an axe to grind. But it's simply more along the lines that I am very aware of his weaknesses and his strengths and feel I have something to share. Both before and after those great fights with Alexis he showed another side and I got to see it and took the time to read all the analysis that was going on at the time. I think I add informed balance to the subject....not one sided rantings. But perhaps I'll quiet down on this issue.

I think your playing too much attention to the knockdowns against Kameda and Cervantes... Pryor could be reckless but I think his knockdowns were more a case pf him being caught off balance than him really being hurt. I agree Cervantes would have been a tougher fight a few years previously but Pryors speed and pressure would still give him the edge imo... he was hardly shot against Pryor. I know Leonard was a Welter but mentioned him in the context of where I think Pryor stood pound for pound in his era...

silkov wrote:Well imo he is not overrated, more underrated if anything as their seems to be a lot of people always saying that he is overrated. It depends where you rate him, I rate him as a great fighter whose prime was messed up through drugs etc... I'm not saying that he would have beaten Duran and Leonard because I don't think he would have, but he would have beaten Comatcho and Mancini and I rate him in the top 5 140 fighters of all time above Tsyue, Chavez and Delahoya... all of whom I think he would have beaten...

Just out of curiousity what is your top five then?

wow...if you don't think Cervantes was shot when he fought Pryor....I'm speechless. I mean he was still a good fighter but he was ripe for picking, way past his prime. Pryor was certainly not the only guy who would have beat him on that day.

BoxBuzz wrote:wow...if you don't think Cervantes was shot when he fought Pryor....I'm speechless. I mean he was still a good fighter but he was ripe for picking, way past his prime. Pryor was certainly not the only guy who would have beat him on that day.

He wasnt shot, he'd recently beaten Asprilla who was a decent fighter... Cervantes was a simualr type of boxer to Mike Mccallum... and seemed to go on forever... shot is when a guy is basically washed up Cervantes would probably have kept the title for another two years had he not ran into Pryor. I've got earlier fights of Cervantes vs Locche and Benitez...

Well the word simply needs defining....so your of the opinion that Aaron was the only guy who could get the job done at the time. Chalk that up to a simple disagree. Cervantes was in a different league as was Loche to my way of thinking. Prime for Prime.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well the word simply needs defining....so your of the opinion that Aaron was the only guy who could get the job done at the time. Chalk that up to a simple disagree. Cervantes was in a different league as was Loche to my way of thinking. Prime for Prime.

Well thats where we disagree... I certainly wouldn't put Cervantes in a different league... I could see him giving Pryor a very tough fight in his prime and perhaps a close decision but I think Pryors nonstop style and speed would give him a decent edge even with a prime Cervantes... boxers like Cervantes often have trouble with fighters with Pryors style because they get smothered and are unable to use their skills...
I think also Pryors workrate would be too high for Loche too... I think Benitez would be the hardest fight for Pryor out of the top guys from that era...

The first 3 years Chavez was at Jr weltrerweight he would have beaten prime Pryor. Chavez had the better chin, better close range defense and worked the body better. Chavez's stamina was just as good as Pryors.
Chavez would have masterfully cut off the ring, forced Pryor to trade and dissected him over 11 brutal rounds.