BoxRec

I dedicated today to "prime larry holmes day". i watched 5 of holmes fights in his prime.


the biggest thing i was astonished by was his punching technique. he threw incredibly straight punches, perfect technique. ive never seen such straight punches by a heavyweight in my life. it seems rich giachetti really schooled holmes well. whats ur opinion on this?

For power punches, Tyson's technique was even better.

Holmes had an outstanding jab, probably one of the best in heavyweight history.

Another aspect of Holmes technique was the way he was able to put combinations together.

kick asner wrote:Another aspect of Holmes technique was the way he was able to put combinations together.

Are you trying to be funny?

I assume you think not so why don't you just say what you mean.

Holmes was not a good combination puncher.

Holmes is a great fighter and one of my favorite.

But...I don't think he was a great combination puncher.

Sometimes his jab kept him from creating because he would do it off his left foot.

Holmes didn't use combinations as much as say Ali, but he didn't need to... he had a better, stronger jab than Ali, and his right hand was a good punch too... Holmes had great accuracy and made every punch he threw count.... he certainly had probably the best jab I've seen on any fighter during his prime...
Glad to see Brock that you're appreciating Holmes more...

Technically Holmes was probably a better boxer than Ali... his defense relied less on his reflexes and he took less risks than Ali... Holmes certainly learned a lot from his time working with Ali....

Silkov I can abide by your assessment of Holmes having an edge in "demonstrated" technical perfection since you have already ceded the point that Ali had better and faster reflexes. However I'm thinking that Ali had the ability and the skill to box more perfectly and on occasion did so, but chose based on his natural talent (and vanity) to forgo some of those "perfect" rules.

Just take a couple of his fights as an example, say the Cooney fight. Snipes was another one who he knocked out using combinations. In the last round in both of those fights he finished them off with a flurry of punches. He didn't really have the big right had to knock a guy out with one punch, and his jab couldn't do it alone, I don't remember him using a body attack, so he had to string a few punches together. Another fight that comes to mind I remember him hitting Norton with some nice combinations.

I've never seen such an effective jab as Holmes in my life. It wasn't a range finder at all, he threw that thing with intentions to hurt the other person time and time again with it. The best I can come up with today is J Taylor's jab is the same type of punch. Enough to keep people at bay, but can also be quite an offensive weapon that it does damage.

Marvelous Marvin Hagler's jab was every bit as good as Holmes', with a bit of extra power.

DoubleM wrote:Marvelous Marvin Hagler's jab was every bit as good as Holmes', with a bit of extra power.

that wasn't a jab...that was a straight right..haha. Hagler's was good but it didn't carry the snap Holmes' did.

Mattyp151 wrote:

DoubleM wrote:Marvelous Marvin Hagler's jab was every bit as good as Holmes', with a bit of extra power.

that wasn't a jab...that was a straight right..haha. Hagler's was good but it didn't carry the snap Holmes' did.

Sure about that? Hagler's jab was very snappy. Check out the way he cuts up Alan Minter with it in the first round, or dismantles Tony Sibson. The first round of the first Hamsho fight is a clinic on effective jabbing - nearly thirty land in just the last two minutes alone.

BoxBuzz wrote:Silkov I can abide by your assessment of Holmes having an edge in "demonstrated" technical perfection since you have already ceded the point that Ali had better and faster reflexes. However I'm thinking that Ali had the ability and the skill to box more perfectly and on occasion did so, but chose based on his natural talent (and vanity) to forgo some of those "perfect" rules.

Yes, you seem to have read my mind. Obviously Ali was far more than just his technical skills... much of what made him great were his mental attitude and spirit... though Holmes wasn't weak in those departments either. Certainly the peak Ali of the mid-late 60s was faster than Holmes... and unlike with Holmes we never got to see Ali really in his prime...

kick asner wrote:Just take a couple of his fights as an example, say the Cooney fight. Snipes was another one who he knocked out using combinations. In the last round in both of those fights he finished them off with a flurry of punches. He didn't really have the big right had to knock a guy out with one punch, and his jab couldn't do it alone, I don't remember him using a body attack, so he had to string a few punches together. Another fight that comes to mind I remember him hitting Norton with some nice combinations.

I'm not saying Holmes never used combination punches.

I'm just saying that wasn't one of his strengths.

His combinations where usually like double jabs, jab then a right hand or jab then uppercut.

Stuff like that.

Holmes was an all time great, a true legend of the ring and I disagree with some people who say Holmes wasnt a great combination puncher. Holmes though was not a combo puncher for example like Holyfield but in the Snipes fight, Leon Spinks and Shavers II he showed good combination punching stopping both Spinks and Snipes on multiple punches and nearly KO'ed Shavers in round 9 from a furious storm of right hooks and uppercuts.

And I agree with Brockton, Holmes threw flawless straight punches and his fights with Cooney, Ocasio, Berbick showed his talents of getting home his straight right.

Grimm wrote:

kick asner wrote:Just take a couple of his fights as an example, say the Cooney fight. Snipes was another one who he knocked out using combinations. In the last round in both of those fights he finished them off with a flurry of punches. He didn't really have the big right had to knock a guy out with one punch, and his jab couldn't do it alone, I don't remember him using a body attack, so he had to string a few punches together. Another fight that comes to mind I remember him hitting Norton with some nice combinations.

I'm not saying Holmes never used combination punches.

I'm just saying that wasn't one of his strengths.

His combinations where usually like double jabs, jab then a right hand or jab then uppercut.

Stuff like that.

Another thing is I am going by memory as I don't own a Holmes greatest fights dvd so I don't want to be to over zealous in my argument in the event my memory isn't as good as I thought. You know how it goes the years can cloud the memory, but in my original post I just had the picture in my mind of Holmes taking Cooney out with some sharp quick combos.

Holmes would usually let loose with combos when he had his opponent hurt... he was a very good finisher...

silkov wrote:Holmes would usually let loose with combos when he had his opponent hurt... he was a very good finisher...

That's what your supposed to do when an opponent is hurt.

Now what would be suprising is if he just stood there and jabbed instead of trying to take him out.

Grimm wrote:

silkov wrote:Holmes would usually let loose with combos when he had his opponent hurt... he was a very good finisher...

That's what your supposed to do when an opponent is hurt.

Now what would be suprising is if he just stood there and jabbed instead of trying to take him out.

Yes but fighters vary as to how good finishers they are as you should know... I think Holmes was very good when he got someone hurt... better than many other fighters... whats your point anyway??...

silkov wrote:

Grimm wrote:

silkov wrote:Holmes would usually let loose with combos when he had his opponent hurt... he was a very good finisher...

That's what your supposed to do when an opponent is hurt.

Now what would be suprising is if he just stood there and jabbed instead of trying to take him out.

Yes but fighters vary as to how good finishers they are as you should know... I think Holmes was very good when he got someone hurt... better than many other fighters... whats your point anyway??...

My point is that Kick asner is going on about how Holmes took Cooney out with combination punches, and I am saying that does not make him a good combination puncher just because he can finish people with combo's.

Good (great) combination puncher = Roberto Duran. The lightweight Duran didn't just throw in combination when he had a man hurt, but all throughout the fight. His fighting style was based on avoiding a punch, then firing back with three or four. His assaults varied from body to head, involved every type of punch, and could be initiated or thrown as a counter move.