Bigzabs Dream Caretaker Heavyweight Tourney.
Posted: 22 May 2006, 08:26
Big thanks to Jezzamundo, great idea to do a dream heavyweight tournament. I enjoyed it.
Now allow me to steal your idea and have some fun with it. I am going to pick 8 heavies who you can consider 'caretakers'. They either held the title between two surefire greats or were outstanding in a period which did not have a surefire ATG.
I have thought about this on and off for a while now, and it's tricky to single out a fighter as 'caretaker' or 'borderline great'.
You got fighters like Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney, who I would have expected to include in this. But I decided not to, because I think they did more at lower weights where both could easily be considered All Timers. So it's striclty Heavyweight borderliners. Not lower weight greats who came up to be good heavies.
I had Tommy Burns on the list at first, but I dropped the idea. He is just too small, in my opinion, to match interestingly with bigger, more modern fighters.
This is the list i decided on :
Jess Willard - almost excluded on similar grounds to Burns, but his size makes him an interesting proposition. This could be the definition of caretaker, there is no more clearcut example of a less than great bridging a gap between two legendary fighters.
Jack Sharkey - Picked this guy ahead of Carnera, Baer and Schmeling. Schmeling just slightly too good to be in this category, due to his destructuion of Louis. Baer inconsistant, and Carnera just not good enough. I have to admit that there is an element of subjectivity here, I like Sharkey and believe that he is underrated by many people, while his skill is always talked about. Volatile character makes for interesting fights too. Call it a personal pick.
Jersey Joe Walcott - Easy choice. Not on the level of Louis or Marciano, according to most, but would give any heavyweight of any day a good fight.
Floyd Patterson - Again, easy pick. Will never live with the big guns of the heavyweight division but hit hard and fast enough to be a factor in this company.
Ken Norton - No explanation needed.
Tim Witherspoon - Might surprise some people, but as I rate Holmes so highly, I thought that I needed to include one good heavyweight from the eighties here, and Witherspoon seems to be the perfect choice. Was an underacheiver in the eighties (while winning two alpha's) but remained competitive well into the 90's, where he deserved a shot at one of the elite fighters but never got it.
Number 8 is proving a hard choice, obviously has to be someone from late 80's early 90's, as I don't think that i have missed anyone out from previous era's.
I considered Micheal Spinks, I think that most people rate him as a heavyweight overall, but i am in two minds wether he acheived enough after the two Holmes fights, which in themselves you could say were questionable. Micheal Moorer, John Ruiz, Hasim Rahman, David Tua and Vitali Klitschko all under consideration, but I will have to go away and think about this at work. Decision to be made by tomorrow.
Format will be same as Jezza's dream, but I won't bother with points. Each fighter to fight 2 15 round matches with each other and the top fighter to be decided on w-l-d (ko). Where two fighters have identical records, head to head will be the deciding factor. If they still can't be split, head to head results against the fighter ranked immediately below the two tied will come into play.
I will do a round by round for the first match between each fighter, but won't bother for the rematch unless i deem it is sufficiently competitive.
Will post my choice for no.8 in the next 24, if anyone is interested enough in this madness, i would appreciate some help, but schedule will be posted soon and then I will get down to serious business of fights.
Now allow me to steal your idea and have some fun with it. I am going to pick 8 heavies who you can consider 'caretakers'. They either held the title between two surefire greats or were outstanding in a period which did not have a surefire ATG.
I have thought about this on and off for a while now, and it's tricky to single out a fighter as 'caretaker' or 'borderline great'.
You got fighters like Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney, who I would have expected to include in this. But I decided not to, because I think they did more at lower weights where both could easily be considered All Timers. So it's striclty Heavyweight borderliners. Not lower weight greats who came up to be good heavies.
I had Tommy Burns on the list at first, but I dropped the idea. He is just too small, in my opinion, to match interestingly with bigger, more modern fighters.
This is the list i decided on :
Jess Willard - almost excluded on similar grounds to Burns, but his size makes him an interesting proposition. This could be the definition of caretaker, there is no more clearcut example of a less than great bridging a gap between two legendary fighters.
Jack Sharkey - Picked this guy ahead of Carnera, Baer and Schmeling. Schmeling just slightly too good to be in this category, due to his destructuion of Louis. Baer inconsistant, and Carnera just not good enough. I have to admit that there is an element of subjectivity here, I like Sharkey and believe that he is underrated by many people, while his skill is always talked about. Volatile character makes for interesting fights too. Call it a personal pick.
Jersey Joe Walcott - Easy choice. Not on the level of Louis or Marciano, according to most, but would give any heavyweight of any day a good fight.
Floyd Patterson - Again, easy pick. Will never live with the big guns of the heavyweight division but hit hard and fast enough to be a factor in this company.
Ken Norton - No explanation needed.
Tim Witherspoon - Might surprise some people, but as I rate Holmes so highly, I thought that I needed to include one good heavyweight from the eighties here, and Witherspoon seems to be the perfect choice. Was an underacheiver in the eighties (while winning two alpha's) but remained competitive well into the 90's, where he deserved a shot at one of the elite fighters but never got it.
Number 8 is proving a hard choice, obviously has to be someone from late 80's early 90's, as I don't think that i have missed anyone out from previous era's.
I considered Micheal Spinks, I think that most people rate him as a heavyweight overall, but i am in two minds wether he acheived enough after the two Holmes fights, which in themselves you could say were questionable. Micheal Moorer, John Ruiz, Hasim Rahman, David Tua and Vitali Klitschko all under consideration, but I will have to go away and think about this at work. Decision to be made by tomorrow.
Format will be same as Jezza's dream, but I won't bother with points. Each fighter to fight 2 15 round matches with each other and the top fighter to be decided on w-l-d (ko). Where two fighters have identical records, head to head will be the deciding factor. If they still can't be split, head to head results against the fighter ranked immediately below the two tied will come into play.
I will do a round by round for the first match between each fighter, but won't bother for the rematch unless i deem it is sufficiently competitive.
Will post my choice for no.8 in the next 24, if anyone is interested enough in this madness, i would appreciate some help, but schedule will be posted soon and then I will get down to serious business of fights.
why dont you relax Brockton, I was joking.