BoxRec

OK Expug, Nero, Martin and Ezzard, I decided to start this thread with you guys in mind. So to start things off, this an excerpt from Book 1 of Studs Lonigan (Young Lonigan) It's the year 1916 and the narrator is describing how the father of Stud's buddy Johnny O'Brien was recalling a number old time fighters.

"And he spoke of the trolley parties and picnics of yore, and the dances and prize fights at Tattersalls. All the kids used to sneak in. They had a million ways of crashing the gate. One of their tricks was to bribe a stable man to let them in through the stables. Well one night during a big fight, all the lights in the place went out and the management had to give tickets for the next night. Well, you should have seen the crowd that came. Every newsboy and teamster in town must have had a five-dollar ringside seat. And of all the old fighters he'd seen in action, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jimmy Britt, Jim Jeffries, Gentleman Jim Corbett, who could wiggle a mean tongue, and don't think old Gentleman Jim didn't know how to curse. Terrible Terry McGovern, ah, there was a sweet fighting harp for you, a real fighting turkey with dynamite in each mitt and a fighting heart that only an Irishman could own. Young Corbett, who was born with a horse shoe in his hands and a four leaf clover in his hair, and who put a jinx on Terrible Terry; Benny Yanger, the Tipton Slasher whom old man O'Brien knew personally; Stanley Ketchell who didn't know when the quit fighting even when he had a gun jammed against him; Joe Wolcott, Dixon, Joe Gans, Young Griffo, the most scientific fighter of all times with maybe the exception of Nonpareil Jack Dempsey, who came before Mr. O'Brien's time; Tom Sharkey-all of them old boys. They didn't have fighters like that nowdays. None of 'em were no-fight champions like Jess Willard, and most of them were real Irish, lads who'd bless themselves before they fought; they weren't fake Irish like most of the present-day dagoes and wops and sheenies who took Hibernian names. None of them were no-fight champions like Jess Willard, the big elephant. Why, an old timer like Philadelphia Jack O'Brien or Kid McCoy could have spotted the big elephant all his blubber and laid him low in a round. Now, McCoy was the trickiest fighter that ever lived. He had a brain and a corkscrew punch that made the big boys see stars once it landed. Once he was fighting some big bloke, and he suddenly pointed down and told the big ham his shoe laces were untied. The ham looked down, and the old corkscrew snapped across, and the big bum was rolling in the resin; and another time, McCoy pointed to the gallery, and the big dummy he was fighting looked up, and the old corkscrewright went over and the dummy started trilling to the daisies"

Thanks for that Seamus. Farrell was a huge fight fan, obviously he wasnt real keen on Willard.You have inspired me to read the trilogy again. Its been 25 years. Thanks again.

Some great language and phrases they used in older times. Love it

Thanks guys. Now to some comments on that segment. First off, it's interesting, since this is very likely based on a real memory of Farrell's, that Johnny O'Brien's father believes that Young Corbett is actually an Irishman. To the best of my knowledge, he wasen't, and there is that mention of him calling Terry McGovern an Irish Rat before there fight. Makes me wonder if there was a long standing perception that Corbett was Irish.

Another thing that recently dawned on me, is that after having read just about everything Farrell ever wrote about Chicago, the most shocking ommission (unless I missed it) is the name of Packey McFarland. Strange that Farrell would mention Jimmy Britt and Benny Yanger, a couple of guys Packey knocked out, but not Packey. Especially when you consider that he was a world class boxer and also a South Side Irishman. In fact before moving to Joliet, Packey even lived on Garfield Blvd a couple blocks from Farrell's neighborhood.

Farrell's first love was baseball (his Baseball book is excellent) and a friend said that Jimmy only became a writer because the White Sox didn't sign him. After that I'd say it was boxing as his second favorite, football in third, and basketball fourth.

very good reading thank you.

I found that strange also, the ommision of Mcfarland. I seem to recall Farrell mentioning the old Lightweight champ Rocky Kansas in the book also.

Expug

Actually it's not Rocky Kansas the boxer, but rather one of the gang from 58th-St who's nicknamed after the boxer. There's also a Young Rocky. Talk about the popularity of boxing in the early 1920's.

Yes ,I remember now. I liked some of the expressions used to describe fighting used in that book like " givin him the clouts ' I think was one of them.

This is amazing, I'm doing a sort of refresher of Studs Lonigan, and in a little over 100 pages, Farrell has already named 19 fighters !!! Jack Johnson and Freddie Welsh were named in addition to the ones mentioned in that previous piece I posted. Has to be an all time record.

I beleve back then it was boxing and baseball at the pro level. I would venture to say that even though Farrell mentions so many champs and well known fighters of the era, he was probably following himself the careers of all kinds of neighborhood guys who never quite made it.

Another really revealing paragraph from one of the 58th-St gang.

"Swan spilled some gab about the races. Then he told of what he had seen at the Johnson-Willard and Willard-Moran fights. He said that Willard was a ham, and that Fred Fulton would mow him down if they ever got yellow Willard in the same ring with the Minnesotan. Studs said the Irishman Jim Coffey was pretty good. Swan said he was a cheese. He said the best of them all, better than Fulton even, was Gunboat Smith who had the frog, Carpentier licked that time in London or Paris or wherever they fought".

Amazing how despite knocking out Jack Johnson, Jess Willard appears to have been surprisingly unpopular in white working class communities. That's also a total now of 24 fighters mentioned by name already.

young lonigan...had a major effect on my own young life....and i've read the trilogy several times..but not in a while.

farrel was writing about how his characters felt about the fighters, especially willard. i think stud's father referred to willard as " a quitter"..which was a common perception after the denmpsey fight. really ridiculous when you see the terrible beating willard took in the first round, but came out for two more until he just couldn't do it again.

crazy and unfair...but willard was the first heavyweight champion to lose his title by "quitting" in his corner...and that was the main reason he was so derided.

Jaclem wrote:young lonigan...had a major effect on my own young life....and i've read the trilogy several times..but not in a while.

farrel was writing about how his characters felt about the fighters, especially willard. i think stud's father referred to willard as " a quitter"..which was a common perception after the denmpsey fight. really ridiculous when you see the terrible beating willard took in the first round, but came out for two more until he just couldn't do it again.

crazy and unfair...but willard was the first heavyweight champion to lose his title by "quitting" in his corner...and that was the main reason he was so derided.

Willard received one of the worst legal beating ever. Anyone that thought he was a quitter was obviously not taking the thunderbolts disguised as punches that night

The damage he suffered was tremendous I think he lost a few teeth , busted cheek bone , etc.

In the book, remember it's still 1916, Jack Dempsey is still pretty much an unknown, and so Willard's unpopularity is based upon his inactivity (top fighters were expected to be in the ring every month or two) and the fact that he was over 6-6. Obviously the public's perception back then was that a fighter the seize of Willard should be cleaning out the division instead of going long periods between bouts.

Seamus, how a wonderful idea!

As all we love B&B (Books and Boxing), I put here this poem of Carl Sandburg (1878-1967); his first book is to considered the best: Chicago Poems (1928). He win the Pulitzer Prize twice. In this poem, he united the art, the boxing and Chicago; enjoy it!


C H I C A G O


Hog Butcher for the World,
Tool Maker Stacker of Wheat,
Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;
Stormy, husky, brawling,
City of the Big Shoulders:
They tell me you are wicked and I believe them, for I have seen your painted women under the gas lamps luring the farm boys.
And they tell me you are crooked and I answer: Yes, it is true I have seen the gunman jill and go free to kill again.
And they tell me you are brutal and my reply is: On the faces of women and children I have seen the marks of wanton hunger.
And having answered so I turn once more to those who sneer at this my city, and I give them back the sneer and say to them:
Come and show me another city with lifted head singing so proud to be alive and coarse and strong and cunning.
Flinging magnetic curses amid the toil of piling job on job, here is a tall bold slugger set vivid against the little soft cities;
Fierce as a dog with tongue lapping for action, cunning as a savage pitted against the wilderness,
Bareheaded,
Shoveling,
Wrecking,
Planning,
Building, breaking, rebuilding.
Under the smoke, dust all over his mouth, laughing with white teeth,
Under the terrible burden of destiny laughing as a young man laughs,
Laughing even as an ignorant fighter laughs who has never lost a battle,
Bragging and laughing that under his wrist is the pulse, and under his ribs the heart of the people,
Laughing!
Laughing the stormy, husky, brawling laughter of Youth, half-naked, sweating, proud to be Hog Butcher,
Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat, Player with Railroads and Freight Handler to the Nation

Martin

We still have railroad tracks everywhere in Chicago, like few cities in the USA, but the Stockyards closed in 1971, and as for being a toolmaker, hardly a trace remains of the two huge International Harvester plants, and as for the steel industry, US Steel, Wisconsin Steel, Republic, and several others went down for the count in the 1980's.

Tomorrow I'll try to post some excerpts from Nelson Algren's boxing oriented novel "Never Come Morning". Definitely worth reading, Ezzard, Nero, Expug. Martin and the rest.

Some excerpts from Nelson Algren's powerful 1942 Chicago based drama "Never Come Morning".

"I ain't through Barber. You get me on again 'n change my name, like they done fer Johnny Paycheck, 'n I'll win thirty three straight fer you."

"Finger squeezed Bruno's ribs with his free hand. "Not an ounce o' fat on him, Casey," he advised professionally. "He'll be the seize of Jeffries."

"You got to keep in shape more though," Finger suggested cautiously, "You get yourself trued up, 'n lay off that Polish pop by Rostenkowski's, 'n you'll ice that boogie for sure." He nudged Bruno familiarly. "Then the Collyseum fer us, kid-LEFTY BICEPS MATCHED WITH BILLY CONN ! WINNER TO GET LOUIS BOUT ! How's that sound , Left' ?"

"BRUNO LEFTY BICEPS BATTERS LOUIS TO FLOOR ! CHAMPION RUNS OUT ON RE-MATCH !" Finger bawled above the traffic's howling. It took another minute for Bruno to digest that.

"But maybe I ought t' change my name before then,' he reflected aloud, "to somethin' like 'Stanley Ketchel Second.' He was a Polack too."

Seamus , were there some boxing references in Algrens Chicago : City on The Make?.

I'll have to get back to you on that one. I know City On The Make deals with the Black Sox scandal, but don't know if it covers boxing.

Not to change course too much here , but has anyone read Leonard Gardners Fat City. I have seen the movie and I think its one of the best boxing flicks ever but I cant find the book anywhere.

No, that's not changing the subject. Didn't see the movie, but I liked The Boxer, with Daniel Day Lewis.

Lewis did a great job. Barry mcguigan trained him for the role and Lewis learned well.

expug wrote:Not to change course too much here , but has anyone read Leonard Gardners Fat City. I have seen the movie and I think its one of the best boxing flicks ever but I cant find the book anywhere.

bump

The great Argentinian writer Eduardo Mallea was University boxing champion in the '20. His first works, in the principal daily of the country, "La Nación", was as sport journalist. He was many times nominated for the Nobel prize